That's actually very close to the summary of the XG1's EU background (from the X-Wing series) posted on page 1 Biophysical!

It's been so long. I hadn't remembered.

OK, so if you're ignoring a section of my statement because it doesn't fit your narrative, then you're essentially conceding defeat. Yes, they're two different mission types - and they're both mission types Gunboat was designed for and used for both (amongst others).

I'm ignoring the other section because it's TWO statements that you smashed into one sentence! And I disagree with one statement and not the other! Of course I'm not going to make arguments about the part I don't disagree with!

That's like if I said, "Pizza is great at being delicious and also fighting crime!" and you had to be all, "Well, that statement isn't true. I guess I have to argue that pizza isn't great at being delicious."

Just because you smash a **** statement together with a true one doesn't mean I have to sit back and pretend the whole thing is true.

Here's my headcanon.

The Empire notices that the Rebels use of craft with shields and hyperdrives is very effective against them. Especially in keeping their elite pilots alive to fight future battles.

The Empire tells it's designers to make something with the same capabilities.

Sienar designs the TIE Advanced x1. Lord Vader sees it, and confiscates the design for his personal use. Sienar goes back to the drawing board.

Next Sienar designs the TIE Advanced v1. This time, the Inquisition takes ownership of the design for use for their Inquisitor agents. Sienar goes back to the drawing board again.

Meanwhile, Cygnus comes up with the Assault Gunboat. No Sith Lords or shadowy organizations think it's cool enough to take, so the Imperial Navy goes, "Eh, I guess it'll have to do."

Finally, Sienar designs the TIE Avenger and wins life.

That's actually very close to the summary of the XG1's EU background (from the X-Wing series) posted on page 1 Biophysical!

It's been so long. I hadn't remembered.

Just saying great minds clearly think alike. And accurately!

OK, so if you're ignoring a section of my statement because it doesn't fit your narrative, then you're essentially conceding defeat. Yes, they're two different mission types - and they're both mission types Gunboat was designed for and used for both (amongst others).

I'm ignoring the other section because it's TWO statements that you smashed into one sentence! And I disagree with one statement and not the other! Of course I'm not going to make arguments about the part I don't disagree with!

That's like if I said, "Pizza is great at being delicious and also fighting crime!" and you had to be all, "Well, that statement isn't true. I guess I have to argue that pizza isn't great at being delicious."

Just because you smash a **** statement together with a true one doesn't mean I have to sit back and pretend the whole thing is true.

Headcanon follows:

Here's my headcanon.

The Empire notices that the Rebels use of craft with shields and hyperdrives is very effective against them. Especially in keeping their elite pilots alive to fight future battles.

The Empire tells it's designers to make something with the same capabilities.

Sienar designs the TIE Advanced x1. Lord Vader sees it, and confiscates the design for his personal use. Sienar goes back to the drawing board.

Next Sienar designs the TIE Advanced v1. This time, the Inquisition takes ownership of the design for use for their Inquisitor agents. Sienar goes back to the drawing board again.

Meanwhile, Cygnus comes up with the Assault Gunboat. No Sith Lords or shadowy organizations think it's cool enough to take, so the Imperial Navy goes, "Eh, I guess it'll have to do."

Finally, Sienar designs the TIE Avenger and wins life.

Same story as mine, just a different timeline. Seinar engineering hijacked by the Imperial fighter elite.

It's not as if there weren't real world examples of this happening too... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bomber_Mafia

What is with me posting links today?

It's not as if there weren't real world examples of this happening too... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bomber_Mafia

What is with me posting links today?

That's exactly what I had in mind.

So we all just forgot the Clone Wars? Just a scant 15 years before Rebels the Empire was using V-wings, ARC-170s and Eta-2s (without a doubt) and probably most of the old one starfighters including Z-95s, BTL-Bs and maybe V-19s, although it's unsure whether V-19s were still being manufactured at the end of the war. Most of these craft had no hyperdrive and relied on hyperdrive rings and carrier ships, Y-wings and ARC-170s being the main exceptions.

Speculation: the various ships manufactured by multiple companies probably led to a logistical nightmare. With a young Empire wishing to bring swift peace to the Galaxy and quash any CIS holdouts while expanding territory a continued reliance on a large military was needed. It was likely that the Commanders, absent of the Jedi leadership, wishes to consolidate forces and unify equipment aquisition. For starfighters this meant creating a 'joint strike fighter' type that could be easily maintained, customized and had commonality with any close variants as well as being suited for a multitude of roles. The TIE series was born.

Seeing that most of the CW era ships had no internal hyperdrives and were nimble and not heavily shielded, it only stands to reason the main new fighter be similar.

