So While playing at my LGS this weekend I was involved in a conversation centered upon the tie bomber being a waste. My stance was that every ship has merit in the game and they said the bomber could never be used effectively as the core of a build. Later they also said that Advanced protons are a waste. with those arguments in mind I want to build a list to prove them wrong...maybe not win every game but show the bomber's capabilities. therefore, what do you think of this list:

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/50470

Rhymer can extend the range of the AP to 2 and gets to reroll two dice due to Jonus. He will also be focused be cause of the colonel. The scimitar will also be focused and reroll two dice on BOTH attacks with clusters at range 3 in the alpha strike for the same reason. There is also plenty of hull to go around for survivability. Not saying its going to win any tournaments but it should prove worthy right???

They are one-trick Ponys. You have a ton of support just for firing 2 ordnance effectively. After your Torps and missiles are gone, a list that can take a few damage and survive will wipe the floor with you as you can't maneuver too well and even if you do, you will do hardly any damage.

My tip: If you take ordnance heavy lists, take more ordnance! I have played a 4 tie bomber list with 3 scimitars each packed with at least 2 missiles or torps and jonus with squad leader and nothing else. You don't need both Jonus and Jendon! Rhymer needs none of the 2, just give him PtL and he is happy.

The advanced Torps are actually very good, especially on Rhymer with an additional Action, or if he has a TL from a turn before. It's basically 5 guaranteed hits, and that is guaranteed damage against anything but a Tie with stealth and evade! Most of the time, it does at least 3-4 damage to a ship. I have also seen it oneshot an X-Wing.

Bombers are not bad per se, but they need to dowhat they are supposed to. Deliver missiles and torps, and survive long enough to do so!

ya agreed with most everything you said. I have only used single bombers in my builds. the conversation was about ships and cards we never take out of our boxes. bombers and AP came up. their argument was that a build that was predominantly bomber focused would not succeed consistantly. I will tinker around with your suggestions ande see what I come up with!

Agreed on ForceM's comments; Bombers are essentially the cheapest possible way of bringing one-use ordnance to the party. If you're going to field them as a force, therefore, that's what I see being most efficient as concentrating on: as many bombers as possible with one piece of ordnance each, providing you with a humungous alpha strike.

Jonus reinforces this idea - because he provides an area bonus like Howlrunner, the more bombers in his flight, the better.

Scimitars are tough as old boots for their price, and it's perfectly appropriate for Captain Jonus to command them - he was Scimitar Lead.

3 Scimitars and Jonus leaves you thirty points for upgrades, modifications and ordnance, and 4 fighters are easy enough to fit in the range 1 reroll bubble (I might suggest giving Jonus a defensive modification of some kind - shield upgrade, maybe? - or something like swarm tactics to speed up the alpha strike.)

The type of ordnance is a matter of taste and will largely drive your tactics; with rebel swarm fleets likely with the Z-95, 4 assault missiles can make a right mess.

In a local tourny (FFG) the winner of the whole thing was flying bomber swarm....so they my be one tricks, but that trick can sting

If people are telling you the bomber stinks they are likely jumping to conclusions having never fielded it. I would easily put the Bomber in my top 3 Imperial ships right now with or without ordinance. I think Jonus is probably in the top 3 best unique pilots Navy has with Howl and Darth

That being said, I do find Advanced Torps to be incredibly difficult to get off, and that can make them a waste in a lot of cases. But if you do get them off, they likely seriously crippled/killed something. I tend to stay away unless they have a specific purpose.

Bombers getting no love? I LOVE the bomber! Generally the meta kinda turns its back on any ship that requires upgrades to be competitive, but bombers can work. They way you make bombers work is, however, to field at least 3 of them. Any other Empire ship can find its niche in a list by itself, with the exception of maybe the TIE Advanced, as most would never play any pilot other than Vader and he is overpriced. (And yes, the shuttle can find a place in competitive lists, but often lists with high learning curves such as with the Vader crew card.)

Bombers are a cheap missile boat, but if your 4 dice missile is going to whiff because it can't be modified, it can often seem not worth it. Some tips:

Fly them in groups of 3 or more.

NEVER put more than 1 ordnance item on each bomber. With 2 Scimitars each with one missile, you only need to lose 2 of them to break the 33 point magic number in tournaments.

ALWAYS field Jonus if you do field multiple bombers.

NEVER field ANY bomber without ordnance. Jonus is very expensive, and he is likely to die first. He does increase your hit average with your other bombers significantly, but without his own ordnance he is defenseless should he not go first.

Try this list:

Captain Jonus+Assault Missiles+Seismic Charges+Squad Leader (31 points)

3 Scimitars+Assault Missiles+Seismic Charges (23 points each)

100 point

Fly in formation. Loose ALL Assault missiles in the first combat turn against the highest priority target. With Jonus' rerolls, 2 or more of them will connect. As soon as possible, drop ALL seismic charges and K-turn. If you haven't wiped the board, the bombers' 2 attack should be more than enough to clean up any members of a swarm still lucky enough to be on the table, but it may take several rounds. You'll have more trouble against a rebel aces list, but your missiles are much more likely to connect against them, so you'll have dealt a large amount of damage. Scatter if you have to, but FOCUS FIRE!

