I'm not saying that a character cannot choose to use an ability and then encounter the instructions on a space. However once you have visited the Mystic, Healer or Blacksmith, you cannot then encounter one of them again after doing something else. You can't draw a card on a draw card space, alchemise the Object you just drew and then draw another card. Warlock are you trying to imply you could do that as well? There is no difference between both of these scenarios...

When the newest FAQ finally comes out, I'm sure that there will be an entry covering this!

I'm not saying that a character cannot choose to use an ability and then encounter the instructions on a space. However once you have visited the Mystic, Healer or Blacksmith, you cannot then encounter one of them again after doing something else. You can't draw a card on a draw card space, alchemise the Object you just drew and then draw another card. Warlock are you trying to imply you could do that as well? There is no difference between both of these scenarios...

If you could alchemise an Object and do as you say, then you could be able to draw an Object, take it, and then draw another card for no reason and against the rules. There is a difference between the 2 scenarios; many are puzzled by the first one, while nobody ever wasted a thought about the second.

There are abilities such as the Merchant's that offer a lot of potential interruptions to the purchase activity:

When you visit the Village, Market, or Market Day you may also discard one of your own Objects to take any one Object from the Purchase deck. You may also sell any of your Objects for 1 gold each and Magic Objects for 3 gold each.

So if I don't have money but have Objects to sell for gold, I can do that before buying from the Blacksmith. But as soon as I buy an Object at the Blacksmith, then the encounter is over and I cannot discard it to take another Object in its place? My understanding of this ability was much more flexible than this.

However, I agree that your "closed encounter sequence" interpretation excludes a lot of problems and is probably a good way to handle most of the as required/at any time effects, not only the abilities concerning space or card encounters.

When the newest FAQ finally comes out, I'm sure that there will be an entry covering this!

Still waiting... let's hope to see it next year!

To conclude, we will probably never play with him again, or maybe change a bit the rules.

What do you think now? Do you think I cheated? What rules should we change for the alchemist now?

Have a great day!

Raphaman

I use these House Rules for Alchemist and City expansion. Now alchemist and mercant are more balanced and still funny. You can play with one, two or all these house rules.

CITY

- you can enter in a shop space only if you have the correct number in the die. You cannot interrupt your movement.

- Every time you enter in a shop where you choose what to buy, draw 3 cards. You can buy only these 3 things. Put in the deck if you don't buy. Mix the deck everytime. You can enter in a shop only if you have golds for the cheapest thing in that shop.

ALCHEMIST

1 magic object = 1 gold

I've always thought of making a house rule that once you buy an item from a shop and the card is discarded, that it actually goes to a discard pile and cannot be repurchased. This limits the items in the game and prevents abuse. Has anyone ever played like this?

I've always thought of making a house rule that once you buy an item from a shop and the card is discarded, that it actually goes to a discard pile and cannot be repurchased. This limits the items in the game and prevents abuse. Has anyone ever played like this?

I've always played like this, but nothing has happened. Now I play with the normal rules

Hello everyone this is a first time poster here, and fairly new to the game (1 month or so), however our group has a few innovative ways to balance not just the alchemist, but also the city in general. Let me know what you think.

Disclaimer: We use all expansions (deep realm, nether realm, 4 outer boards, all small box expansions with two fireland small box expansions so we can see it, and dragon expansion)

We implemented these rules for the city:

1) You can only enter an individual shop one time per travel through the city (i.e. one opportunity to purchase from armory)

2) No re-entry even with a one roll to go back in the next turn

3) Here's the big one!!! At night, there is no entry into the shops (requires blood moon expansion)

This makes a HUGE difference in the gameplay, and let me tell you I was the first one to have the alchemist after the rule change, it balances it perfectly. You will be one turn away from the shops and an event will happen. It practically makes you a toad because you are likely to be going through the whole city (or past your shop you wanted) by the time an event happens again. This means you are spending multiple turns before being able to even re-enter (look at 4th rule) while other characters are getting stronger. I really suggest this rule, you have no idea how often the timing is hilarious.

4) Character must fully leave the city and can only re-enter once exiting fully with a turn (you must leave the city and complete the number of spaces for your move instead of using remaining space movements to re-enter the city, you must do this on your next roll)

Exception to this rule is traveling across the bridge of the nether realm

Every game so far has been balanced since because those characters are struggling to get the flail, warhorse, ..., etc and those only boost the roll, not their base amounts, so with a lot of endings it really isn't that beneficial. You will find other strong characters like the prophetess and dragon slayer become more powerful.

