New question about rumor. This game I am playing Cthulhu and drew the Return of the Ancient Ones Rumor Card.

The next turn I drew all for nothing and don't have a solved mystery yet so score!

but the reckoning on the rumor goes off which reads. "Spawn 1 Monster on space 19. Then if there are 4 or more monsters on space 19, advance Doom to 0 and solve this rumor" So I spawn a monster and pull The Colour Out of Space monster out of the bag. But of course this monster has a spawn effect which reads "when this Monster is spawned, move it to Tunguska"

So which takes precedence? The spawn effect of the Rumor card (spawn on space 19) or the Monster spawn effect (move to Tunguska)?

I lean towards it spawning on 19 (for purposes of counting total monsters on space 19 at the time) and then going directly going to Tunguska but that actually helps the rumor since I could then still spawn 4 more monsters instead of three before the doom track advances to zero.

Thoughts?

Yemon, Guardian of the Gate

This really isn't covered by the reference guide, given that it just states (under The Golden Rules"):

" Effects on components (such as cards) sometimes contradict rules found in the rulebook or reference guide. In this situation, the component’s effect is correct. "

In this case, the two components (monster, rumor) are in conflict: one says go to space 19, the other says Spawn in Tunguska. So it's probably a first player decision.

Personally, my vote would be that the monster goes directly to Tunguska - do not stop at space 19, do not trigger rumor effects. Thematically it doesn't make sense the other way.

If a monster with a spawning effect is spawned on a space, it's the same as if it had been spawned on any other space. So if the Colour Out of Space is spawned via rumor instead of Gate Opening/Monster Surge, it still moves to Tunguska when it spawns, so it moves before any effects that say "When there are X monsters on this space".

Not so sure I agree on this one with you folks. Reference Guide has two interesting bullet points on pag. 8:

- When an effect spawns a Monster, draw one Monster token from the Monster cup and place it on the space indicated by that effect.

- If a Monster has the [spawn icon] on its front, resolve the “When this Monster is spawned” effect on the back of that token when it is spawned

So that "spawning" seems to be the action of drawing the chit an placing on the board (first of the quoted bullet points) and then you check the spawn icon and move the monster somewhere else. I don't have the game with me right now, but I'd be curious to know the exact reading on the back of the Colour. I think it's "when this Monster is spawned, move it to Tunguska" and not "spawn this monster directly to Tunguska". Or? Can anyone post the text on the back of the chit?

Colour Out of Space:

When this Monster is spawned, move it to Tunguska.

Thanks, Klaymen

So, still of my original idea: you spawn the monster on Space 19, and then it's moved to Tunguska. Otherwise it'd be worded "When this Monster is spawned, spawn it to Tunguska". Moved is used instead, and this implies two locations and the chit being moved from Location A to Location B

Thanks for the input. Looking at the rulebook under the spawning monster section (pg 11) It reads

"When an effect spawns a Monster, draw one random Monster token from the Monster cup and place it on the space indicated by the effect.

If the Monster has the spawn icon, look at the back of the Monster token and resolve its effect immediately after spawning it (for example, “When this Monster is spawned, move it to Heart of Africa”)."

Note the rules indicate that if the monster has the spawn icon resolve the effect immediately after spawning it. But the definition of spawning it from the top sentence appears to be draw the token and place it on the space indicated.

Now I try to resolve these things thematically. So since the Colour out of space is a meteor it makes sense for it to crash down directly on Tunguska (Vermont?). But the theme of the rumor is that the monsters want to hasten the return of the AO. So by spawning directly onto Tunguska makes the rumor harder to fail as well as harder for the investigators to solve (since the toughness cant be used to solve the rumor if its not on space 19). I guess this would really matter if I already had monsters on space 19.

BTW this game is really kicking me up and down the board. I'm only 5 turns in and Trish went insane in the first 2 turns (2 lose 3 sanity effects) and Lily had her one of a thousand dark pact go off so she has to choose someone to devour. That is where I stopped last night after drawing the Colour out of space. Only bright spot is that doom is well controlled (for now).

Yemon, the just quoted rules reinforce my opinion. It states "immediately after spawning it", so, you have first to spawn it, and spawning is the placement of the chit on the board.

