Arwen discards Elven Light to give somebody 1 resource. He gains 1 resource. +2 resources gained from 1 card that can't be played from hand anyways. Or, Arwen discards Elven Light to give him +1 resource, and he triggers, paying a resource, to draw a card.

Powerful, sure, but utterly broken? Is the difference between four and five in the first round really that important? After the first planning phase, this guy doesn't generate any more resources than Theodred would.

This guy certainly works better with Arwen/Erestor/Cirdan than Theodred would, since it doesn't require him to use his weakest stat and he also benefits from being a Noldor. But outside of a Noldor deck (or with Eowyn) his big ability isn't worth much. Theodred is weaker in Noldor decks and better just about everywhere else, and isn't remotely broken.

If his ability weren't limited to once per round, then he could get utterly broken.

Arwen discards Elven Light to give somebody 1 resource. He gains 1 resource. +2 resources gained from 1 card that can't be played from hand anyways. Or, Arwen discards Elven Light to give him +1 resource, and he triggers, paying a resource, to draw a card.

Arwen/Elven Light is powerful, certainly. In the first case, you get two resources instead of one -- powerful, but that's his only trick. Arwen alone can generate a resource from a card that wants to be in the discard. He alone can't discard.

In the second case, comboing his resource for card ability with Arwen's discard for resource ability allowed you to turn a card into ... a card. Can't say I'm impressed with that at all. Arwen could just give herself the resource, play Elven-light, and get elven light back to discard again plus the extra card.

So where does the broken come in?

I think that utterly the game does not need the flexibility and power of Newra.

Maybe he isn't as broken as Gandalf or Glorfindel, but (with any of couple of other heroes) can easily generate 1 resource in the first planning phase (so it's better than Theodred/Thorin (you can pay for allies/attachments in the first turn) and costs less threat than Theoden or Grima) and in the later turns when you have enough resources he can draw you cards. Even Arwen requires Elven Light for this, and I often couldn't get it in my hand till turn 6-7. Still, I think that +1 threat or sth like this would be enough to balance him.

Maybe he isn't as broken as Gandalf or Glorfindel, but (with any of couple of other heroes) can easily generate 1 resource in the first planning phase (so it's better than Theodred/Thorin (you can pay for allies/attachments in the first turn) and costs less threat than Theoden or Grima) and in the later turns when you have enough resources he can draw you cards. Even Arwen requires Elven Light for this, and I often couldn't get it in my hand till turn 6-7. Still, I think that +1 threat or sth like this would be enough to balance him.

Yes, he can reliably generate 1 resource in the first planning phase -- if he's paired with Cirdan or Arwen, the only two heroes that discard by the planning phase, and Arwen gives you a resource herself. Cirdan and Arwen both have threat be the sum of stats, so why does this guy need +1 threat to be balanced? Arwen has to discard a card for her resource, but she can redirect it *and* she doesn't require an enabler to trigger *and* she's in sphere for Elven-light and Silver Harp.

Outside of the first planning phase, Theodred matches the resource generation and can redirect his resource, this guy's advantage is not being forced to quest. But Theodred's useful in a much wider variety of decks. He's clearly better than Thorin in the first round, overall I'd rather have Thorin, who with assorted leadership dwarf toys can make better use of his resources than 1 card for 1 resource. Mablung can actually get a turn one planning phase resource in combination with Dunedain Hunter, and his resource generation is unlimited, so depending on the number of players and the quest he could generate more resources and make good use of it with in-sphere Gondorian Fire.

Grima makes you pay for his discount in threat, but can discount any card and with Keys of Orthanc can generate resources while doing it. He has the same starting threat.

SpTheoden is higher threat, but like Grima can discount any sphere. And with Herugrim/Snowmane in-sphere, he's got awesome potential.

The ability to turn resources into cards later in the game, after he's piled up resources, still leaves me cold. You're limited to one extra card and it costs you a resource.

I'm not saying this would be a weak hero. His ability works beautifully with two of the best Noldor heroes, and I'd love to see a 3 defense Lore elf with a threat under ten. I'm just saying that I don't think he's unbalanced, let alone broken. And I think he might be more interesting if his ability was something other than "make Arwen/Cirdan/Erestor/Eowyn even better". Maybe something that plays up his strong defense, like:

Combat action: discard a card from hand to ready hero and discard a shadow card from an engaged enemy (limit once per round).

I agree with most. Very powerful, especially in the right decks, but honestly +1 card or +1 resource per round isn't OP.

Some random Noldor stuff from the top of my head.

