The TIE Advanced gets a lot of hate. I think it's really undeserved.

Why is that, however? Primarily because it's The Empire's X-Wing. What do I mean by that? It's the most balanced ship in their arsenal.

So let's start.

The biggest place it falls short, admittedly, is the 2 attack. But it's agile, rather than powerful, and can barrel roll. Evade actions, barrel rolls, and a pretty solid selection of green moves, the TIE Advanced is agile and balanced in its traits.

It doesn't have the firepower the X-Wing has. But that's fine. It's quicker than the X-Wing, tenfold. It's also more durable than a TIE Fighter.

At the time, we're comparing the tempest squadron pilot and rookie pilot. They're very even. Same PS, and generally same stats, with firepower and agility swapped.

The TIE Advanced has yet another advantage over the X-Wing. Ordinance Diversity. It can carry any type of the missiles we love so much, as to where the X-Wing can only carry proton torpedoes.

When flying a TIE Advanced, it seems you have to use it with a fighter jet mentality. Your guns aren't your strongest weapon and your payload is where it's at, so use it.

We're moving up to PS4 now, but frankly, that's all that changes. So, named pilots then?

Well here's the big issue.

TIE Advanced pilots only go up to PS4 before getting named, as to where X-Wing pilots go up to 5. So they get a shoot first advantage. However, Stele is at 7, and can take a medal card. Biggs and Garven, the counterpart here, cannot.

Stele's got a nasty, "Pick how you screw up your enemy action" but admittedly, it's rather specific. Biggs is basically a "SHOOT ME INSTEAD" action and Garven, well. Focus stuff and so on. So nothing particularly offensive, but synergy.

finally it gets interesting.

Luke VS. Vader, Father VS. Son, Dark VS. Light, a never ending struggle. Well, until you cut each other's hands off and throw an old man down a pipe, sadly not following by an amputee specific high five.

Or high none, I don't know.

Luke runs like a little Fierfekk in X-Wing, but he's also a pretty awesomely skilled pilot at eight. But he isn't as agile as Vader and Vader can perform two actions which could make Luke's ability moot.

Luke has one leg up though. He has R2, or any R2 unit, and once again, it's Luke running and surviving. He's really good at that. But Vader, missiles and a medal card. Luke has one of those too, though.

It's kind of a TIE.

Then Wedge comes in, shoves a reduce agility action up Vader's metal rear and takes away the only advantage over the X-Wing it has at this point.

_________________________________________________________________________

See the issue here with the TIE Advanced?

It's not a bad ship.

But it doesn't have anywhere near the options it should. The TIE Interceptor has two versions now, the TIE Fighter has two different releases, as does the X-Wing, so where does that leave the likes of the TIE Advanced, or even Y-Wing?

The TIE Advanced doesn't compete perfectly well at higher PS levels because it doesn't have as many pilot cards or options as its only true counterpart, The X-Wing has. That's really sad too, because it's a good ship with a solid dial, and it'd be good for a Rebel player to fly if he's going Empire, because it's like a faster X-Wing.

But it just doesn't have the options other ships have. That's the real problem here.

The problem with the TIE Advanced is that it's the defensive counterpart for the X-Wing, in a game that favors offense.

It trades a point of attack for a point of defense, and adds barrel roll and evade, for the same price point.

The problem is, in this game that's a fairly bad trade. Sure, it's tanky as all get out. You can arc dodge, you can turtle it up and make it hard to hit. It'll survive quite a while.

But attack dice are more powerful than defense dice, so in general trading the superior offense of the X-Wing for more defensive options is a bad trade. It lacks punch, but it's too expensive to field in large numbers to compensate.

gah there is soo much error in this logic.

first xwings only go to pilot skill 4 generically.

second its agility isnt 10 times the xwing, infact the only thing it can do that an x wing cant is a speed 5. It cant hard turn like a tie fighter so its not nearly as agile.

Darth Vader is still very very strong. He has the strongest ability. The only thing that stops me from saying the best card in the game is his low attack. which you are right, about advances taking missiles. However since wave 1, thats what you take a temptest sq pilot for was as a gun boat (though Darth Vader doesnt require them). Also dont forget that xwings can also take adv proton torps...

