my group absolutely hate wheni fly Soontir with PTL and stealth.

he can pull off crazy maneuvers and escape attack arcs as well as put a ship in his quite often at range 1.

I call this maneuvering the "what the Fel?" maneuver.

they say he is over powered, I say so. he cant dodge out of 360 fire arcs. you have to learn to fight him jut like any other ship.

so is he to powerful?

He is a force to be feared but he requires skill to play as he can die quite easily. He is in my top 3 ships for sheer killing power.

Fel, Wedge and Han

for slipperyness, he and Vader are kings.

For 33 points and 3 Hull, he better be **** good in a fight though.

Vader is better, give Vader an Interceptor and you will have a much better card.

Soontir w/ PTL and Stealth is 33 points. He should be powerful for being 1/3 of your points. But even if you're shooting at him at R2 because he dances out of R1, the average damage of 3F vs. 4F is .35. So, the 4 shots you take on him should do 1.4 damage... which he spends his evade token, and 40% of the time you get a damage through. Once that happens, he's done, 3F vs 3F = .64, so 3 attacks (presume you've lost another ship) puts it at 1.92 damage, so two turns there and you kill him, assuming no one is getting lucky. But this is with him restricting his movement to take an evade token.

Soontir, like all interceptors, live and die by the dice. There's a 15% chance to miff and roll 0 evades with 4 dice... And then he gets dead. But there's still a 48% to roll 2 or more evades.

The most powerful pilot is Vader. He just happens to fly a second-rate ship.

Fel with PTL and stealth is a high risk/high reward choice. He is hard to catch. In a 1:1 end game he will probably win. Kill him earlier while you still have several ships. He cannot dodge all arcs. 33 points for three hull is a bad ratio.

In a straight up fight at 33 pts Fel>Wedge>Vader, where Wedge has PtL and an R2 unit and Vader gets an Engine Upgrade.

For avoiding getting shot by means other than killing the opposition. Fel>Vader>Wedge.

For reliably surviving a game Vader>Fel>Wedge

Fel is the most powerful pilot and with push on him he's the same as vader but in a better ship. He does have to be flown correctly. Most rebel joust players won't be able to fly him to his full effect.

Soontir, like all interceptors, live and die by the dice.

I don't necessarily agree with this. The majority of an Interceptor's survivability is in its ability to maneuver out of firing arcs. It takes a skilled player to fly an Interceptor effectively; they're too much of a point investment to fly them head-to-head against the opponent.

Fel is particularly good at finding holes in firing arcs and still hitting hard in the process. And for those squads with 360 degree arcs, the best thing you can do is hang out at Range 3.

Vader is still stronger, slap an engine upgrade on him and he actually has much more maneuver options than Soontir Fel, who can only do all speed 2 maneuvers, cant U-turn, and maybe a forward 3 / 4 from time to time, due to him needing to clear away the stress token every turn.

Soontir, like all interceptors, live and die by the dice.

I don't necessarily agree with this. The majority of an Interceptor's survivability is in its ability to maneuver out of firing arcs. It takes a skilled player to fly an Interceptor effectively; they're too much of a point investment to fly them head-to-head against the opponent.

Fel is particularly good at finding holes in firing arcs and still hitting hard in the process. And for those squads with 360 degree arcs, the best thing you can do is hang out at Range 3.

But all it takes is one shot and that's that. Yes, they're designed to flank and stay out of arcs, but the reality is that it's a rare match where they're never shot at. End game Soontir should be able to avoid 1-2 arcs without any real challenge, but when the opponent blankets the playfield in the first few rounds, he will get shot. And in that case, he'll want to keep a R3 behind an asteroid... but it's mighty hard to stay 100% out of arc. If you were confident in that ability, then spending 3 points on stealth is a waste and it should go elsewhere.

my group absolutely hate wheni fly Soontir with PTL and stealth.

he can pull off crazy maneuvers and escape attack arcs as well as put a ship in his quite often at range 1.

I call this maneuvering the "what the Fel?" maneuver.

they say he is over powered, I say so. he cant dodge out of 360 fire arcs. you have to learn to fight him jut like any other ship.

so is he to powerful?

I suppose it depends on the type of game you're playing. He would be pretty darn tough if it's a one-on-one type situation or in small games, but assuming everyone's bringing 100 points, there are plenty of ways to counter him. The most obvious method seems to bring one of two options for the rebels: an ion turret on a Y, or the Falcon. Turrets are a big reason interceptor lists aren't as viable.

Wedge, or any method to go after Fel takes away a lot of his ability to dodge out of arcs.

If they're playing Imperials, they can take him as well, so there really shouldn't be a discussion there, even if they lack they do lack turrets.

Best way to take him down is block him to he loses his actions for the round. WIthout dual focus and an evade much easier to kill even with his stealth.

I would say he his POTENTIALLY the best COMBO in the game. Vader in just about any other ship would be crazy good but Fel loses a little when he's not in the most maneuverable ships in the game.

For fun, swap their ships and keep everything else the same. Vader is just about as awesome but Fel loses a little.

Soontir, like all interceptors, live and die by the dice.

I don't necessarily agree with this. The majority of an Interceptor's survivability is in its ability to maneuver out of firing arcs. It takes a skilled player to fly an Interceptor effectively; they're too much of a point investment to fly them head-to-head against the opponent.

Fel is particularly good at finding holes in firing arcs and still hitting hard in the process. And for those squads with 360 degree arcs, the best thing you can do is hang out at Range 3.