Finally, I have found to balance all of the outer expansions you must include the rule, no going backwards on a turn (counter-clockwise) in the highlands or dungeon unless you announce "I retreat" and your character must fully exit the expansion board to re-enter (look at rule 4 again). This seems like the right fit to keep everything balanced, and give the woodlands a good reason to enter (I have house rules on that if people want to hear let me know). These rules overall have added value to the deep realm expansion as you might pass the city shops at night and be more motivated to grab something from a boss there or travel over to the dungeon.

Going to start posting, glad to join the forum

Hello everyone this is a first time poster here, and fairly new to the game (1 month or so), however our group has a few innovative ways to balance not just the alchemist, but also the city in general. Let me know what you think.

Disclaimer: We use all expansions (deep realm, nether realm, 4 outer boards, all small box expansions with two fireland small box expansions so we can see it, and dragon expansion)

We implemented these rules for the city:

1) You can only enter an individual shop one time per travel through the city (i.e. one opportunity to purchase from armory)

2) No re-entry even with a one roll to go back in the next turn

Welcome to the forum JS!

All interesting ideas and a good contribution to the topic. I've definitely heard the blood moon daylight suggestion and I really haven't heard much about others playing the "retreat" retreat optional rules - I'd be curious to hear if others play it that way.

I just wanted to make one clarification about your above points in the city. This is actually already the correct rule, as you cannot move backwards in the city or re-enter shops until you pass around again.

Hello everyone this is a first time poster here, and fairly new to the game (1 month or so), however our group has a few innovative ways to balance not just the alchemist, but also the city in general. Let me know what you think.

Disclaimer: We use all expansions (deep realm, nether realm, 4 outer boards, all small box expansions with two fireland small box expansions so we can see it, and dragon expansion)

We implemented these rules for the city:

1) You can only enter an individual shop one time per travel through the city (i.e. one opportunity to purchase from armory)

2) No re-entry even with a one roll to go back in the next turn

3) Here's the big one!!! At night, there is no entry into the shops (requires blood moon expansion)

This makes a HUGE difference in the gameplay, and let me tell you I was the first one to have the alchemist after the rule change, it balances it perfectly. You will be one turn away from the shops and an event will happen. It practically makes you a toad because you are likely to be going through the whole city (or past your shop you wanted) by the time an event happens again. This means you are spending multiple turns before being able to even re-enter (look at 4th rule) while other characters are getting stronger. I really suggest this rule, you have no idea how often the timing is hilarious.

4) Character must fully leave the city and can only re-enter once exiting fully with a turn (you must leave the city and complete the number of spaces for your move instead of using remaining space movements to re-enter the city, you must do this on your next roll)

Exception to this rule is traveling across the bridge of the nether realm

Every game so far has been balanced since because those characters are struggling to get the flail, warhorse, ..., etc and those only boost the roll, not their base amounts, so with a lot of endings it really isn't that beneficial. You will find other strong characters like the prophetess and dragon slayer become more powerful.

Finally, I have found to balance all of the outer expansions you must include the rule, no going backwards on a turn (counter-clockwise) in the highlands or dungeon unless you announce "I retreat" and your character must fully exit the expansion board to re-enter (look at rule 4 again). This seems like the right fit to keep everything balanced, and give the woodlands a good reason to enter (I have house rules on that if people want to hear let me know). These rules overall have added value to the deep realm expansion as you might pass the city shops at night and be more motivated to grab something from a boss there or travel over to the dungeon.

Going to start posting, glad to join the forum

Ciao Jscook87

I like your house rules for the City expansion, and probably I'll try them with my friends!

What do you think about my House rule for the City?

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/183123-house-rules-forma-city-expansion/

Heres a Nuff... KILL HIM ON SIGHT!!

I like all of the ideas, very good to balance the strengths and weaknesses. The reason I like incorporating the day/night (which I saw someone actually had that idea before I even started playing so not taking credit for it) is that it still leaves motivation to enter the city (work your way over to it and enter) while there might be a possibility that just before you enter the first shop of desire night falls. I guarantee you many swear words will enter your head! And as I mentioned this gives motivation to enter the deep realm after passing through half the city to pass time until another event happens.

I know this requires two small box expansions, but I looked I only paid $30 with shipping and everything for both it's totally worth the buy. Additionally, you can make the werewolf activate from a d6 with the reaper a d1 doubling the chance of their movement, and apply the same when it's night rule to the reaper which the werewolf can stop on any character in its dice roll path during night.

And just in response to the "retreating" I mentioned. I originally thought that the motivation to enter the outer expansions was in this order:

1) City (mainly if you're a gold driven character)

2) Highlands

3) Dungeon

4) Woodlands

I personally love the woodlands, however everyone I play with has a tough time there and would prefer running through the highlands 3 times. Subsequently, we made the city rule, which felt leveled down to the motivation level of the woodlands, but then made the rule of only being able to proceed through the highlands and dungeon clockwise unless announcing to everyone that you are retreating. Once you have done so you must completely leave the region counter-clockwise before re-entering. I think it might be one of the alternative rules, not positive. Finally, we made a slight boost in motivation by making every path card give you a destiny card by reaching the "meeting with destiny" at the end, and if it rewards you a destiny card on the path card by some sort of completion of tasks you receive two destiny cards.

