For the Move power, Does it cost a pip to activate EACH Range band that i have purchased? Or is it one pip up to my maximum range?

Thank!

For the Move power, Does it cost a pip to activate EACH Range band that i have purchased? Or is it one pip up to my maximum range?

Thank!

(Since it's been a problem before,) the reason you can get upgrades recquiring you to use three points is because you can get a second force rating. Things recquiring you to use five or more points mean you have to either get the specialization in Age of Rebellion or in Force and Destiny.

I think you're mistaken castle. From what I can remember discussing and reading, a type of upgrade needs only one pip to activate up to as many of that type of upgrade you possess. So if you have two range upgrades it only costs you one pip to increase range by two bands.

EDIT: however, if you only have one range upgrade, you can spend multiple pips to increase it further.

Pretty sure the upgrades work with 1 point to activate the highest effect of that upgrade.

So, if you have 1 rank in Magnitude (number of targets effected), 2 ranks in range, you could spend 1 pip for each to affect 1 additional target (2) out to medium range.

Now, some upgrades allow you to activate them multiple times. So, in the above case, if you wanted to affect 3 targets out to extreme range, you could spend 2 pips for each upgrade.

Note, however, that some upgrades, such as Move's strength upgrade, do not have the text allowing you to activate them more than once--you can affect a silhouette only as large as the number of strength upgrades you have.

Yeah, each of the Upgrades that require a Force Point to activate allow you to trigger all purchased upgrades of that type for that one Force Point.

So in the case of Move, if you have two Range Upgrades, you could spend two Force Points (one to activate the basic power, another to activate the Range Upgrades) to increase the range from Short to Long. If your Force-user was rolling two Force dice and managed to score three Force Points to work with, you could spend that third Force Point to activate the Range Upgrade again, extending the range of the power from Short to Extreme. Same holds true with Magnitude Upgrade, so that if you had purchased two Magnitude Upgrades, you could spend 2 Force Points (1 for the basic power, 1 for the upgrade) to affect three targets, or 3 Force Points to affect up to five targets (since you're triggering the Magnitude Upgrade twice).

Wow, nice answers Mr. Morningfire, but i was starting to get a little confused. I am just starting to really understand the force in this game. I have a very close topic going on another thread. But, again, awesome answers, but I will try to dumb it down for me to make sure I understand it to. There seems to be a lot of confusion out there on this.

This example is using move.

1. Spend a force point to activate basic power

2. Spend one additional force point to activate one type of upgrade (strength)

2A. If I have all four Strength upgrades bought, it will still only cost the upgrade force point to use to move silhouette 4

So I need to roll a total of two force points to use move silhouette 4.

Range

1. I spend one force point to activate basic power

2. One force point to activate range upgrade

2a. I have two range upgrades bought, I can activate up to my second bought upgrade on this one force point, increase range to long.

I rolled a total of 3 force points (requires force rating 2) I can activate basic move, move silhouette 0 up to long range for two of those, my third force point can be spent to use a range upgrade I have not bought yet to increase range to extreme, or I could activate strength upgrade, and move up to silhouette 4 at long range. (Using the above strength upgrade)

Thanks for the answers, now part 2 of my question: do you make your player announce what they are attempting to do with their force power before rolling? So therefore if they dont roll enough force pips they outright fail? Or do you let them adjust what they want to do once they have rolled? ..even if they didnt roll enough force pips to pull off what they wanted to do?

Thanks again!

Personally I'd let them adjust. I view the Force dice roll kind of like Channelling in WFRP3...once you've gathered the Force/Power you can decide how to use it.

I'm not 100% sure what you are asking.

They try to activate move, they only roll dark side pips. They don't want to use the dark side pips. The activation then fails, they spent their action and failed, next player is up to bat now. They don't get to do a different action now.

They want to use move and an upgrade, requiring two pips.

They only roll one pip. Do they fail at the action? Or do they get to use move anyway? Is the heart of your question?

How about they only declare they are using move, then see how many pips they get, then go from there. Do you have to declare how advantage is to be spent before it is rolled?

That is what I do. Player tells me he wants to activate move, we roll it, then decides how to spend the pips. Sometimes he does tell me the whole bit, but as long as he gets at least one pip, light or dark, he should be able to activate the basic power if they want to. If he had bigger plans and can't get the two pips, then he can forgo using move to toss some rocks around if he wants.

If they do roll two force points, and only use one, the extra is lost at the end of their turn. Force points cannot be stores up or carried over.

They only roll one pip. Do they fail at the action? Or do they get to use move anyway? Is the heart of your question?

Sorry, this is the heart of my question.

I'd let them activate anyway. They may not be able to do what they orginally wanted, but they could do something. Of course, loosing the action has precidence too. In ESB, Luke obviously didn't roll any lightside pips when trying to get his lightsaber out of the snow. He had to try again next round. He wasn't closing his eyes to concentrate, he was praying that the dice gods favored him on his next roll.

Letting the players decide what to do after they roll is, to me, key for good fun, good story and not allowing it would be mean. I'm also pretty sure that's the intention of the rules.

Thanks for the answers, now part 2 of my question: do you make your player announce what they are attempting to do with their force power before rolling? So therefore if they dont roll enough force pips they outright fail? Or do you let them adjust what they want to do once they have rolled? ..even if they didnt roll enough force pips to pull off what they wanted to do?

Thanks again!

The answer is that the player gets to decide how they spend their Force Points after they roll and see what they've got to work with.

This is all but spelled out on page 278 of the core rulebook.

Second column, third paragraph: "Once a player character assembles his available Force points, he consults his Force power and determines how he will spend them."

