My wife's Archaeologist character has taken Knowledge Specialization as one of her first Talents in our new campaign.

Her character's a dedicated explorer with a couple of ranks in Knowledge (Lore), which she chose as her specialization.

As described on page 25 of Enter the Unknown, Knowledge Specialization lets you, when making a skill check with your specialized skill, spend a Triumph to gain additional successes equal to ranks in Knowledge Specialization.

Right now she has 1 rank in Knowledge Specialization, so if she rolls a Triumph on a Knowledge (Lore) check, she can ... add 1 Success to the result?

Is it just me or does this not seem that great? Even with both ranks in the Archaeologist tree, this is still only 2 Successes added to the roll.

I would have thought a Triumph on a successful Knowledge roll would be a pretty great thing, giving you a lot of extra information. I guess it is useful if you have a very strict 'menu' of Successes, and what each Success can get you from the check?

Or maybe it's designed to help turn a failed roll into a successful one? If you rolled a net zero success and zero failure, plus a Triumph, you could spend the Triumph to add 1 or 2 Successes to the check and succeed rather than failing?

Anyway, just wanted to check on how others have used this Talent.

Thanks!

You need more than one rank for the mechanical effect to shine. Once you're rank 2, then 1 triumph equals 2 successes. I don't think the mechanical effect of the talent precludes still having the narrative effect of the triumph kick in as well on a roll.

You need more than one rank for the mechanical effect to shine. Once you're rank 2, then 1 triumph equals 2 successes. I don't think the mechanical effect of the talent precludes still having the narrative effect of the triumph kick in as well on a roll.

Where does it say that if you have say 5 ranks in a skill that 1 triumph adds 5 more successes?

In the description both on the talent tree and the talent definition section. For the talent, not the skill also.

You pick a Knowledge spec and "When making checks with that skill, he may spend **Triumph** to gain additional successes equal to his ranks in the Knowledge Specialization"

You need more than one rank for the mechanical effect to shine. Once you're rank 2, then 1 triumph equals 2 successes. I don't think the mechanical effect of the talent precludes still having the narrative effect of the triumph kick in as well on a roll.

I guess that was my main thought--on a roll which is already a success, then adding 2 more Successes might not be as important as the narrative effect of a Triumph, which I'd be pretty generous about.

I think I'll play it like you suggest, where even if you spend the Triumph to add the successes to your roll, it still can provide some benefits in terms of the flavor and depth of information the check reveals.

In the description both on the talent tree and the talent definition section. For the talent, not the skill also.

You pick a Knowledge spec and "When making checks with that skill, he may spend **Triumph** to gain additional successes equal to his ranks in the Knowledge Specialization"

Oh just for knowledge skills. That would be crazy for combat skills etc....

You need more than one rank for the mechanical effect to shine. Once you're rank 2, then 1 triumph equals 2 successes. I don't think the mechanical effect of the talent precludes still having the narrative effect of the triumph kick in as well on a roll.

I guess that was my main thought--on a roll which is already a success, then adding 2 more Successes might not be as important as the narrative effect of a Triumph, which I'd be pretty generous about.

I think I'll play it like you suggest, where even if you spend the Triumph to add the successes to your roll, it still can provide some benefits in terms of the flavor and depth of information the check reveals.

In the description both on the talent tree and the talent definition section. For the talent, not the skill also.

You pick a Knowledge spec and "When making checks with that skill, he may spend **Triumph** to gain additional successes equal to his ranks in the Knowledge Specialization"

Oh just for knowledge skills. That would be crazy for combat skills etc....

Honestly I don't think the Knowledge skills have a very good explanation on how they might be used mechanically. I really think there should be a tangible example given other than the text descriptions. Some players will just take the sort of general suggestions of how Knowledge should be used and never assign a tangible mechanical benefit. I try to use them as a way to tack on a sort of session long Assist Maneuver myself. Make it narrow in focus of course, but still there should be some point to it. This talent could broaden that benefit because of the Player's focus in the area imo.

You need more than one rank for the mechanical effect to shine. Once you're rank 2, then 1 triumph equals 2 successes. I don't think the mechanical effect of the talent precludes still having the narrative effect of the triumph kick in as well on a roll.

I guess that was my main thought--on a roll which is already a success, then adding 2 more Successes might not be as important as the narrative effect of a Triumph, which I'd be pretty generous about.

I think I'll play it like you suggest, where even if you spend the Triumph to add the successes to your roll, it still can provide some benefits in terms of the flavor and depth of information the check reveals.

It's more options, not a killer app.

It's not always going to be the option to choose, but sometimes those successes can make the difference between a failed roll and a successful one.

Honestly I don't think the Knowledge skills have a very good explanation on how they might be used mechanically. I really think there should be a tangible example given other than the text descriptions. Some players will just take the sort of general suggestions of how Knowledge should be used and never assign a tangible mechanical benefit. I try to use them as a way to tack on a sort of session long Assist Maneuver myself. Make it narrow in focus of course, but still there should be some point to it. This talent could broaden that benefit because of the Player's focus in the area imo.