Wow the Rivendell Patrol is really great in Noldor decks but not too strong, really really like that ability. Turns the discard into a benefit but isn't overpowered and you only get her for that turn then she dissapears. Perhaps like Lords of the Eldar though she should be placed on the bottom of your deck rather than shuffled in? If you run 3 copies you could fairly regularly get a free ally for the round just by discarding it. The card draw featured in most Noldor decks is pretty bonkers and allows you to work through your deck quite quickly. Maybe give her ranged to slightly compensate for the fact she goes to the bottom instead of just shuffled in? Either way really really like the design and concept behind this card!!! I actually really hope they make something similar in this cycle!

Not sure how I feel about Eternal Love and Higher Purpose. At first I thought Eternal Love was overpowered but noticed it is not only limit 1 per deck but can also only be played from the discard pile... I think with these two limitations it probably is balanced.

It can certainly provide quite a bit of a threat reduction whilst also reshuffling your entire discard pile back into your deck.

Then again for discard and Noldor decks it may not actually be THAT beneficial shuffling your discard into your deck because it will remove Lords of the Eldar from the discard pile, will stop any boosts to the allies that get buffed based on what the top card of your deck is etc. Even if you shuffled 40 of your 50 cards back into your deck its a threat reduction of 8 which isn't super high but at the same time is definitely quite powerful. Maybe there should be a limit on how much it can reduce threat by? Perhaps 6? 6 threat reduction and reshuffling your entire discard back into your deck for 1 resource is one well of a deal, certainly far better than Will of the West.... then again limit 1... hmmm.. great idea though.

Higher Purpose now that I am thinking about it more actually seems fairly balanced as well because it costs 1 to begin with... so even at its max of 3 resources you still really only gain 2. Whats more you need at least 16 cards in your discard pile including this one to make it work. It is almost like a more restrictive Noldor version of Steward, adds two resources and is in leadership. The only issue is running this card combined with Steward might ramp a bit too much but again you need to have a healthy discard and need to get this card into your discard as well and you can only pull it off 3 times unless you get to the bottom of your deck. I like it but it doesn't compare to Steward which although unthematic is already amazing in Noldor decks. I do really like this card though just not sure if I would use it... another small setback is that resource acceleration is better early than late in a game as once most decks get rolling you usually have quite a few resources to play with whereas early game you need all the resources you can get your hands on. Unless you are running Erestor it may take at least 3 or 4 turns to get your discard pile to 15 cards.

Power Within is an interesting card, do you take a one or two resource boost early or do you save up and wind up getting like 5+ resources instead. I love the concept and choice you have to make but for 0 cost perhaps it is too powerful?

Then again something like Elf Stone can get out an ally for free and far easier, lets say someone like Haldir. 1 cost in lore and 1 additional quest point to the current location to play a 4 cost ally for free. Compare that to Power Within, you would need to wait a full 4 turns before being able to get those 4 resources and play Haldir. That is 3 more turns than something like Elf Stone could take and we know that A LOT can happen in 3 rounds. Now that I am more carefully considering the pros and cons of this card I think it is maybe even a tiny bit underpowered!

Finally the hero! Drofell has a great concept but honestly I think most Noldor decks other than perhaps those running Erestor won't be able to make much use of him. Yes Noldor rely upon discarding many cards but they also feature LOTS of card draw and recursion as well (Elven Light, Erestor (ally), Galadriel, Cirdan, Galdor (ally) and Cirdan for example) and even cards like Silver Harp which returns the first discarded card of your choice back to your hand each turn. Even when you do get down to just a few cards in hand if you have spare resources you can return Elven Light to your hand to draw a card which gives you +2 to your hand size... I just don't know how often most Noldor decks (except Erestor ones) will actually have no cards in hand but then again you can build around this guy. Maybe he is just not for me. I do like the minus - 1 def for each card in hand above 2 though, that is quite clever. If the second ability was something like "so long as the top card of your discard pile has a cost of 3/4 or higher Drofell does not exhaust to defend" then this would encourage you to discard high cost cards which isn't normally something you want to do but if you do you get a hero that doesn't exhaust to defend with sentinel that has high defensive stats.