What I found in the last three games at the end of the game is that the discard piles of the four expansions were balanced (dungeon a little less used due to starting difficulty). This made me very happy, and different characters were motivated to go to different expansions without much bias. I will try to make a video showing the outcome (I took some footage just need to edit). We have some other house rules if anyone is interested, but I thought this was a good way to balance everything so far. Oh and with the harbinger cards, you're going to get a lot of events too (with play with those I forgot to mention I'll just add that those are insane and total game changer!!!). Anyways, hope to hear someone try it and let me know!

The nice part about the Woodland is that the Path Cards let you choose just how easy or hard you want it to be.

I agree and I feel like I have good luck getting through the woodlands, it's actually probably the expansion I enjoy the most in the RPG context. I just know my friends will go in there if they know they are guaranteed one destiny card for getting through on an easy path or two for attempting a hard path. Seems to work. Just so many toad possibilities there. Cracks me up one guy has toaded every time he's gone in there!

I agree with talismanamsilat all encounters are done instantly, revisting after using an ability would be exactly the same as encountering the space again. Each encounter consists of several steps, (enter, choose encounter, follow instructions etc) abilities can be used between steps but you cannot repeat a step. Whether you can use several abilities in turn is open to interpretation, i'd say you can but again you cannot repeat them. This isnt really laid out in the rules but i'd say that's the interpretation that is most aligned with the rules and im not in favor of interpretations of the rules of teh "if it's not explicitly forbidden, it's allowed" variety. If it's not clarified whether an action is possible either option is equally valid in itself and which is more valid is a commonsense judgement call

As for nerf, the one that affects the game the least is to discern between purchase decks and adventure decks. alchemists' ability should not affect purchased cards or they should be made into just 1 gold. that keeps him at intended balance,

I've never played with the city so cant really how it affects the game, but without it the alchemist is mediocre at best. so just take away his ability to exploit cheap purchasable magic objects and problem solved.

I'm not saying that a character cannot choose to use an ability and then encounter the instructions on a space. However once you have visited the Mystic, Healer or Blacksmith, you cannot then encounter one of them again after doing something else. You can't draw a card on a draw card space, alchemise the Object you just drew and then draw another card. Warlock are you trying to imply you could do that as well? There is no difference between both of these scenarios...

If you could alchemise an Object and do as you say, then you could be able to draw an Object, take it, and then draw another card for no reason and against the rules. There is a difference between the 2 scenarios; many are puzzled by the first one, while nobody ever wasted a thought about the second.

There are abilities such as the Merchant's that offer a lot of potential interruptions to the purchase activity:

When you visit the Village, Market, or Market Day you may also discard one of your own Objects to take any one Object from the Purchase deck. You may also sell any of your Objects for 1 gold each and Magic Objects for 3 gold each.

So if I don't have money but have Objects to sell for gold, I can do that before buying from the Blacksmith. But as soon as I buy an Object at the Blacksmith, then the encounter is over and I cannot discard it to take another Object in its place? My understanding of this ability was much more flexible than this.

However, I agree that your "closed encounter sequence" interpretation excludes a lot of problems and is probably a good way to handle most of the as required/at any time effects, not only the abilities concerning space or card encounters.

Its agreed that "It says nothing in the rules" about special ability use between encounters but it very common sense that Talisman is best played this way. Its good that you agree that its probably a good way to handle these issues.

Several solutions have been proposed, but the best one I've heard is to allow him to discard both Objects and Magic Objects for 1 gold only, like the Alchemist Follower. This would also fix his OP stance in a standard Crown of Command endgame.

This was our solution as well; it's simple and effective. The Alchemist is one of the strongest characters without the city and completely broken with it, but if he only gets 1 gold for a Magic Object he retains his fun/dynamic style without being OP.

Several solutions have been proposed, but the best one I've heard is to allow him to discard both Objects and Magic Objects for 1 gold only, like the Alchemist Follower. This would also fix his OP stance in a standard Crown of Command endgame.

This was our solution as well; it's simple and effective. The Alchemist is one of the strongest characters without the city and completely broken with it, but if he only gets 1 gold for a Magic Object he retains his fun/dynamic style without being OP.

Nah keep him as is.

Another problem.

Alchemist + everfull purse (or similar cards) = immortality, heal 1 life every turn.

Now I use this House Rule for the Alchemist: When you alchemise, you use 2 golds per potion.