I think if you follow many of the examples in the published adventures, they present the idea of coming up with a kind of "menu" of results based on successes.

Our new campaign is based around exploration, so when I'm making notes for their session, I jot down such a menu based on Knowledge rolls the players might make.

For example, our recent adventure involves the exploration of an ancient temple on the planet Christophsis. Here are the notes I wrote up:

Progressions I do understand the way Knowledge is used in that regard, it's just boring and really of not particularly much value imo. I'd prefer to use this talent as an avenue so that a player with Knowledge Lore for instance does a bunch of research related to traps in ancient tombs of Xim the Despot and they roll a Triumph giving everyone a boost die to actions related to any traps they come across, or a Xenology briefing on Rancors and a Triumph is rolled so everyone gets a boost die to combat checks, something like that to place far more value mechanically on a knowledge skill based character.

Whatever floats your boat.

In our campaign, my wife's character is going to be providing access to a lot of useful information based on the ruins they explore or the relics they're looking for. Not necessarily specific mechanical details like Boost dice, but I can definitely see using a benefit like that in the case you described, where the Explorer knows details of the kinds of traps used in the ancient tomb.

My overall plan is to use the results of the knowledge checks to give the players more information to go on when they're exploring and analyzing the stuff they discover. Like, a character got enough successes to have heard that droids were looking for lightsaber crystals on Christophsis, so the greedy Doctor made a point to start looking for lightsaber crystals in the ruins, with an eye toward possibly selling them.

I just think in general if the Knowledge based specializations could provide more tangible mechanical benefit it would broaden their appeal. I'd say the most use currently would probably be in buying and selling stuff in the game and knowing where to go to do that. My only point is that a player has to make a mechanical roll with a Knowledge skill and then the reward for the effort or being good at it is to be told some extra storyline. Obviously combat checks lead to damage. Mechanic checks to recovered droids, vehicles repaired, Medicine wounds healed, Cool initiative, gambling etc, it seems like there is a mechanical benefit to having most other skills. The results of Knowledge skills currently just strike me as something I would have typically just written into an adventure and had players discover as a consequence of play.

Well, again, whatever works for you. I'm pretty happy with it the way it is.

"Some extra storyline"--the storyline is, in fact, what most of my group is playing for, after all.

You need more than one rank for the mechanical effect to shine. Once you're rank 2, then 1 triumph equals 2 successes. I don't think the mechanical effect of the talent precludes still having the narrative effect of the triumph kick in as well on a roll.

I guess that was my main thought--on a roll which is already a success, then adding 2 more Successes might not be as important as the narrative effect of a Triumph, which I'd be pretty generous about.

I think I'll play it like you suggest, where even if you spend the Triumph to add the successes to your roll, it still can provide some benefits in terms of the flavor and depth of information the check reveals.

It's more options, not a killer app.

It's not always going to be the option to choose, but sometimes those successes can make the difference between a failed roll and a successful one.

Often it is better to succeed than to fail and have a Triumph to spend on some perk that still doesn't negate the failure.

One example of Knowledge skills providing mechanical benefit I have heard on Skill Monkey is:

Knowledge (Xenology) can be used when encountering an unfamiliar species. Succeeding can grant knowledge or deduction to the group that helps other rolls. By learning their customs or having references of similar customs, a successful Knowledge check can give clues about how to speak/interact/behave around said species, adding boosts/removing setback dice on Charm/Coercion/Negotiation rolls versus that species.

So the Colonist/Scholar uses a check to inform the party scoundrel about how to best approach a species when trying to negotiate a spice deal, etc. garnering mechanical boons in the process.

I have used Knowledge Underworld to have our party Ex/BGH take in his surroundings at a meeting with the Hutt at the beginning of "Debts to Pay." Using his knowledge of Hutt Underworld Hierarchy, he was able to determine that this Hutt was not particularly high-ranking, and that moreover, he might be in need of the funds waiting at the Oridium Mine, as his muscle was understaffed.

In that example, I could have used Vigilance, Perception or Streetwise to accomplish the same goal. That's what I like about the system though. The PC in question chose that Knowledge skill, as he felt it was more appropriate to his character at that moment. In a similar instance elsewhere, he may choose to use a different skill. Context is important.

Knowledge skills are hit or miss - they are very much like the Explorer Specialization in the CRB: Good for Sandboxes, not so good for on the rails. Typically, what I'll do is in my Sandboxes Knowledge skills are excellent; if the players use Knowledge correctly, it aids them greatly in finding stuff for missions, or using Knowledge skills to upgrade checks or gain boost dice. This is sort of my 'homebrew' idea for knowledge usage, as to me if someone makes a successful check to 'know more about something' I feel that any other rolls they do regarding that 'something' should have more chances to succeed than if the know nothing about that 'something'.