Now why dont we ever ever see Maraak steel in game? does he suck? no, but if you can afford a maraak, you should find a way to add 2 more points to make him Darth Vader. Maraak may start to shine during the large ships, but atm the only thing you can truely use his ability for is as a falcon hunter. His abilty doesnt come into play enough other wise. Ok, so now that thats cleared up the question is why dont you take maraak if you have Vader already? the answer is the same as its been when advances were first released. is it really worth taking 55 points of tie advances?

Why the TIE advanced is crap:

2x TIE\ln Academy pilots costs 24 points

1x TIE\Adv Tempest Squadron Pilot costs 21 points

The two Tie fighters, have twice the amount of attack dice between them, a larger HP pool to absorb damage and are more maneuverable. Even if you count on one of them being destroyed, they still have the same attack, more remaining HP and are more maneuverable than the TIE\Adv.

Apart from Darth Vader, points spent on TIE\ln return a far greater investment than points spent on a TIE\Adv. The only reason to field them is if you want to bring some missiles which the new wave four ships will likely invalidate anyhow.

Here's the thing though. TIE Fighters can't carry missiles. So the damage -potential- of a TIE Advanced CAN be higher, and better at taking out a singular target.

IMO Darth Vader is the worst ship in the game. It doesn't help that the TIE Advanced is so terrible but when you couple his higher cost with the need to constantly push slower along the battle field (and hope to heck you don't have to make a k-turn) to get any significant use from his 2-action option, it's just not worth playing more than once just to say you tried it out.

Can I be flown well and contribute? Yes.

Is it anywhere useful in the imperial arsenal? No.

Multiple threads discussing this... Nothing has changed (yet, and doubt it will soon). Move along

You can tell an experienced player from one who just picked up the game by the ones that say either. THAT SHIP IS CRAP vs that ship has its uses. Ive not seen one useless pilot yet xwing. (though Ill admit Maraak can make the argument quite well with me) and as for useless ships? every ship so far is great (Ive recently seen Awings in a whole new light). Its all well balanced.

furthermore Ill also say, you can also tell the skill of a player by what they say. So far I can tell Captain Lackwit understands enough about this game to beat 2 of the above posters. Eltnot also makes a valid argument though I think hes not looking at the big picture

Actually Vader is arguably the best pilot in the game for survivability and innate ability. His ability is a stress free PtL, and you can give him PtL and gain a third action for the round, combine that with squad leader or swarm tactics and you have quite the the aggressor. How this equates to the 'worst' in the game is a bit surprising to me.

It's his high cost that really keeps him from inclusion to most lists... add an engine upgrade to him and he's really fantastic, a hull or shield upgrade also beef him up as well.. even stealth device is good on him..

The problem with the TIE Advanced is that it's the defensive counterpart for the X-Wing, in a game that favors offense.

It trades a point of attack for a point of defense, and adds barrel roll and evade, for the same price point.

The problem is, in this game that's a fairly bad trade. Sure, it's tanky as all get out. You can arc dodge, you can turtle it up and make it hard to hit. It'll survive quite a while.

But attack dice are more powerful than defense dice, so in general trading the superior offense of the X-Wing for more defensive options is a bad trade. It lacks punch, but it's too expensive to field in large numbers to compensate.

If all you look at is the basic stats and the dice it rolls then you do have to give a slight advantage to the X-wing, but that comparison ignores dial and actions actions and upgrades.

As upgrades go I would put missiles ahead of torpedoes, mostly do to the number of different missiles vs the number of different torpedoes. But astromech droid upgrade is awesome.

But where the TIE Advanced really makes up the slack is in it actions. The TIE Advanced has all the actions that the X-wing has, but it has two more, evade and barrel roll. These are two of my favorite actions. Evade is not only useful for avoiding getting hit, but it a skilled player can often use Evade actions to encourige their opponent to shoot at a different ship. But Barrel Roll on a high PS ships is my favorite action. I find the best defense can be simply rolling out of your opponents firing arc.

The last thing to point out is that the TIE Advanced really shines when you have a high PS and if you can have two actions. So the TIE Advanced isn't really that great a ship to be used in swarms with low PS, but it make Darth Vader one of the gratest pilot/ship combos in the game.

