ok this came up in my game today.

my pilot was blinded but I had a gunner.

pilot blinded says next time you attack roll no dice and flip card face down.

it does not say you don't get an attack.

this means your attack auto misses so it should trigger gunner card, right?

this means your attack auto misses so it should trigger gunner card, right?

Yes it does. See here .

The pilot is blinded so cant attack, the card is now resolved and gets flipped face down. As we know the Gunner card is a separate attack that is triggered any time where the first attack failed ie Did not hit. So blinded pilot, simultaneous fire, sucidal vader all trigger this separate attack.

The pilot is blinded so cant attack ...

He can and does attack. That's required for gunner and other cards to activate. He rolls zero dice during the attack.

So blinded pilot, simultaneous fire, sucidal vader all trigger this separate attack.

What?? Simultaneous Fire doesn't trigger the separate attack, nor does Vader regardless of how suicidal he's feeling. Neither is even an attack.

Pure gibberish

According to you or to FFG?

If only I had though to check my facts. Wait I did.

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/97928-vadergunner/page-3

Post #60

See Gunner does activate any time your first attack misses/fails to hit.

See Gunner does activate any time your first attack misses/fails to hit.

That statement is nearly true. It's not limited to the first attack. But that's a minor detail. More importantly, Buhallin was replying to the following. And what he said is correct.

So blinded pilot, simultaneous fire, sucidal vader all trigger this separate attack.

Blinded pilot is not an attack. Simultaneous fire is not an attack. Vader is not an attack. None of that triggers gunner.

Blinded pilot modifies an attack which can (and does) trigger gunner. Simultaneous fire allows an attack which can trigger gunner. Vader can be triggered by the gunner attack and/or by the same attack that triggers gunner.

In response to your questions:Rule Question:How does the gunner upgrade card work? In particular in simultaneous fire and or when vader is activated after a ship attacks destroying his own ship?

Can the Gunner activate when a ship is destroyed?This is touched on a bit with the FAQ, but essentially, you cannot use Vader if you do not have at least 1 hull remaining.If you perform an attack that misses, you may use Gunner. So, if the ship is already destroyed, perhaps from Simultaneous Attack rule or you had already used Vader to destroy your ship, you may still use Gunner.

So if you ship has 1 or 2 hull remaining, and you have both Gunner and Vader equipped, if the ship attacks and misses, you may choose to activate Vader or not. Either way, you may still perform your Gunner attack. If you chose not to use Vader after the first attack, you may still choose to do it after the second attack, but you couldn't do both.If you have the above equipped ship, but it has already been destroyed, but not removed due to Simultaneous Attack rule, you may choose to use Gunner if you missed, but you couldn't use Vader since you do not have enough hull to use his ability.

Thanks for playing!Frank BrooksAssociate Creative Content DeveloperFantasy Flight

So blinded pilot states the next time you attack you roll no dice.

This means the attack has failed or another way would be to say the attack did not hit.

Therefore the Gunner triggers because the card says after you preform an attack that does not hit.

The rules are simple after comparing dice if you have one or more cancelled dice the attack hit. If all the dice have been cancelled then the attack has failed. There are only two options, hit or failed to hit. If you attack with blinded pilot then the attack has no hits or critical hits to be cancelled so its a failed attack.

You probably need to take a deep breath, read what you wrote, and stop trying to defend something that's not even remotely what you said. dvor tried to explain why what you said made no sense, and was exactly right.

You listed one effect which modifies an attack, one rule which changes when a ship is removed, and one ability which triggers based on an attack. None of those are attacks. None of them trigger Gunner. You seem to have gotten so excited about posting you didn't bother to do so in a coherent manner.

What you probably meant is that Gunner has the capability to trigger in combination with each of those situations. Gunner can still trigger if the ship is suffering from a Blinded Pilot. It can still resolve even if the ship is due to be removed because of a simultaneous fire situation. And if you trigger Vader, destroying your own ship, Gunner still has a chance to resolve.

None of this is remotely close to what you actually said, though.

The pilot is blinded so cant attack, the card is now resolved and gets flipped face down. As we know the Gunner card is a separate attack that is triggered any time where the first attack failed ie Did not hit. So blinded pilot, simultaneous fire, sucidal vader all trigger this separate attack.

Yeah the problem here is you may know what you mean, but you're throwing around a lot of key terms somewhat indiscriminately.

"The pilot is blinded so can't attack..." False. He can attack; he just doesn't roll any dice the next time he attacks. If he couldn't attack, which is what you just said, Gunner would never come into play.

"Gunner card is a separate attack..." False. Gunner card is not an attack. Gunner is a card that allows you to make a primary weapon attack after an attack fails to hit.

"...triggered any time where the first attack failed ie Did not hit." Iffy at best. Gunner lets you make a primary weapon attack "After you perform an attack that does not hit." Attacks don't 'fail;' that's not a game term. And 'any time' is an awfully nebulous way of putting it. For example Gunner lets you make a primary weapon attack - what if that attack misses? If Gunner worked 'any time' an attack missed, you could Gunner again, and again, until you hit. But Gunner specifies "You cannot perform another attack this round," so 'any time' is misleading.

"So blinded pilot, simultaneous fire, sucidal vader all trigger this separate attack." False. None of those are attacks. None of them in and of themselves trigger Gunner. IF you make an attack, rolling no dice, while suffering the Blinded Pilot crit, that can trigger Gunner to allow you a primary weapon attack, yes.

Simultaneous fire - if you are making a simultaneous fire attack after suffering enough damage to be destroyed, and miss, yes, Gunner can do its thing and allow you to make a primary weapon attack while you're still on the board. But Simultaneous Fire in and of itself does not trigger Gunner any more than Blinded Pilot does.

Suicidal Vader - I'm honestly very confused why you dragged Vader into this. There is a question, which I won't get into here, regarding a complicated situation with Vader and simultaneous fire and Gunner, yes. A very specific set of circumstances that is causing some confusion. That's a whole other ball of wax and you can go find the pages of debate on it.

That said, Vader in no way triggers Gunner. Vader is not an attack. Vader is an effect that kicks in after you PERFORM an attack. It is generally believed that if you have Vader and Gunner, and your attack misses, you get to use Vader, and use Gunner, sure. But Vader is in no way, shape, or form, the trigger for Gunner; he is an effect that can go off at the same time (following an attack) as Gunner (if that attack also happened to miss).

Suicidal Vader - I'm honestly very confused why you dragged Vader into this. There is a question, which I won't get into here, regarding a complicated situation with Vader and simultaneous fire and Gunner, yes. A very specific set of circumstances that is causing some confusion. That's a whole other ball of wax and you can go find the pages of debate on it.

Vader/Gunner?

Sidetracking here but, could Jan modify a blinded pilot's attack to grant them a one die attack? Seems like a timing issue on if the pool is reduced to zero before or after Jan adds her die. But I don't have the exact wording of blinded pilot in front of me.

Blinded pilot does not reduce the attack to zero. It says you roll no dice. So Jan does not help.

Alright, thanks for the clarification.