For some reason the Y-wing and ARC-170 have no obvious direct replacements other than TIE Bombers and TIE Scouts, unless you include the GUNBOAT. Perhaps Imperial doctrine chose to ignore the long range recon role as well as long range heavy bomber, perhaps relying on patrol craft and smaller capital ships. Perhaps, given this speculation the X-wing being initially designed for the empire does make some sense, although we do not see the Sienar equivalent also being designed, other than the Advanced line.

At any rate much of the lore behind the advanced TIEs and the Gunboat is contradictory to canon as well as being internal inconsistent. The Gunboat and the TIE Avenger are both said to be the first shielded and hyperspace capable fighters for the empire, ignoring both the X1 and the earliest imperial fighters.

Eh, from a certain point of view. The ARC, V-wing etc are old republic ships that the Empire phased out. The X1, Gunboat are the first Imperial ships indicating a change in Imperial naval doctrine.

Speculation: the various ships manufactured by multiple companies probably led to a logistical nightmare. With a young Empire wishing to bring swift peace to the Galaxy and quash any CIS holdouts while expanding territory a continued reliance on a large military was needed. It was likely that the Commanders, absent of the Jedi leadership, wishes to consolidate forces and unify equipment aquisition.

Actually, given how corrupt Imperial government is, I would bet that consolidation of manufacturing contracts was the result of corruption. Bribes paid to officials for exclusivity on government contracts and whatnot. With Sienar, Cygnus and Kuat being the ones handing out said bribes.

Speculation: the various ships manufactured by multiple companies probably led to a logistical nightmare. With a young Empire wishing to bring swift peace to the Galaxy and quash any CIS holdouts while expanding territory a continued reliance on a large military was needed. It was likely that the Commanders, absent of the Jedi leadership, wishes to consolidate forces and unify equipment aquisition.

Actually, given how corrupt Imperial government is, I would bet that consolidation of manufacturing contracts was the result of corruption. Bribes paid to officials for exclusivity on government contracts and whatnot. With Sienar, Cygnus and Kuat being the ones handing out said bribes.

I assumed this as well. That and it's good politics to funnel big stacks of credits to your political allies. Particularly when you're a military dictatorship, you want the means of production in the hands of friendlies. Bribery, corruption, deals for influence, it doesn't matter as long as the factory owners are now tied to the head of state.

I am 99% sure this is the case with Kuat Drive Yards also.

Why would Incom even bother trying to make a new starfighter to sell to the Empire when Sienar and Cygnus had locked up those contracts? Did the design team for the T-65 plan on turning traitor from the beginning, or when they were snubbed by the Navy? Did they use imperial grant money to develop the X-wing or was it all Incom's R&D budget? Will we eve find out? Does anyone care?

Anyway, GUNBOAT!

If Incom was kind of on the ropes and had some Rebel sympathies, I could totally see them putting together a proposal for the T-65 and figuring that if the Empire accepted it, they'd make a ton of money, and if it was rejected, it was time to split and back the Rebellion anyway. Even if they didn't plan to bail in case of rejection, it might have pushed them that way. "The Empire is just a corrupt old boys club, the galaxy needs a new political system (that will buy our product)".

From Incom's wookiee entry:

"When the staunchly independent company was nationalized by the Galactic Empire around late 1 BBY, much of its design and engineering staff defected. They made four prototypes of a new breed of starfighter available to the Rebel Alliance, and took a course of action to bring the blueprints and production know-how to Alliance facilities.

In reaction, Imperial officials rounded up the Incom engineers and scientists, and expeditiously sentenced them to labor in the spice mines of Kessel. However, they were spared their fate when a Rebel task force led by Captain Raymus Antilles intercepted their transports and brought them into the Alliance's fold."

I know Star Wars is a hilarious collection of "what if's" at the best of times (what if the Tuskan sniper had shot Anakin's pod racer on Tatooine?), but if the Empire hadn't been so desperate to subsume Incom, they would have likely had the X-Wing on their books, and the Rebels would never have destroyed the Death Star...

So, flew TOD2 mission 2 last night.

Assault gunboats are extremely tanky, and were the hardest part of the mission.

killed them off, cleared TIE Fighters, inspected freighter, intercepted fighters, fought the interceptor and bomber squadrons as a stray shot had jolted the Intrepid(bombers first, then 2 ints so that only one int is going at you, then rest of ints once bombers stop launching). 2 torps and a half dozen shots to each shield gen on intepid, finished intrepid by firing remaining torps into it, flying behind the ship and gunrunning it to death. The second time Intrepid has died this TOD.

