If you want ground combat incorporated into an X-Wing game, keep in mind that infantry units probably don't even merit their own maneuver dials. An AT-AT would be a medium base vehicle while AT-STs and T-47s would be on smalls, and infantry would probably just be deployable tokens (like bomb upgrade cards, but persistent and independent).

I imagine infantry units to be squads of 5 on a large base set much like the 5 pips on a die. The front two would be crouched and firing, the middle one would be the leader in some action pose, while the back two would be standing up and firing to the back. I envision the base would be rotated to the position that the unit is taking (i.e. if you are using an action to crouch then the two crouching units would be rotated to the front. If you were firing on the move then the two standing up and firing would be rotated to the front when the base was placed.)

Infantry would be in units of 5 on a 2x2 base. The terrain would be like a tile set (dual sided) with areas that affect the unit being coloured. Vehicles would be on a 2x2 base or larger. They would all have a maneuver dial that would give various 1 moves and different 0 moves (for crouch and such) with vehicles having more maneuvers to choose from.

I have not played DUST but I was looking at keeping the system like the Flightpath so that the two could work in concert if a player wanted to.

That sounds interesting with the rotating bases. Do you still want the infantry to be approximately the same scale as the X wing ships? That would be about 6mm for infantry figures.

To best keep the theme of the X Wing game the available actions could be focus, evade and possibly boost for charging. As we already have tokens for these I think that this is a little easier than rotating a base. Their movement could dictate their available actions. Basically if they remain stationary they should be better at evading or shooting (focussing) or recovering from stress.

Would each infantry base need it's own card showing it's basic stats? Possibly you buy a Platoon of 4 stands each with 5 troop figures. Each individual figure would therefore represent about 2 people. Then for each uncancelled hit you just lose an infantry base. The Platoon would act together but be made up of several bases.

Maybe each base has an Attack of 1, so if 3 bases are shooting you could roll these all together in one attack. Maybe the basic infantry unit gets a Defense of 2. This could be increased if they are in cover or are in entrenchments.

I think terrain can be much like any other miniature wargame . It would be cool to have 3D hills, forests, buildings etc... Then just say "these forests are difficult terrain so all white maneuvers count as red maneuvers for wheeled vehicles".

I'm liking the possibility of terrain rules... would make things interesting since the Rebellion usually made use of hovering speeders and tanks for their ground combat vehicles while the Empire has the iconic walker units. I somehow see the AT-ST as being cheaper but with more armour to compensate over the slightly better and shielded tanks that the Alliance would make use of.

At the moment my main interest is in a Hoth style battle as I am building a collection of suitable minis for this:

Rebels

T-47 snowspeeders x 12

Anti-Infantry Laser Towers x 9

Anti-Vehicle Lasers x 6

Infantry

Tauntaun Riders

Empire

AT-ATs x 6

AT-STs x 3

Infantry

Imperial walkers have some advantages over the rupulsor-lift vehicles as far as breaching certain shields AFAIK but are obviously slower. The "Chicken Walkers" should be as movable as regular infantry. Some new ideas may be needed to represent different Armored targets. The walkers do not have shields but should have some degree of immunity to infantry fire.

I thought of that they didn't have evade dice, but instead had an armor rating, which would automatically bypass a certain amount of damage much like the Reinforce action for large ships does. I figure an AT-ST would have a rating of 1, while an AT-AT would have a rating of 2. This would prevent infantry for damaging them (as I feel they should have 1 attack die by default that can fire on range 2, and have 2 attack at range 1) but also make the AT-AT that much of a challenge to Rebel airforces, such as speeders and turrets.

So if I understand an AT-AT with a rating of 2 ignores 2 hits per attack? This would apply to flying ships as well? The snowspeeders probably have an Attack of 2 so would only roll 3 dice at range 1. That seems fair as they were pretty much unable to hurt them.

That's really what I was going for. :3

Some ideas for stats I am tinkering with:

AT-AT

4 Attack

0 Defense

10 Hull

2 Armor

Actions: Target Lock

Being a ground unit I don't think it could use it's Target Lock for aerial targets only against ground targets. Being a big lumbering machine I think it probably doesn't need Focus.

Attacks that roll a critical against it may bypass the Armor instead?

