He's been extra good since Self-Preservation was around really. Which has been forever for me since I got into the game after both were out. He fell from favor for me due to too many enemies having high enough attack or boosts from shadow cards that the risk of killing him got to high. And resource generation isn't exactly lacking in Leadership anyways.

If I'm making a deck for a 4 player group though, he's an excellent choice since the best cards are generally taken within the first 2 decks.

And ent draught can cheaply help with the necessary HP to not get clobbered.

Self Preservation was in the Core Set, same as Gloin...

On a similar note, is it safe to say that with the new Denethor, Theodred is effectively dead? I always thought he was a terrible hero, even back in the Core Set days, since you were using a hero slot (and 8 threat cost) to commit 1 willpower to the quest, plus some extra resources on the side. Whoop-dee-doo.

You say that like resource generation isn't one of the most powerful effects in the game.

And no. Theodred is definitely not dead.

Dwarven Rage v2:

Resource generation is definitely not the most powerful effect in the game. I'll take action advantage over it any day of the week.

Resource generation is definitely not the most powerful effect in the game. I'll take action advantage over it any day of the week.

I said 'one of'. Card draw is the most powerful.

That's fair. I love me some Erestor.

Self Preservation was in the Core Set, same as Gloin...

The core and the first two cycles came in the FedEx set. So I have a hard time remembering exactly what came out when.

Dwarven Rage v2:

How about making it so that the attached character cannot be healed while there are resource tokens on Dwarven Rage... that way you can't damage him, heal him, damage him again, heal him again, etc. It works to ensure that you can't just stack lots of healing, you also need to stack health.

I'm not really sure though...

Maybe make it so he can only be healed by player cards with the dwarf trait and then make a dwarf ally that can heal...

Honestly i don't know if I'd possible at all to make it usable with Gloin without making it powerful.

The good thing about making this compatible with Gloin is that Gloin's stats are already terrible, so giving him an action is worth much, much less than giving an action to, say, Gimli.

Two dwarfen allies are still missing ...

Longbeart-Healer

Action: Exhaust <ALLY> and discard X cards from your deck to heal X points of damage of a character/hero.

Longbeart-Geologist

Passive: Before discarding any cards from top of your deck, exhaust <ALLY> to look at the top X+1 top cards of your deck and put them back in any order. X is the number of cards you have to discard.

With these two allies i can get rid of stargazer and the warden in a only-dwarven-deck.

On a similar note, is it safe to say that with the new Denethor, Theodred is effectively dead? I always thought he was a terrible hero, even back in the Core Set days, since you were using a hero slot (and 8 threat cost) to commit 1 willpower to the quest, plus some extra resources on the side. Whoop-dee-doo.

Theodred has been, in my opinion, one of the top 10 heroes in this game for its whole life, so the release of Denethor isn't going to suddenly make him a dead hero. Even if Denethor was an exact copy of Theodred with better willpower, Theodred would still see play when someone else is using Denethor. Denethor's starting resources are hugely powerful, and the toughest part of this game is getting set up, but there are plenty of slow-burn decks that take longer to set up and would gladly take a resource every turn for 10+ rounds instead of 2 extra resources one time.

Now I'm intrigued. If Seastan says he's not a waste of a hero spot maybe I should dig him out.

Why do you think he's so good?

Now I'm intrigued. If Seastan says he's not a waste of a hero spot maybe I should dig him out.

Why do you think he's so good?

Resource generation. Is. One of. The most powerful effects in the game.

Why do you think he's so good?

Theodred is also tied for lowest threat leadership hero. Splashing leadership for 8 threat is always solid, not to mention the resource generation (and smoothing in a tri-sphere).

I would say that Actually Having Stats That Can Do Something is one of the most powerful effects in the game.

And if you're splashing Leadership, Sam Gamgee and Denethor are much more appealing options, given that they can do stuff (plus Denethor has resource generation).

Mablung is a better hero in every conceivable way.

Would you have an attachment to a hero that says

Setup: Raise your threat by 8. You can only have 2 actual heroes.

Attached hero generates an extra leadership resource each round.

Oh yeah, and commit 1 willpower to the quest as well.

?

I would say that Actually Having Stats That Can Do Something is one of the most powerful effects in the game.

And if you're splashing Leadership, Sam Gamgee and Denethor are much more appealing options, given that they can do stuff (plus Denethor has resource generation).

Mablung is a better hero in every conceivable way.

Would you have an attachment to a hero that says

Setup: Raise your threat by 8. You can only have 2 actual heroes.

Attached hero generates an extra leadership resource each round.

Oh yeah, and commit 1 willpower to the quest as well.

?

Yeah, i think Theodred is bad, but not SO bad to be unplayable. He NEED to quest, quest for only 1, can only give to people that is also questing and turn 1 setup his resource don´t come in (turn 1 and 2 are the most important turns of the game).

In my personal Errata (link in my signature) i wanted to give him +1WP for -1ATK or maybe -1DEF, maybe even -1HP. But people think he is good as written, which he is, but he feels bad compared to the good heroes we have.

Theodred (and the extra resource he produces) are an integral part of my favorite Rohan deck:

http://ringsdb.com/decklist/view/1002/mustering-the-rohirrim-modern-rohan-rush-1.0

Sometimes I put Snowmane on him instead of his father. He makes a great combo with Heir of Mardil, too.

Denethor wouldn't provide the smoothing I need here.

Burst resource gains are better for different things when compared to consistent additional resource generation. So it depends on what you are building, will determine which strategy better suits your needs.

That said, sure I'd like him more if he was stronger, but that could be said about any character really.