This would combo insanely well with Lords of the Eldar and the Glorfindel ally. Discard Lords to boost Drofell and then the following turn play it when lower cost cards are going to end up on top of it anyway boosting Drofell yet again (and all other Noldor) but in another way. Let the first big enemy each turn kill your Glorfindel ally and then Drofell is boosted, next turn simply play Glorfindel from your discard and repeat, yes 5 spirit resources but if you are running multiple spirit heroes and resource acceleration like Arwen etc this could very well be a nice late game combo.

overall though man these are some of my favourite custom cards I've seen for this game and I really hope some of the Noldor cards we get in the current cycle are similar to some of these cards especially the ally. I want more cards we can play from the discard pile dammit! Even if they are more costly from the discard or have an additional cost or only last a round, whatever.

I too like the concept of the Patrol. Basically a Ranger of Cardolan but for Noldor.

Drofell on the other hand is straight up broken. With Erestor he can easily get Burning Brand turn 1 and with Protector of Lorien you could ensure an empty hand every combat phase. He can trivialize defense for all 4 players from the very start.

Just reminding you that those were from the top of my head, I spent around an hour or even less doing them, so there bound to be flaws.

I like how your opinions differed about the hero. Yes, the "does not exhausts to defend" thing can sure be abused with ease. I probably should remove that part and replace it with a triggered response that involves something discard-related

Actually, with Higher Purpose I had in mind the Wealth of Gondor, not Steward. Keep in mind that any hero that is Noldor or Noble can be chosen to gain those resources, even controlled by the other player.

Power Within cannot host more than 3 resources. It's probably too slow for the LotR's pace, yes. But who knows, it's just a 0-cost attachment which triggers off discarding stuff, which could simply net you 3 resources in 3 turns just for doing your thing. It will probably pretty effective in a high draw high discard deck.

Eternal Love is limit 1 per deck, and it's also heavily dependent on the amount of cards in your discard pile. There is no point in limiting the threat reduction, because to reduce your threat by, lets say, eight, you'll need at least 40 cards in your discard pile, and this stuff is not easily achievable. Plus, once you'll do it - it's gone, and it targets only yourself, you cannot do it for others.

Rivendell Patrol is great and the art is fire.

I like the overall concept of power within, but the execution seems to complex. I think just make it simple instead of connecting it to discard. I once had a similar card concept with progress. "Aid of Elboreth" Attach to the current quest. Limit one copy per quest. Add one progress to the card at the end of each round. Action: discard to move progress to attached quest.

I definitely think we need another option for shuffling discard into deck.

I don't see how Power Within is complex. It responds to a card being discarded, it exhaust to trigger the response, it holds the resources you simply move to your hero when the resource phase begins. There are effects in the actual game that are far more complex than this.

Complexity is also an aesthetic. I could say the card is too "busy" or cluttered. The effect is simple, but having two wordy responses and a clunky limit of 3 resources makes it an unappealing card aesthetically.

Elegance is a quality that I value in card design.

Don't know how I missed the limit of 3 on power within

DukeWellington, we have different parameters for defining card as a "busy" one, then To me, when I manage to fit the card text within the text box without bending the rules (changing the font size, changing the distance between lines, etc), then the card is just fine. And here I have even left some space free!

I'm not so sure we should be adding any more Will of the West sort of cards to the pool, especially in the same sphere. Other than that, my one big note is that I'd rather see that hero's ability and such on an ally than a hero.

I think the cards are great, especially the ally, but the hero is broken. As some already mentioned, you could easily defend all enemies for the rest of the game just together with a Galdor and Erestor.

Drawing both a burning brand and protector of lorien by first turn will be easy, and enemy attacks for 7> will do nothing.

Good ideas, however, too much strong

To put Burning Brand on him, you'll have to make him Lore first.

As for the reason why I made another shuffler back into the deck: First of all, it's limit 1 per deck and goes right into the victory display. Second, it's fit for discard aggressive decks as they may not afraid or attempt to keep that one in hand, just include it and it will eventually come out, and you'll be able to restock at least once per game.

What if he discarded a card from your hand or even the top of your deck to ready instead of simply not-exhausting when your hand was empty.

New boringly upgraded version of the hero and somethign completely insane.

Valinor Phalanx would've come in handy in some of those Angmar Awakened quests. Though it'd have to be cheated into play.

New boringly upgraded version of the hero and somethign completely insane.

If you don't want him boring give him some flashy ability. Exhaust him and discard a card from your hand to choose two enemies engaged with you. Combine their attacks and resolve their shadow cards as a single attack against you.

Valinor Phalanx is pretty sweet, but I think that with the number of cards that we have that can cheat an ally into play for free/cheap, they'd never create an ally that powerful. Interesting to think about though.

I have a question about it though: do you pull the cards from the top or the bottom of the discard pile to put in the deck, or do you choose which cards... It's not really clear.