AT-ST

2 Attack

1 Defense

2 Hull

1 Armor

Actions: Focus

Not sure if this should get a Target Lock as it is mainly an anti-infantry platform.

T-47 Snowspeeder

2 Attack

3 Defense

2 Hull

0 Shields

Actions: Focus, Target Lock, Evade

These are smaller than A Wings but with a 2 man crew. They could use either an X Wing or Z-95 dial, depending on what this is. It would also get a secondary rear firing weapon of either a light laser (1 Attack) or a tow cable.

No problem with that. But Flyers should roll double defence dice vs Ground units.

If FFG wanted to do a ground combat game for star wars with infantry squads and walkers, would Dust Warfare not make a more sensible backbone?

WWII With Walking Tanks is pretty close to Star Wars to start with....

THIS...

The mechanics are already there, plus a 1:48 scale Star Wars game would be beautiful.

Kit bashing would be a dream sense that is how they built all of the Star Wars studio models anyway.

Loving the sound of all this. If I may voice an opinion, I'd go for 1/270 scale for ground units if the aim is to have this as an added mechanic to X-Wing itself.

Completely different game, however, I'd say no smaller than 1/72 scale and no bigger than 1/48.

Imagine if we could get the best of all ( p.s. I'm looking for a 40K alternative )

1/48 scale miniatures for use with Star Wars RPG. Perhaps even a Dust Tactics style skirmish game.

Then the 1/270 scale for massive land battles and use with X-Wing.

• Your RPG characters carry out their mission.
• Now they are an objective marker in a big battle as they try to flee to their transport.
• X-Wing game in which the transport needs to get from one side of the board to the other.

If FFG did this, I'd quit 40K tomorrow and throw my money at them.

What if for this ground based combat version vehicles keep the standard size or large size X-Wing bases, based off their size. With the vehicles all being at 1/270 scale while the infantry may be on a slightly larger scale so they are easier to see and or produce?

The infantry are then on a octagonal base where the various maneuvers can be placed with the dial essentially reflecting the ease and difficulty of 1 speed maneuvers in these various directions. This allows them to be more mobile then the more straight forward heavy weapons and walkers. Perhaps taking into account of their limited vision by limiting them to attacking targets at range 2.

So then perhaps a Storm trooper and Rebel Squad would statistically look like this, with the new armor rating essentially being what some posted before about ignore "X" number of hits.

Storm Troopers:

Attack: 1

Evade: 1

Health: 3

Armor: 1

Rebel Soldiers:

Attack: 1

Evade: 2

Health: 3

Armor: 0

This way Storm troopers get the EU treatment of having one of the best infantry armors at the expense of a less maneuverable dial leading them to get more stressed or since this is a ground combat game how about the term exhaustion? While the Rebel group is more mobile but not as well equipped and more suited for hit and run tactics.

I don't think you'd need/want a separate system, just figure out a way of including ground based combat in the current game. After all, the fighters worked in atmosphere, it would be crazy to have a ground based game and not use Ywings and Bombers for example.

I like the idea of differentiating between Stormtroopers and Rebels and the different Armor trait is a fair way to do this. However Stormtrooper armor may only be effective versus infantry weapons as opposed to being strafed by an X-Wing!

Infantry combat could be done in a couple of ways. If it is kept like X-Wing then each infantry stand shoots separately at a single enemy target. If a Rebel infantry scores a hit on a Stormtrooper with Armor 1 then this would cause no damage and could make the Stormtroopers too powerful.

Maybe each infantry stand should only have 1 Health? Then if a unit consists of 4 stands it can take 4 hits before being wiped out and it's combat effectiveness is lost as it takes casualties as it has less stands to fight.

An alternative shooting idea could have several infantry stands combine their firepower at an enemy unit also made up of several stands. The type of infantry would determine the number of Defense dice rolled and for each failed attempt a stand could be lost.

So if 4 Rebel stands fire at range 2 at 4 Stormtrooper stands they would roll 4 Attack dice. They score 3 hits. The Stormtroopers roll 1 Defense die and get an evade. So 2 hits are scored but the Stormtrooper Armor ignores the first hit, So 1 hit is done and one stand is lost.

In this example using Stormtroopers their Armor is useful but not "over the top".

Standard infantry weapons could have an Attack value of 1 and a range of 2. So at range 1 they woul get the +1 Attack die modifier.