At this point I don't know what to do about golds you can obtain if you alchemise magic objects. I always play the City with a house rule, so you cannot interrupt your movement in a shop space. In this way, Alchemist cannot buy for sure a lot of scrolls from the magic emporium or a lot of potions from Apothecary.

So, I'm uncertain:

A alchemise any object = 1G

B alchemise 1 magic object = 2G

C just the house rule "2G per potion"is enough

Mmhh...

Ever-full purse is a sinker of a card anyways to any player.

Another problem.

Alchemist + everfull purse (or similar cards) = immortality, heal 1 life every turn.

Now I use this House Rule for the Alchemist: When you alchemise, you use 2 golds per potion.

At this point I don't know what to do about golds you can obtain if you alchemise magic objects. I always play the City with a house rule, so you cannot interrupt your movement in a shop space. In this way, Alchemist cannot buy for sure a lot of scrolls from the magic emporium or a lot of potions from Apothecary.

So, I'm uncertain:

A alchemise any object = 1G

B alchemise 1 magic object = 2G

C just the house rule "2G per potion"is enough

Mmhh...

Rather than neutering the Alchemist, I prefer to see the playing field leveled a little bit. Just like there are objects, followers, strangers, and places that can give you the special abilities of other players, I think some simple edits can be done to mimic the Alchemist.

1) The Alchemist follower can do everything the Alchemist character can do, and you can use him in multiple actions in a single turn (i.e., you can turn objects into gold and gold into whatever).

2) The Alchemist NPC in the City space can do everything the Alchemist character can do, but you can only use one action in a single visit (i.e., you can turn objects into gold OR you can turn gold into whatever, but you cannot do both).

3) "Sorcerer's Square" in the City expansion is now an all-purpose pawn shop/alchemist. Objects may be turned into gold (regular for 1g and magic for 3g), but gold may NOT be turned into whatever. Spells may be sold for 1g each. Spells may no longer be purchased here.

4) "Magic Emporium" in the City expansion now sells SPELLS but not SCROLLS. This stops the bug of being able to buy three scrolls for 3g and then alchemize them for 9g. Plus it seems kind of silly to be able to buy spells in two different spots in the City.

One additional fix that I thought of as I was typing this was to change the conversion rate for gaining lives and fate. (Admittedly, this one isn't "simple.") Lives may be restored at the exchange rate of your current life value + 1 for each life you wish to heal. So if your life value is 4 and you want to heal 1 life, then it would cost 5g. If you want to heal 2 lives, then it would cost 10g. If your life value is 5 and you want to heal 1 life, then it would cost 6g.

The same principle would apply for fate: current fate value + 1 for each life you wish to heal.

Spells may be purchased at the conversion rate of your current number of spells + 1. So if you have 0 spells and want 1, it would cost 1g. If you have 1 spell and want 1, it would cost 2g. If you have 2 spells and want one it would cost 3g. If you have 1 spell and want 2 it would cost 5g.

I think this fixes some duplicity in the City expansion map, enables other characters to do what the Alchemist character can do (under the right conditions), and makes the super strong special abilities of the Alchemist character (now available in the Alchemist follower and Alchemist NPC) a little less overwhelmingly powerful.

@Osbo25:

That's how I thought gaining life and fate worked, however I was informed otherwise: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/215822-opinion-wanted-using-dice-instead-of-conescoins/?p=2151922

Basically you can't heal more than your starting value of 4 unless your 'Life Value' is increased, however almost nothing increases your Life Value except that one character the Ancient Oak , so increasing the cost for health might not work as you think it would?

@Osbo25:

That's how I thought gaining life and fate worked, however I was informed otherwise: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/215822-opinion-wanted-using-dice-instead-of-conescoins/?p=2151922

Basically you can't heal more than your starting value of 4 unless your 'Life Value' is increased, however almost nothing increases your Life Value except that one character the Ancient Oak , so increasing the cost for health might not work as you think it would?

If your life value is 4, it will always cost 5 gold to heal a single life. That's more than you can get for alchemizing even a magic object. Eventually the Alchemist would run out of objects to alchemize. And, as you rightly pointed out, you cannot heal above your life value.

So if you have 1 life left, it would cost 15 gold to get back to your full life value.

And you can increase your life value through a Quest Reward. I'm thinking that there's at least one other way of doing it, but I can't bring it to mind right now.

Interesting. Sounds very challenging now that I understand your concept. The way I originally interpreted your concept was 1 gold more than your current life (not life value), thus if you currently had 1 life (regardless of life value), it'd cost 2gp to heal up to 2, 3gp to heal up to 3, and 4gp to heal up to 4 for a total of 9gp. This method actually seems like a rather balanced alternative to me when playing the standard game; I may use this concept in our future games actually !