You can tell an experienced player from one who just picked up the game by the ones that say either. THAT SHIP IS CRAP vs that ship has its uses. Ive not seen one useless pilot yet xwing. (though Ill admit Maraak can make the argument quite well with me) and as for useless ships? every ship so far is great (Ive recently seen Awings in a whole new light). Its all well balanced.

furthermore Ill also say, you can also tell the skill of a player by what they say. So far I can tell Captain Lackwit understands enough about this game to beat 2 of the above posters. Eltnot also makes a valid argument though I think hes not looking at the big picture

Not if he's flying a TIE Advanced he won't.

See the issue here with the TIE Advanced?

It's not a bad ship...

But it just doesn't have the options other ships have. That's the real problem here.

Nope. CrookedWookiee and Eltnot are both right: it's a ship that favors defense in a game that favors offense. The TIE Fighter is cheap enough to overcome that handicap, and it looks like the Z-95 will be, too. But the TIE Advanced (and, to a somewhat lesser degree, the A-wing) are just too expensive for what they can dish out.

That's not to say either the Advanced or A-wing are rubbish, or that they can't be used successfully. (I've played competitively and won with both.) But if your thesis is that the Advanced just needs more upgrade options, then you're overlooking the fundamental fact that the ship is already too expensive for what it does; the option to load more upgrades on it, or giving it a generic PS5 or PS6 bid, would just make the problem worse by reducing its efficiency even further.

You can tell an experienced player from one who just picked up the game by the ones that say either. THAT SHIP IS CRAP vs that ship has its uses. Ive not seen one useless pilot yet xwing. (though Ill admit Maraak can make the argument quite well with me) and as for useless ships? every ship so far is great (Ive recently seen Awings in a whole new light). Its all well balanced.

furthermore Ill also say, you can also tell the skill of a player by what they say. So far I can tell Captain Lackwit understands enough about this game to beat 2 of the above posters. Eltnot also makes a valid argument though I think hes not looking at the big picture

Just because there is a niche for a ship, or because you've seen someone do well with a ship, does not make it "good". Good players will beat crap players whilst using a sub par list simply because they are good. And likewise, just because a ship has a niche, does not make it suitable for the majority of situations. Yes missiles can be good, but they are also costly. Also the TIE\adv makes for a poor delivery system for missiles when say compared to the A-Wing. So you're building a list around firing missiles now when you could make a better missile focused list based around A-Wings instead. As I said in my original post. Darth Vader is a good reason to take a TIE\adv. If you absolutely must get a missile into an Imperial list, then you might consider a TIE\adv. If you want to run them because you think they are cool, by all means take them, I won't stop you. Just stop trying to convince people that they are good when people have categorically proven them to not be the most efficient way to spend points or build a list around.

You can tell an experienced player from one who just picked up the game by the ones that say either. THAT SHIP IS CRAP vs that ship has its uses. Ive not seen one useless pilot yet xwing. (though Ill admit Maraak can make the argument quite well with me) and as for useless ships? every ship so far is great (Ive recently seen Awings in a whole new light). Its all well balanced.

furthermore Ill also say, you can also tell the skill of a player by what they say. So far I can tell Captain Lackwit understands enough about this game to beat 2 of the above posters. Eltnot also makes a valid argument though I think hes not looking at the big picture

I appreciate the vote of confidence, and I've flown under ten games, lost a majority. Only one I won was with an HWK, two X-Wings, VS two TIE Interceptors, a TIE, and Vader.

I've only flown empire once and it was with bare ties, it was pretty draw-worthy. But definitely, I appreciate the vote of confidence. Next time, I'm playing Empire, I'm going to use the TIE Advanced, and I'll see if it really is as good as I think it can be.

look I'm the same guy who flies a souped up HWK against overwhelming forces. You can have a crap ship and still come out on top, you seriously just need to know what you're using and how to use it.

I just get fed by people calling a ship useless without it being useless. You are absolutely right EltNot, the Tie advance isnt meant as an every situation versatile ship.

lets even out the points a little.

Tie advance+missle vs 2 academy pilots 25 vs 24 points.