There could be different skill levels for troops with would effect their activation just like a pilot's PS. Possibly 3 levels: Conscript/Trained/Veteran with a number value of 1/3/5 for example. Then specialised troops could have a +1 or so if they are scouts etc...

Will need to playtest some of these concepts as there are pros and cons for adding complexity.

But Stormtrooper armour is rubbish - can't even deflect primitive projectiles!

In universe it is supposed to be the best armor available. Its fairly lightweight, more comfortable then Clone armor, and more importantly stops small arms blaster bolts. Essentially like "bulletproof" vests they help but only so much.

But Stormtrooper armour is rubbish - can't even deflect primitive projectiles!

I thought that was just George Lucas's plot that couldn't deflect them. Stormy armor was top tier, only bested by things like Mandalorian armor and the older Clone Armor (esp. Katarn armor)

Changing the subject a bit' but I hope that when Rebels comes out it will once again portray Stormtroopers the way they were shown in Episode IV, as the elite soldiers of the Empire, not as you see them in Episode VI.

Even in Episode IV they could only hit people if they were were stood still in a shiny white corridor, anyone running away was safe! Face it, they were never right impressive. Now the clones on the other hand, they could shoot Jedi!

True. They still need to be more like they should have been. You know: "Only Imperial Stormtroopers could be so accurate."

Lets see. FFG has the Battlelore game and the star wars game licence.

I haven't tried the 2nd ed of battlelore but 1st ed was a fast simple system, had hidden orders, special characters, and expandable.

Seem like it would fit in nicely.

I'd love to see a ground-based game, like 40k. Always wanted to get into it, just can't really afford it. But if it were star wars, perhaps...

I wish i could like this 100 times. I know.......

Like,like,like,like,like,like,like,like,like,like x 10

Actually West End Games did a set of rules back in 1991 for skirmishing with 25mm figures. It was designed to work in with their first edition of the roleplaying game, so if you were playing the RPG and wanted to continue into an epic battle for the finale to your adventure, you could transition your characters to the battle system. Jedi Knights with lightsabers, Bounty Hunters with jet packs, Stormtroopers a plenty - it was all there. It used standard D6s and a regular tape measure. Worked a treat, but I haven't seen it for many years.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars_Miniatures_Battles

Have. Love it. Havnt played in years

Have. Love it. Havnt played in years

Well, don't leave it to gather dust. Get it out and give it another bash!

Some interesting ideas being thrown around here. One thing you want to avoid is complexity when it comes to infantry combat. It will slow things down. The ideal is to keep the infantry combat short and sweet ( remember these guys will only be 6mm tall at 1/270 scale ). Don't give them hit/health points, once they're hit, they're gone. Armoured vehicles and walkers should be the main event. Any starfighters are likely to be in a supporting role.

Before figuring out the combat mechanic, you need to back up and figure out the game mechanic and how combat fits into it. Is Pilot Skill going to apply to ground units in the same way we're used to? Command Skill instead maybe. That would sort out the order of play to some extent. Morale is something to consider also. Units should not fight to the last man, it just doesn't happen. Hard cover (buildings, bunkers), soft cover (trees, jungle), terrain types (grassland, urban, water), there's lots of extra things to take into account.

The tricky bit is bringing balance to everything. Indeed, an infantry unit shouldn't be able to bring down a walker or a starfighter, but that's where a hero upgrade might come in. Luke did manage to destroy an AT-AT, but only after hacking a hole in it with his lightsabre ( truly heroic action there ).

I would avoid trying to use the ship bases and manoeuvre templates for ground units. The templates dictate fighter moves and ground vehicles just don't move like them. Plus it's a pet peeve of mine about vehicles on bases - don't like 'em, never have. Plus in this scale, some of the vehicles just aren't going to fit on them properly. An AT-AT should work out to about 3" long and high, but 3/4" wide. Stick it on a large base and there's a lot of wasted space there.

You can probably forget about the 3'x3' play area too, it's simply not going to be big enough. I play Epic Armageddon (6mm) on a 4'x8' table and it fits nicely. Lots of scenery and buildings to hide in and around.

Another thing to keep in mind is the size of the battle. If you have too many elements on table it will slow down the game if it's too complex. The success of X-Wing is in it's simple and quick system.