But all it takes is one shot and that's that. Yes, they're designed to flank and stay out of arcs, but the reality is that it's a rare match where they're never shot at. End game Soontir should be able to avoid 1-2 arcs without any real challenge, but when the opponent blankets the playfield in the first few rounds, he will get shot. And in that case, he'll want to keep a R3 behind an asteroid... but it's mighty hard to stay 100% out of arc. If you were confident in that ability, then spending 3 points on stealth is a waste and it should go elsewhere.

Maneuvering out of arcs isn't an "all or nothing" prospect; you don't have to stay out of 100% of arcs all the time for an Interceptor to be worthwhile. In fact, I think it's a bit foolish to assume that any Interceptor, even Fel, can avoid all firing arcs for an entire game. But Interceptors, in general, are better at slipping out of arcs than any other Imperial ship to date, and the majority of their defensive capability lay in that maneuverability.

That being said, I agree with your assessment that the 3 points on a SD is better spent elsewhere (or not at all).

No doubt, this is a fun combination! I have used it a few times myself. Just to be fun, try this:

Vader+Expose+Engine

Soontir Fel+PtL

Howelrunner

Night Beast

Have Vader and Howelrunner as wingmen and SF and NB as another pair. It's short on ships, but high on damage and frustrating your opponent!

I love to fly With Fel, he is to much fun with PTL.

I think that Fel is the counter to Wedge, Fel is the most mobile pilot, Wedge is has the best shoting skills.

The same goes for luke vs. vader, Luke has a good passive skill which make him had to hit, Vaders skill are great but become useless when stressed.

It might all come down to family intrigues......

Dont know if this is common knowledge..... but Vader is luke's father!

The deadly battle between Wedge and Fel might have something to do with Fel is poking Wedge's sister.

I'm seeing more b-wing and big ship lists out there, so I feel like Wedge is the logical answer to these changes in the meta. All those 1 agility ships that get zero dice when attacked by Wedge. The trick is keeping him alive.

That said, I love Fel with PtL.

the better the operrator/commander ( you ) the better the pilots

i can beat any kind of threat just with obsidian squadron pilots

sayin that yes vader and soontir are strong but dont underestimate wedge and han aswell. those pilots arent PS 9 for no real reason, they are ps 9 because of the threat they are and will be for the opponent.

just sayin the fighter is only as good as his polit itself the pilot who controls it.

play wise set traps and u can beat em.

iam quite skilled with maarek and vader but i suck with soontier i have to learn how to fly him properly

Id say turr fennir is just as powerfull, especially when he has 4 actions per round.

I love that build for Soontir. In fact, I flew in a tournament on Saturday and I was surprised to be the only player with Sonntir at all.

I love to fly him, but not so much because he is broken good, but because he reward skilled play. A lot! If you screw up with him, then there is a good chance that he is just dead. I was telling my opponent that Sonntir had yet to be hit let alone killed in all the games I had played him with this configuration. Then he died in a single shot. Yes my opponent rolled really well and I rolled badly.

Soontir does have more firepower than Vader, but I still think Vader is the superior ship. Mostly because Sootir kinda demands PtL and Stealth Device (or shield upgrade). But Naked Vader is comparable to Soontir. Vader does not come with Boost, but Barrel Roll is more useful in my experience. Vader does not pay stress to take two actions. Soontir does have a better dial, but not if he has to do green maneuvers every turn.

Vader also is good naked, so you can do much more things with him as you vary the upgrades. Vader with Swarm Tactics, or Squad Leader is great. You can't give these to Soontis since he needs his PtL. Do you want EU so you can do the awesome Boost+Barrel Roll combo, or maybe you want to give him some missiles. Vader with Cluster Missiles and Marksmanship is very punishing.

Last comes the obvious comparisons Soontir has one more attack dice and Vader has two Shields. Two shields increases the damage he can take by 67%. That is a big deal. I have had Vader hit, but I have never had him killed. One attack dice isn't as big a deal as people seem to think, especially since Vader has Target Lock. TL+F 2 attack dice has an expected number of hits of 1.875. Three attack dice + Focus only has 2.25. Yes Soontir has more firepower, but only about a third of a hit more.

Id say turr fennir is just as powerfull, especially when he has 4 actions per round.

PtL specifically says that you can only use it once per round. Turr Fennir's thing is that he can use it in the shooting phase OR the movement phase.

I actually like Turr Fennir better because his ability is usable without upgrades. Soontir, pretty much requires you to take PtL to take advantage of his ability.

Spoilers!!

Id say turr fennir is just as powerfull, especially when he has 4 actions per round.

PtL specifically says that you can only use it once per round. Turr Fennir's thing is that he can use it in the shooting phase OR the movement phase.

With the little side issue that if he uses it after moving he can't even use his special ability after shooting. Moving and then using PtL will Stress Turr which will prevent him from taking his free action after shooting.

How to beat Fel easily:

Step 1. Take Han, Lando or Chewie in a YT-1300.

Step 2. Take the Gunner upgrade.

Step 3. Watch Fel die horribly.

Step 4. Profit

Other options include Ion Cannons or Blaster Turrets. A Firespray or two with the Gunner upgrade also do a pretty good job as well. The key is to only shoot at Fel when you have a good chance of putting a hit through, or no other targets. Get rid of the Stealth Device and he is a much easier prospect.