From Incom's wookiee entry:

"When the staunchly independent company was nationalized by the Galactic Empire around late 1 BBY, much of its design and engineering staff defected. They made four prototypes of a new breed of starfighter available to the Rebel Alliance, and took a course of action to bring the blueprints and production know-how to Alliance facilities.

In reaction, Imperial officials rounded up the Incom engineers and scientists, and expeditiously sentenced them to labor in the spice mines of Kessel. However, they were spared their fate when a Rebel task force led by Captain Raymus Antilles intercepted their transports and brought them into the Alliance's fold."

I know Star Wars is a hilarious collection of "what if's" at the best of times (what if the Tuskan sniper had shot Anakin's pod racer on Tatooine?), but if the Empire hadn't been so desperate to subsume Incom, they would have likely had the X-Wing on their books, and the Rebels would never have destroyed the Death Star...

What, Luke and R2 couldn't blow up the Death Star with a Y-wing? It would be funny to see Vader in an X-wing though.

Biggest what if: the Turbolaser crew actually doing their job and blowing up the droids' escape pod.

Times it's okay to be cocky:

*(Spoilers)

Eh, from a certain point of view. The ARC, V-wing etc are old republic ships that the Empire phased out. The X1, Gunboat are the first Imperial ships indicating a change in Imperial naval doctrine.

Wait, the new Imperial doctrine was about strength in numbers, not boatmurdering the enemy with missiles

*(Spoilers)

Eh, I figure they're trailer shots and it's been a month...

Eh, from a certain point of view. The ARC, V-wing etc are old republic ships that the Empire phased out. The X1, Gunboat are the first Imperial ships indicating a change in Imperial naval doctrine.

Wait, the new Imperial doctrine was about strength in numbers, not boatmurdering the enemy with missiles

Imperial Doctrine was effeciency and control. This was done through pumping out easy to maintain TIEs and self sufficient ISDs to project power to all corners of the Galaxy. Strength in numbers was just one way to attain those goals.

Of course effeciency was relative and the enevitable corruption set in before long.

Eh, from a certain point of view. The ARC, V-wing etc are old republic ships that the Empire phased out. The X1, Gunboat are the first Imperial ships indicating a change in Imperial naval doctrine.

Wait, the new Imperial doctrine was about strength in numbers, not boatmurdering the enemy with missiles

Imperial Doctrine was effeciency and control. This was done through pumping out easy to maintain TIEs and self sufficient ISDs to project power to all corners of the Galaxy. Strength in numbers was just one way to attain those goals.

Of course effeciency was relative and the enevitable corruption set in before long.

Don't you just love it when people wade in with comments without actually following the discussion, Grimmy?

To recap the last couple of pages of the thread:

1. Upon dissolving the Republic, the Empire adopted the naval doctrine of strength in (overwhelming, cheap) numbers. This force of arms strategy allowed them to quickly subjugate systems and made them all but impossible to face in a head on engagement.
2. Then the Rebels emerged, using hyperspace-capable craft to stage hit-and-run attacks - not attacking the Imperial fleet directly, but isolated Imperial convoys, supply yards and installations (essentially, they used terrorist tactics). Jump in, destroy/capture a specific target, jump out before reinforcements arrived.
3. The Empire's strength in (overwhelming, cheap) numbers doctrine proved incapable of dealing with these tactics, as Sienar's starfighters required either a local garrison or capital ship ship (carrier) support. Despite the size of their fleet, the Imperials did not have enough capital ships to adequately patrol every system or protect every potential target, and the Rebels used intel to focus their attacks on poorly defended targets of opportunity as a result.
4. The Empire's in-built infrastructure meant it could not respond in time to many of these Rebel attacks. The Imperials recognised this problem, and tasked their contractors with finding a solution. Sienar went to work on the Immobiliser-418 cruisers and the TIE Advanced program, but Cygnus Spaceworks fast tracked a solution - the XG-1 Assault Gunboat.
5. The XG-1 featured shields, a hyperdrive, ion cannons and missile pods - it was well suited to multiple roles. More importantly, it was built using the same technology as the Imperial Lambda-class shuttle, technology that many Imperial pilots were already familiar with. They could escort convoys, perform routine patrols, respond quickly to distress calls or perform raids and hit-and-run strikes of their own.

(slow clapping)

Well said.

It's still worth noting that the XG-1's deployment didn't actually change the Empire's overwhelming force and numbers doctrine; it was still "might and numbers" with TIEs and Stat Destroyers, and the Death Star. The XG-1 was an immediate attempt at coubtering the Rebel's early victories and providing more widespread Imperial presence and support.

The hunt for the Rebel base, the Death Star and mobilising the fleet following Yavin were all blunt-instrument approaches. It wasn't until Sienar deployed the TIE Avenger and TIE Defender that there was a real change in Imperial tactics.