He is only 1 WP, and is taking up your hero slot basically for a +1 resource and a 1 WP. So I can see why you compare it to that attachment you suggested earlier. Except a body with HP and capacity to get better stats will almost always be preferable to an attachment like that. With Sword that was Broken and Faramir, he is now 3 WP and generates an extra resource a turn. Something you couldn't achieve with the attachment. This benefit can be used to smooth resources in a multi-sphere deck or to help out your friends in a multiplayer game. He's not lighting any worlds on fire. But he is still a solid and useful hero.

Denethor's ability to resource smooth is also more restrictive than Theodreds and you have to give up Denethor's resource instead of generating a new one.

Here are the cards that generate resources:

HEROES:

Amarthiul (+1 per turn when engaged with 2+ enemies)

Denethor (+2 at start of game)

Gloin (+x where x is damage)

Theodred (+1 per turn when questing)

Thorin (+1 per turn with 5 dwarves)

Arwen (+1 per turn when discarding a card)

Mablung (+1 per phase when engaging an enemy)

ALLIES:

Gloin (+2 when played with 5 dwarves)

Squire of the Citadel (+1 to Gondor upon death)

Envoy of Pelargir (+1 when entering play to Gondor or Noble)

Radagast (+1 per turn, only for Creatures)

Treebeard (+1 per turn, only for Ents)

ATTACHMENTS:

Ranger Provisions (+1 per hero after location is explored)

Steward of Gondor (+2 per turn)

Sword of Numenor (+1 per round after killing an enemy of 5+ HP)

The Day's Rising (+1 per round after sentinel takes no damage on defense)

Love of Tales (+1 per round after Song card is played)

Miruvor (+1 when discarded - if that option is chosen)

Horn of Gondor (+1 per character destroyed)

Gandalf's Staff (+1 per round, if you choose that option)

Keys of Orthanc (+1 per round after doom card)

Resourceful (+1 per round, 4 cost unless in secrecy)

EVENTS:

Captain's Wisdom (+2 after exhausting a Noble during the resource phase)

Gaining Strength (+1 if you already have 2)

Legacy of Numenor (+3 per player - assuming 3 heroes each)

Tighten Our Belts (+x in the refresh phase where X is the number of heroes you didn't spend resources from)

We are Not Idle (+x where X is the number of Dwarf characters exhausted)

Wealth of Gondor (+1 to a Gondor hero)

Hidden Cache (+2 only if discarded from deck)

Keen as Lances (+2 - if you choose this option, and cost varies on Victory Display)

White Council (+1 if that option is chosen)

Theodred is quiet simply the most reliable resource accelerator in the game, next to Arwen. Everything else is conditional up drawing it, having it in play at the right time, or having cards to discard (Arwen). The difference is, you are basically giving up a "flashy" or "more useful" hero in order to make the deck itself more reliable and to run more smoothly with consistent resource gains. And to be fair, I don't use him that often, because I'd rather have flashy heroes myself.

Sorry for getting this thread so far off topic from card creations. Perhaps this should get moved to another thread?

I'd say that Mablung is more reliable (especially with Tactics Aragorn) in a dedicated combat deck.

Ranger Provisions is a super duper underrated card.

Also sorry for derailing the thread.

I'm curious Edheliad--why Elladan secrecy but not Elrohir?

Thematically I think secrecy makes sense for them both given their overall roles in the books, but there aren't any secrecy cards in Tactics afaik so that wouldn't have fit.

So it's secretive Houses of Healing Elladan and battle-ready Black Gate Elrohir.

This seems like it would be a good fit for Lore because that's the sphere with all the victory display shenanigans.

The whole "after an enemy is dealt a shadow card" thing seems extraneous, since you're not actually doing anything with that shadow card. (Plus, it could lead to shenanigans with shadow chaining in Siege of Cair Andros.) Did you just put that there to make sure it's played at the beginning of the combat phase, when enemies are dealt shadow cards? If so, maybe it would be more streamlined to use the same wording on Tireless Hunters:

Play only before the resolving enemy attacks step.

Combat Action: Add this card and a ready unique Noldor character you control to the victory display to choose and add an enemy engaged with a player to the victory display.

Or maybe:

Play only before the resolving enemy attacks step.

Combat Action: Add this card, a ready unique Noldor character you control, and an enemy engaged with a player to the victory display.

This appears to have the same effect but in much fewer words.

The shadow card thing is there for theme as much as anything, to make the action seem more like a last-gasp sacrificial action like that of Ecthelion, Glorfindel & Gil-Galad.

But I agree it could be more elegantly worded. There is at least one enemy in the quests I've played that enters combat and draws a shadow card slightly out of sequence, but that wasn't the main intention, and I don't know how common that is through all the quests I haven't played.

Any more thoughts on the Elladan card? I was trying to make something that compliments the Elrohir hero specifically without being completely useless on its own; sort of a Rivendell Scout on steroids. The heal is supposed to be quite bad as it's out of normal healing sphere, benefits from his father's power, and the discard cost can be useful in the right sorts of deck (coincidentally I'm playing with one right now...)

I think secrecy would work just fine on Elrohir. He may then be the only Tactics secrecy card, but Merry is pretty good in secrecy decks, so I think some support for that would be nice. I'm not sure I like the +2wp for them. I'd prefer that they stuck with their previous bonuses.

I also think Elladan would be good to throw into the Lore sphere.

I like this card being a response to the shadow card being added. It allows it to be used outside of combat phase, like when an enemy is forced to make an immediate attack from the staging area. I also agree that it would probably fit better in Lore.

It might be better to just have it fire when a unique Noldor character is declared as a defender. Also the card should target non-unique enemies as well.

Take all of these with a grain of salt. They're obviously just my opinion.