You're making a good case for FFG to create a Missile Boat, but wrecking the argument for us to get a Gunboat. X-Wing Miniatures already has a multi-role starfighter. In game terms, the Defender already fills what would be the gunboat's role: "hyperdrive, ion cannons, AND missile pods." in the same vein as the X-Wing (i.e. multipurpose fighter-to-fighter combat that can be flexible enough to assault capital ships). The Defender already does all of this. You can't increase the hull and decrease the agility and expect that to be reason enough for a brand new model. It will either replace the Defender entirely, or the Defender will still be good enough that the Gunboat has no purpose. It really does need a niche. As you outlined, the Missile Boat definitely has this niche. And since I like the Gunboat more than the Missile Boat, I decided to borrow some elements that would help justify the existence of a gunboat at all. I may be a little liberal in my implementation of the gunboat, but no more than FFG in their implementation of the SLAM (on a Rebel ship even--the K-Wing no less!--giving it no relationship to missile or torpedo launching [when its whole purpose was to make missiles and torpedos cause more damage]).

Slamming... I mean SLAMming really worked well with space bombs, but also allowed for flying into a formation and unloading missiles on entire squadrons.

The Z-95 Headhunter is literally an older and less powerful version of the X-Wing. And yet the differences in points and pilot abilities means they're used in different ways. FFG still released the Z-95 with this in mind so it shouldn't be an issue for the Gunboat.

The purpose of the SLAM in-universe was to allow the MB to break contact with the enemy due to poor handling and armament in a dogfight. After sufficient distance was achieved, it could stop, turn around, and start firing missiles again. FFG had to include warheads in the weapons disabling aspect of the SLAM as there was no easy way to say you could launch a torpedo or missile but not fire a turret. The card at least tries to fit the fluff.

So I have to 100% disagree with your justification for merging the 2 ships.

Uh, they could have said 'weapons disabled token prevents primary weapon attacks and all secondary weapon attacks except (torpedo) and (missile) attacks.'

yeah, too hard to include that on a rule card

We will not be deterred.

Let the Gunboat flow through you

12 hours ago, Ziusdra said:

You're making a good case for FFG to create a Missile Boat, but wrecking the argument for us to get a Gunboat. X-Wing Miniatures already has a multi-role starfighter. In game terms, the Defender already fills what would be the gunboat's role: "hyperdrive, ion cannons, AND missile pods." in the same vein as the X-Wing (i.e. multipurpose fighter-to-fighter combat that can be flexible enough to assault capital ships). The Defender already does all of this...

Not really. After all, how often do we see TIE Defenders use their missile slot or even their cannon slot in the game right now? Hardly ever. Corner case TIE/d Vessery builds aside, Defenders are almost exclusively toting the TIE/x7 title and being used as hyper-fast token stackers. And they're expensive. Fast, agile, expensive and rely on their primary to do damage. Which is pretty much the polar opposite of what the Gunboat would be.

1 hour ago, FTS Gecko said:

Not really. After all, how often do we see TIE Defenders use their missile slot or even their cannon slot in the game right now? Hardly ever. Corner case TIE/d Vessery builds aside, Defenders are almost exclusively toting the TIE/x7 title and being used as hyper-fast token stackers. And they're expensive. Fast, agile, expensive and rely on their primary to do damage. Which is pretty much the polar opposite of what the Gunboat would be.

It is exactly what the Defender did in most PC missions tho, zooming in and blowing away huge numbers of fighters like some crazy space shark. Rarely did the ions and missiles come into play unless a capital ship needed it's guns stripped.

If I was statting a Gunboat

3 attack

2 evasion

4 hull

2 shield (as per lore, should be 3, it's rated x2 better than an XWing)

Firespray dial

target lock, focus

2 missiles 1 torp 1 bomb (maybe) with elites and mods at higher PS

3 titles

1 that increased gunnery by 1 but if you hit with a primary you could decrease damage by 1 and give target an ion token

1 that added boost (maybe add a bomb too, but then no bomb on ship without this title)

1 unique title that added a tech slot and a crew slot

high PS skills

1 that could basically have gunners ability

1 that can barrel roll at end of activation phase

1 that can take torps in its missile slot

17 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

Uh, they could have said 'weapons disabled token prevents primary weapon attacks and all secondary weapon attacks except (torpedo) and (missile) attacks.'

yeah, too hard to include that on a rule card

OK, way to gloss over the rest of my points to conveniently maintain your own.

Besides the X-Wing and the Z-95, I'd add the TAP to the TIE/I and in a loose sense the Protectorate and the Kihraxzyzyzxyzx. FFG is going to rapidly run out of ways to make each release a special snowflake in the game. There's going to be overlap and the minor differences in cost and pilot/ship abilities is what will allow them to be used in different ways than their doppelgangers.

Still totally invalidates merging the Gunboat and the Missile Boat together.

I see people defending the Gunboat to be released with crew, turret, 3 attack dice, SLAM, boost (WTF?)... you are no true followers of the Cult of the Gunboat! Burn the heretics!!