I think they will have much more versatility, along with a very potent disruptive factor, once the Ion Pulse Missile and Flechette Torpedo comes out. Once you can load up a Bomber for only 10 pts (12 with a Seismic Charge), it should be fun...

Paul Heaver, reigning world champ, took an all bombers list in the current vassal tournament, which I would think would give it some credibility. Unfortunately, he didn't make it to the top sixteen, but another bomber list actually did and I think was one of just two in the tournament.

I think the problem with the bomber is that it was released along side the B-wing and, at least from that perspective, looks inferior, but then a lot of ships do right now.

I firmly on the side of those who love the bombers. I agree with everything that has been said about their efficiency with ordnance and especially the usefulness of captain Jonus. Love that Jonus Guy! But the real surprise with Bombers is how effective they are after they have shot their missiles/torpedoes/bombs. I don't think they would go point up against TIEs for example, but they are good. They have the best dial of any of the Wave 3 ships. Two attack die may get a lot of hate on these forums, but add a target lock and a focus and they do pretty well. And their 6 Hull give them the most HP for their points.

Just remember Target Lock when you don't have a shot, and Focus when you do.

I also love how their 6 hull points means that they all will probably survive to fire their Alpha Strike.

Bombers getting no love? I LOVE the bomber! Generally the meta kinda turns its back on any ship that requires upgrades to be competitive, but bombers can work. They way you make bombers work is, however, to field at least 3 of them. Any other Empire ship can find its niche in a list by itself, with the exception of maybe the TIE Advanced, as most would never play any pilot other than Vader and he is overpriced. (And yes, the shuttle can find a place in competitive lists, but often lists with high learning curves such as with the Vader crew card.)

Bombers are a cheap missile boat, but if your 4 dice missile is going to whiff because it can't be modified, it can often seem not worth it. Some tips:

Fly them in groups of 3 or more.

NEVER put more than 1 ordnance item on each bomber. With 2 Scimitars each with one missile, you only need to lose 2 of them to break the 33 point magic number in tournaments.

ALWAYS field Jonus if you do field multiple bombers.

NEVER field ANY bomber without ordnance. Jonus is very expensive, and he is likely to die first. He does increase your hit average with your other bombers significantly, but without his own ordnance he is defenseless should he not go first.

Try this list:

Captain Jonus+Assault Missiles+Seismic Charges+Squad Leader (31 points)

3 Scimitars+Assault Missiles+Seismic Charges (23 points each)

100 point

Fly in formation. Loose ALL Assault missiles in the first combat turn against the highest priority target. With Jonus' rerolls, 2 or more of them will connect. As soon as possible, drop ALL seismic charges and K-turn. If you haven't wiped the board, the bombers' 2 attack should be more than enough to clean up any members of a swarm still lucky enough to be on the table, but it may take several rounds. You'll have more trouble against a rebel aces list, but your missiles are much more likely to connect against them, so you'll have dealt a large amount of damage. Scatter if you have to, but FOCUS FIRE!

I fail to see the point of SL if Jonus has his own ordnance. He needs his actions to let loose the Assault Missiles. I would think the list would be much better either dropping a charge and putting PTL on him so he can have a F for the attack, or ST or you can get two off early. Or if you really want SL, I think you need to pull the missiles from him... Maybe upgrade his charge to a proton bomb, making the enemy really choose "do i try to kill a bomber before he gets his shots off, or do I try to kill jonus before he gets his bomb off" meh, I'd probably still try to kill Jonus first since then you wouldn't have rerolls.

Well for me it's either Jonus plus 3 scimitars, where i can freely choose a mix of rockets and torpedoes. Sometimes i also include a mine or two, for the turn where you pass the enemy and K-turn. I have managed to do 3 points of damage on 2 different enemy ships with 3 of the the cheap 2 point mines.

When i talked about Squad leader i implied that Jonus had no missiles himself, he is there for his buff and the Scimitars do the damage!

Don't give Jonus too many options anyway, that way the enemy needs to think if he wants to kill Jonus or the bombers with the expensive ordnance. You can also give him Determination, that way the crit taking away his pilot ability can't affect you. Always a tough choice between that and Squad leader.

If you roll with Assault missiles, don't aim for the most dangerous enemy! Aim for the one with the least chances of dodging them completely. And of course for the guy in the middle!

Rhymer is good alone in lists of elite pilots. In that case you can play him either with advanced torps and Push the limit, which makes him really deadly, but also really expensive and paints him a huge target on his ship, or just give him something cheaper, like cluster missiles, so you can still benefit from his range modification. Deadeye is also a good choice if you dont take advanced torps. That way he can get off a volley of missiles in just a few turns.

The bomber is by no means a bad choice, but if you play them with little or no ordnance, why then take them at all. There are better choices.

For one missile per ship, i would rather go rebels and play A-Wings, or perhaps the Z-95 when it comes out.

I rather like Jendon with ST321 + 3x Bombers and some ordnance + upgrades.