The tie advance has ps advantage, and can barrel rollout of arcs when needed. so lets look at a scenario where the Tie advance vs the fighters fight each other dealing the absolute worst luck to each other. ties at range 3, tie advance blows up tie fighter. last tie fighter deals 2 crits to tie advance, but is absorbed by sheilds. ships get in range 1, pilot skill 2 vs pilot skill 1. tie advance has the first shot. You can drum up 100 different scenarios. One of the best games Ive witnessed was a newby flying 4 tie advances armed with concussion missiles destroy an experienced 8 tie fighter swarm.

When it comes down to missiles your building towards luck type builds. Its not like warhammers luck (the entire game based on a die roll) its allot more down to skill) Infact I call it luck, and we can argue at what % a ship is or isnt a good build. In business you have potential sales, and average sales. Advances have way more potential then a tie fighter, though the average will be on the tie fighters side.

Bottom line if your betting your house on a single game, you gotta realize you might lose your house betting against the advances.

Lackwit, if you keep your mind open to all ships youll get quite good. Theres tons of tips and tricks youll pick up as you play this game.

I think what I do like about the Advanced is the absolute toughness and survivability of the thing, but oh man that dial... that frikken movement dial. I'm sure I'm not the only one to ever say this but if it had another Koiogran turn or the tight 1 turn of the normal TIE I'd have nothing to complain about, but the fact that the TIE/Ln has better movement than it genuinely pisses me off. Listen, I'd be happy to make the most out of it if there was something else that was special about it, but time and again I've had no real problem with eventually wiping them off of the board.

Yesterday I was flying against someone who was down to Vader with his Concussion Missile spent and my B-Wing and A-Wing were both at half health. He had been fighting me for many turns while I still had both ships, slowly picking off his TIE Fighters with a mixture of excellent luck and very very careful movement planning on my part, but I simply couldn't get over the fact that with the extremely disappointing dial of the Advanced he would've had my two ships if he could pull off a couple of better moves with it. Eventually I ended up landing the finishing blow on Vader much as he put up a fairly decent fight, but I can't shake how... awful the Advanced performed, even when paired up with skilled TIE pilots. This isn't the first time this sort of thing has happened either.

There's a big difference between "useless" and "underwhelming," or "hard to justify for the points when considering alternatives."

I agree Crooked. The Advanced x1 is by no means useless, but I certainly feel it's the last two points front and center.

I think Maarek Stele's ability will come in very handy in epic play against capital ships. If you are able to get the shields down on a capital ship's section before Maarek's shot, there is a decent chance he could get a critical in and make some serious trouble. Plus, with the presumably higher team limit, the price of the Advanced will be more reasonable. This craft may find a new home in epic format.

You make a somewhat weak point about Maarek's niche ability. Depending on how Energy is going to work and just when Recover is a viable choice will play heavily into just how useful he manages to be. If Recover happens before Maarek fires and there are still shields it does limit his presence on the battlefield. The other thing is that there aren't a terribly large amount of Imperial pilots with skill more than or equal to 7 (although this will likely change with the new ships and the Ace Interceptors will make this a null statement) so his ability, again, is nullified.

If you are going to look at missile platforms for the empire you need to mention the bombers. A tie advanced is harder to hit but the bombers cost less and can pack in a lot more who'll of, both for their individual hulls and in terms of points.

I personally think the advanced was made to be Vader and the rest just don't show well. In your comparison to the two tie ln they have barrel roll too and a good shot at getting away from the advanced and messing it up bad.

Now if I could drop Mauler Mithal or Howlrunner's into an advanced, I would be sorely tempted...

I think if we could trade pilots into different ships I don't think we'd EVER see Howlrunner outside of an Advanced ever. Or Luke outside of an A-Wing. XD

Oh I dunno, I can see lots of ships I could squeeze howl into, imagine that ability Asa crew slot on a lambda or firespray.

The biggest place it falls short, admittedly, is the 2 attack

It is a balanced ship, but the worst part of it is not the 2 attack, its the dial.

The biggest place it falls short, admittedly, is the 2 attack

It is a balanced ship, but the worst part of it is not the 2 attack, its the dial.

This is why I fly A-Wings. Sure they have 2 attack, but their dial and choices of actions are AMAZING. If I were to do a side by side, you could easily compare Tycho Celchu with Push the Limit to Darth Vader without upgrades. Even with Vader's extra hull point and Push the Limit making Tycho Stressed, I still pick the A-Wing over the Advanced any day for their sheer pleasure of how many movement options they possess.