4 hours ago, Odanan said:

I see people defending the Gunboat to be released with crew, turret, 3 attack dice, SLAM, boost (WTF?)... you are no true followers of the Cult of the Gunboat! Burn the heretics!!

Indeed. I'm all for healthy discussion, but heresy is heresy!

Wait, woah. You're telling me that a Gunboat should have weaker attack than an XWing?! But instead should hit like a TIE?!! You cannot have flown the same thing I did and think that.

3 attack is truth

Making primary weapon attacks with the Gunboat is heresy.

While it is true that flying through A-Wings was a much more satisfying method of destroying them, one must remember that the Gunboat only has 2 lasers and I don't believe TIE Fighter even had different weapon power levels for different ships. Don't think of it as being as weak as a TIE Fighter's primary attack, think of it as being as strong as a TIE Advanced's.

5 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

Indeed. I'm all for healthy discussion, but heresy is heresy!

Unless it's healthy discussion about combining the Gunboat and Missileboat it seems......

5 hours ago, Lobokai said:

Wait, woah. You're telling me that a Gunboat should have weaker attack than an XWing?! But instead should hit like a TIE?!! You cannot have flown the same thing I did and think that.

3 attack is truth

I remember being terrified of flying against Gunboats in the original X wing, tanky as hell and dangerous to try and just fly straight at, 3 attack dice for me.

The Gunboat has 2 medium laser cannons. This would be 2 attack dice.
Role-wise it could be the empires B-Wing.
The standard version of the B-Wing das not feature laser cannons, but Autoblasters, one heavy laser and ion cannons.

Had they made the canon standard version of the B-Wing it would had 0 attack dice and 3 cannon slots.

Following this logic you could give the Gunboat 3 attack dice and an ion effect via title.

Or even more fancy: 2 attack dice and a cannon slot. And a title that cancels damage restrictions for equipped cannons
- so you fire with ion cannons and the defender suffers all hits and crits + ion token, not only one hit and an ion token.

2 hours ago, Ashley said:

I remember being terrified of flying against Gunboats in the original X wing, tanky as hell and dangerous to try and just fly straight at, 3 attack dice for me.

They were terrifying because you couldn't kill them in the trade (tanky), not because of the firepower of their lasers.

Gunboats in the X-Wing games were (very) dangerous because of their missiles, not because of the puny lasers.

2 attack dice is the most accurate you can get. It will keep the ship cheap and allow you to bring ordinance and/or cannon. We don't need another TIE Defender - we need a highly customizable (and cheap) multi-role ship that will fit our needs.

52 minutes ago, Odanan said:

They were terrifying because you couldn't kill them in the trade (tanky), not because of the firepower of their lasers.

Gunboats in the X-Wing games were (very) dangerous because of their missiles, not because of the puny lasers.

2 attack dice is the most accurate you can get. It will keep the ship cheap and allow you to bring ordinance and/or cannon. We don't need another TIE Defender - we need a highly customizable (and cheap) multi-role ship that will fit our needs.

Well I bow to your better memory, I have not played X wing since 1993.

I alwys remember coming off much worse in a straight up joust, don't remember the missiles though.

i have to say the Imperial reinforcement card is a must for the Gunboat, or something similar.

@Odanan I could roll with your build if linking in ion cannons did +1 damage and a token. Bc linking those cannons is exactly what I'm talking about when saying it had fearsome firepower (did anyone not shoot it this way)? No way all that extra power from a !cannon! shouldn't have some increase in firepower.

I like the reinforcement card, especially for epic games. Expanded launchers should be a thing.

10 hours ago, Lobokai said:

Wait, woah. You're telling me that a Gunboat should have weaker attack than an XWing?! But instead should hit like a TIE?!! You cannot have flown the same thing I did and think that.

3 attack is truth

3 attack makes a ship expensive enough so you won't give it secondary weapons (I'm looking at you, b-wing). 2 attack and cannon slot is a better option.

***n it Odanan! Now I just sit here looking at your mock ups and want it more. FFG, throw him $1k and 2 free models and just make it already (with a slightly shootier linked ion cannon )

edit: as I said, Gil, I can dig the undergunned build if something like the linked cannon upgrade above gave a +1 (or 2, it is a cannon and a primary linked).

5 hours ago, Ashley said:

I remember being terrified of flying against Gunboats in the original X wing, tanky as hell and dangerous to try and just fly straight at, 3 attack dice for me.

Hasn't played game for 24 years, doesn't remember that they used missiles claims ti know exactly what the stats should be. Seems legit!

51 minutes ago, FTS Gecko said:

Hasn't played game for 24 years, doesn't remember that they used missiles claims ti know exactly what the stats should be. Seems legit!

That comment made me lol, kids still use that term, right, right?

I don't claim to know exactly what the stats should be but three broken CH flight sticks tells me they should be at least attack dice 2.5( 2 with additional effect) or maybe 3.

Sorry but this old timers fogged brain ain't what it used to be( plus crippling arthritis from all those blasted keyboard shortcuts)