Just remember Target Lock when you don't have a shot...

I love the Bomber, but I'm talking more about the miniature... so Hrathen, could you please expand this statement? I really do not understand why TL when you don't have a shot...

Just remember Target Lock when you don't have a shot...

I love the Bomber, but I'm talking more about the miniature... so Hrathen, could you please expand this statement? I really do not understand why TL when you don't have a shot...

When you don't have a shot (and people can't shoot you), then a focus is a waste of an action since it will just clear at the end of the round. However, the TL stays. As such, the next turn you can spend the TL+F to basically ensure you hit with both dice. Or spend the TL to modify the attack, and keep the F for defense.

Cpt. Jonus

-Squad Leader

Gamma Squadron Pilot x2

-Cluster Missiles

-Proton Torpedoes (or any 4 point missile or torpedoes)

Academy Pilot x2

I've flown this squad many times and must say it is very effective. Whoever says bombers are useless need to see this squad in action. Cluster missiles combined with Jonus's ability feels almost broken. Especially against low agility ships.

Cpt. Jonus

-Squad Leader

Gamma Squadron Pilot x2

-Cluster Missiles

-Proton Torpedoes (or any 4 point missile or torpedoes)

Academy Pilot x2

I've flown this squad many times and must say it is very effective. Whoever says bombers are useless need to see this squad in action. Cluster missiles combined with Jonus's ability feels almost broken. Especially against low agility ships.

...like the much revered B-Wing.

i have 4 and have never actually used them in a 100pt game.

i think the bomber is waiting for the right upgrade to make them decent.

Yeah, Flechette Torpedoes and Ion Pulse Missiles. Cheap to load up, and adds a very disruptive role to the bomber.

I fly this with a fair amount of success:

3 Gamma

1 Scimitar

1 Ap

3 Missiles to taste and 3 seismic charges. I prefer 2 proton torpedoes and 1 cluster right now. Get in their face and punch them hard. Concussions work the same but the different range makes them a bit wonky sometimes. I usually load a missile/torp a piece on the 3 gammas and put one seismic on the scimitar. PS means you probably get first shot or simultaneous shots with your ordnance. 6 hull means you're probably still 4 ships strong after alpha. Seismics smooth out the damage curve very nicely even if you only get 1 damage out of each. 6 hull also means you can seismic yourself every now and again to really mess with them.

I'm guessing bombers with ion pulse and flechettes will start popping up if flechettes do any damage. Ion pulsing is going to make bomb drops the next round awesome! Your dials are really pretty decent so flechettes should allow you to capitalize on them a big more.

Here's how I see the bomber:

As a single you are using the bomber as one of the following:

1. Using Jonus as a support piece to other, non-Bombers, using secondary weapons.

2. Using it as a heavy weight TIE Fighter. When you do this keep ordnance to a minimum with maybe one bomb and one shot.

3. Using Rhymer as a "top gun" fighter. This is actually risky because you want to load him up with ordnance to use his ability yet you shouldn't want too many points on him for when he goes down. Advanced Proton Torpedoes may be good with him but when you do that you probably should have PtL on him as well; if you fire the APT with Focus you rarely need to reroll misses.

In multiples:

4. Using Jonus as a booster while having other Bombers carrying ordnance. The "alpha attack" type squads.

5. Using two/three as missile/bomb carriers to provide attack options to a squad which may not have them. Not an "alpha" strike as such but they keep your opponents off base.

6. Bomber swarms: Use them like fat TIE Fighters without any (or minimal) ordnance, normally no more than a charge.

Future Use:

7. A cheaper platform to launch ion attacks from with the Empire.

Wow, this has been a very interesting read! Will try out multiple bombers as soon as possible, sounds like a lot of fun! Thanks guys

I was going to post a thread elsewhere but this now looks like a good spot.

2x scimitars, cluster missile, 1 seismic charge.

Jonas

1 omicron, hlc, engine upgrade, advanced sensors

I flew this list against a friend very successfully. The bomb can be swapped to taste for a three point whatever. Yes Jonas is naked. He is there to make the missiles and hlc work. The scimitars get one very nasty shot each but also help the shuttle sloooow roll to battle keeping that HLC in range. 2 or 3. Once the ordinance is off the scrims can scatter or focus fire or block to keep poor souls where the shuttle can eat them.

Clusters with Jonas are just dirty. The first erased an awing the second removed a B and the fleet then scattered and came back with the shuttle for another firing pass.

I'm rather curious why people seem to think they don't do well once their missiles are gone. They are literally just beefy Ties, but they also have TL, which increases their damage probability noticeably

Has anyone ever tried

5 Scimitar Pilots

Howlrunner

?

It's a six tie swarm, but it has 33 hit points, and 12 attack die. Sure the defense isn't quite as good, but it's literally (not quite, but very close) impossible to one-shot a bomber, while if bad dice are with you, you can lose ties like flies...

Every ship has its merits.

TIE Bombers are ordnance delivery platforms. Nothing more, nothing less. They must be treated as such. They are not dogfighters, they are kaboom causers.