Anyhoo, when in doubt, just use the "rules question" function on this very site. Nikki usually is very quick in answering such questions.

Note the rules indicate that if the monster has the spawn icon resolve the effect immediately after spawning it. But the definition of spawning it from the top sentence appears to be draw the token and place it on the space indicated.

Indicated by the effect that induces the monster to be spawned, not by the spawn icon on the monster, I'd say

Not so sure I agree on this one with you folks. Reference Guide has two interesting bullet points on pag. 8:

- When an effect spawns a Monster, draw one Monster token from the Monster cup and place it on the space indicated by that effect.

- If a Monster has the [spawn icon] on its front, resolve the “When this Monster is spawned” effect on the back of that token when it is spawned

So that "spawning" seems to be the action of drawing the chit an placing on the board (first of the quoted bullet points) and then you check the spawn icon and move the monster somewhere else. I don't have the game with me right now, but I'd be curious to know the exact reading on the back of the Colour. I think it's "when this Monster is spawned, move it to Tunguska" and not "spawn this monster directly to Tunguska". Or? Can anyone post the text on the back of the chit?

I'm not sure I see what you disagree with us about Julia.

Sorry, Wolfgar, maybe I missed your point then. I think the Colour is placed on Space 19, triggering the rumor (and possibly causing the rumor to fail), and if I got what you meant, you said the Colour moves directly on Tunguska, hence not triggering the rumor.

Is it correct, or did I misread your post? Apologies in case

No, that's correct. I'm not seeing an argument why it would be otherwise though. If spawning is the act of placing the monster, and then I place the monster, and I immediately resolve any spawn effects including moving it, then it won't be on the space for the rumor. Most of these things are worded "Spawn X Monsters... then , if there are X monsters..." So it would be

I. Spawn a Monster of Space 19

a. The monster is removed from the cup

b. Check for any spawn effects

c. Immediately resolve those effects

II. Check the number of monsters

At least that seems like the proper order.

Aye, I take your point. I'm not so sure of that, though, because there's a moment where that monster is on that space as required by the rumor.

Still, I'm no rules guru for Eldritch, and I'm not sure of my reading.

It seems like a good question to ask FFG. While I can see both sides to the argument and would fight for both, I would lean towards as soon as 4 monsters are occupying that space (regardless of spawn effect) you trigger it. Essentially it would just throw that "Check the number of monsters" portion after every step in the spawning process. Maybe I am being too hard on it, but I can just see it that way. When we had that rumor come up we got lucky because 90% of the monsters that happened to spawn on it were forced to move when there were only 1 or 2 on the space. While I prefer Wolfgar's way, I wouldn't be surprised if it resolved the other way.

Yemon, the just quoted rules reinforce my opinion. It states "immediately after spawning it", so, you have first to spawn it, and spawning is the placement of the chit on the board.

Anyhoo, when in doubt, just use the "rules question" function on this very site. Nikki usually is very quick in answering such questions.

Question sent. Hopefully will get a definitive answer from FFG and will update then.

Got a reply from Nikki.

Per the first sentance of the reckoning effect of the rumor "Spawn 1 Monster on space 19." the monster is spawned and placed on the the board at space 19. Then because of the spawn effect of the monster it moves to Tunguska. Then the second sentance of the rumor reckoning goes into effect. "Then if there are 4 or more monsters on space 19, advance Doom to 0 and solve this rumor." So because the monster moves prior to resolving the second sentance it would not trigger the advancement of doom/fail effect of the reckoning.

So it appears spawning a monster is placing it on the board and then resolving any spawn effects prior to anything that happens as a result of spawning it.

Actual message quoted below.

"The short answer is as follows:

Yemon

Thanks for sharing, Yemon. Should be entered in an FAQ, tho

But for me it was clear. the obvious rules for most board or card game : Every action should be resolve completely before resolve next one or other. Since move monster to his location i part of spawn monster action you should finish it before you can come to rumour card effect action. this rules most of the time work in all games….

Here is one guy play EH. i call him Negligent Master of Mistakes:

For me is awful playing but anyway people do what they want but still you must to have certain respect for the game and rules…..