So while the player might want a certain affect, such as activating Move and a Strength Upgrade to hurl a stormtrooper into another stormtrooper, if they don't roll enough Force points to activate both the basic power and the upgrade (in this case, they only get a single Force point to work with), they can still activate the basic power. It may not be the effect that was desired prior to the PC rolling their Force die, but they still generate an effect.

The only time this might be an issue of any sort is if the PC was looking to use Move and Strength Upgrades to move a particularly big object, such as lifting a landspeeder (Silhouette 2). If the PC only generates a single Force point, they could still activate the basic effect of Move... but there's really not much of a point since the main task they were trying to accomplish is out of reach.

Hm... Good to know that!

I suppose I'll inform my players so that they can get more upgrades to the force.

Ho ho ho!

Donovan, I strongly believe that a friend of mine will send you a bouquet of flowers for that explanation ha ha ha

He was pretty scared just because roll so many pips to activate his Move power was almost impossible. In other editions he used to lift (with no so much effort) heavy weight/size things. It was more a character concept than a mechanic thing. He was an extraordinary telekinetic and the idea to have difficulties to move not-so-big things amused him.

Thanks to everyone for the clarification!

This doesn't count as double post XD

Greetings people!

I need some help with Force Ratings and SW characters. Based on Beta Force Rating Scale (from 0 to 7), what FR will you put to main characters from the Saga like Luke or other ones?

Thank you so much!

Yoda and Palpatine would be at 7.

Darth Vader at 6 and Luke at 5.( Luke at 6 at the end of episode VI )

Actually, I'd peg Vader as a 5 at absolute most, being restricted by a combination of his cybernetics and extreme self-loathing Palps and Yoda would be at a 6; each is the most powerful Force user of their respective faction, but they're not at "god-tier" that FR 7 reflects.

Luke as of RotJ would be FR 3, just enough to rank as rookie Jedi Knight. Depending on the author in the EU, he'd range from a 4 to a 9 in the post-RotJ material, though I'd say he's one of the very few cases that would warrant a FR 7 by the time the NJO rolls around.

Anakin and Obi-Wan topped out at FR 4 during RotS, with Obi-Wan likely staying there as he really wasn't doing much to keep honing his skills, and probably was doing just enough to keep sharp while not drawing attention to himself.

There is a possible future Talent/Ability (or even bare Force mechanic) called "On the Edge" that assures one pip by paying 1 Strain.

There is a possible future Talent/Ability (or even bare Force mechanic) called "On the Edge" that assures one pip by paying 1 Strain.

My understanding is that you can always choose to fuel a Force power with a dark side pip for the cost of 1 strain (and probably some sort of "Dark side point"-mechanic that we haven't seen yet).

There is a possible future Talent/Ability (or even bare Force mechanic) called "On the Edge" that assures one pip by paying 1 Strain.

My understanding is that you can always choose to fuel a Force power with a dark side pip for the cost of 1 strain (and probably some sort of "Dark side point"-mechanic that we haven't seen yet).

I think what Josep's getting at is that several NPCs have an ability that lets them do that without having to first flip a Desitny Point the way that PCs are forced to do.

They just simply suffer the Strain and convert a DS point into a LS point. Which frankly isn't really even needed for most of them because they were written in such a way that they get to trigger a Force ability and several upgrades for a single Force Point as per an answer from Sam Stewart on an older episode of the Order 66 podcast.

So where a PC would need 4 LS points to trigger the Move power (Basic Power) to affect up to two objects (Magnitude Upgrade) of up to Silhouette 1 (Strength Upgrade) out to Medium Range (Range Upgrade), the Forsaken Jedi on page 412 of the core rulebook only needs a single LS pip. The Emperor's Hand on page 402 gets something similar, being able to spend a single DS point to use Influence to inflict 2 strain to a target at Short Range or influence their thoughts/emotions at Short Range, which for a PC would require 2 Force Points since Influence has a default range of Engaged and thus requires activating a Range Upgrade. There's an NPC in Jewel of Yavin that does something similar with their Force Powers, which is perhaps a bit more grating because it's a named NPC rather than a generic adversary like the Forsaken Jedi or the Emperor's Hand.

Apart from GM Macguffins my character has never been able to perform any move beyond the limits of 2 Force pips. If there were a Force related action like Concentrate, where one could perform the action to boost a Force move with one guaranteed pip the next turn, it would make sense to me.

Do you have the second force die from the bottom of the FSE tree? That gives you the chance at 4 pips.

Apart from GM Macguffins my character has never been able to perform any move beyond the limits of 2 Force pips. If there were a Force related action like Concentrate, where one could perform the action to boost a Force move with one guaranteed pip the next turn, it would make sense to me.

Do you have the second force die from the bottom of the FSE tree? That gives you the chance at 4 pips.

Guessing he probably hasn't gotten that far, either from not having been playing the character that long or from devoting his XP into other things (like Force Powers or skills).

Then again, while rolling two Force dice to activate a power are nice, it's really not that large of a boost in power, as you're still more likely to get a dark side facing than a light side one. The second die simply ups the chances of getting two LS points to work with, or allows a PC to have Sense's defensive Control Upgrade active and still have the option to use other powers.

The force ratings i stated were just a guess, since i never read the beta.

They used this references:

0 — No Affinity — Common Populace
1 — Sensitive — Jedi Initiate
2 — Tenuous — A self-taught Exile; Padawan
3 — Moderate — A young Jedi Knight.
4 — Strong —A well-trained Jedi Knight
5 — Potent — A veteran Jedi Knight
6 — Formidable — Jedi Master, Sith Lord
7 — Legendary — The most truly heroic Jedi or the most villainous Sith Lords.