Pretty sure the rule just means you have no garantee the TO will allow your modified ship models. Most TO's I know wouldn't have an issue with most of the mods I've seen though ... But, mod at your own risk, and realize a TO can disallow (bring back-up).

Pretty sure the rule just means you have no garantee the TO will allow your modified ship models. Most TO's I know wouldn't have an issue with most of the mods I've seen though ... But, mod at your own risk, and realize a TO can disallow (bring back-up).

Yes, a judicious application of the "Reasonable Person" rule here would go a long way towards increasing the visual appeal of the game, as well as upping the "fun" factor IMO. Unfortunately, tournament RULES are written with two things in mind:

1. Q: How can the manufacturer protect the integrity of the game AND their profit margin?

A: By hosting/sponsoring/encouraging tournaments (and other events) using only the "official" models and rules as written.*

2. Q: How to reduce complaints (usually by those few but vocal minorities who must win at all costs, in order to prove that "... theirs is the superior intellect...") and confusion?

A: Again, by enforcing the rules as written (which, of course, were written for that "lowest common denominator").

* SOME gaming companies are worse than others (wink, wink) and I do not think that FFG has slumped to that level.

Chris

to clear thing up for me, and maybe i missed it do you all mean mod in the physical sense as in change its looks, or Mod as in change its ability with new cards and specks?? for house play i don't care, but for tournament play i would be reluctant to play against some ship that was just created with specks from wookipediia or somebody's best guess? how would you know if its balanced correctly? or how would you know how to best exploit its weakness's in a game? if you have not seen its specks before hand? NOTE i just reread the FIRST PARAGRAPH..lol i wouldn't have any problems playing with a Physically modified ship.. unless someone shows up using a modified potato as a proxy Falcon or something along those lines.. lol

I think a certain level of conversion brings something to the game, an interest factor, something different.

The prolific YT conversions spring to mind, they are easily recognized as YT's and the card base screams it. I wouldn't really like to see completely alternate models, lets say Shapeway prints being represented as YT's in a tourney and I understand FFG's objections to that on a business level.

If you brought a converted YT or Firespray and it is still recognizable as such and you are using all the correct cards, base size and base cards, that would be sweet. Most of the ships FFG produce don't lend themselves to much more than a paint job anyway.

I see it both ways. In a touny, do you not ask what the other person is running? So you would know what it is from that. But the whole 3d printing thing has come out with so sweet models that I know people would love to use and I can see that ffg would not like that much.

I know I can't use my yt conversion as it's the snaptite model. But if I mod my shuttle or my yt that I bought from ffg, I feel I should be able to do with them what I feel. I was about to cut my dish down on my secondary yt. But I guess I have to keep it as it is. And my shuttle one will be heavily modded, so even though it will be cool, I don't see myself flying multi shuttle.

Magic: The Gathering has a similar rule on marking cards (alternate art/extended borders/ect.) for tournaments, but everyone knows you just need to show it to TO prior to using for approval. Fantasy Flight made a rule ... But TOs are the judge and enforcer of that rule ... Just check with them prior and don't be upset if they disallow (but if customized model is cool and recognizable I'd be surprised if not allowed TBH). Chill and Fly Casual Y'all...

I guess I just look at it as an opportunity for ffg to make a profit... someone wants to mod an official model... they make money on sales... and if you can showcase one of yours at an even then maybe it inspires someone to do one of their own..

I have taken the satellite dish from one of my YT-1300 (and repainted it). So i could not play it in an official tournament? And if it had just broken off?

I tell you what. If someone on a tournament told me i could not play that ship, i would tell him to have a nice one and mind his own business, if it was a judge, i would just shake my head as well as my opponents hand, take my miniatures and leave the table and the tournament. (And i have moderated X-wing tournaments myself. Some "rules" are to be seen with tolerance. No need to be a rules-nazi!)

If you can't recognize what type of ship it is, okay i would say don't allow it, but else...

I am of the opinion you should.

1. Use all official cards, bases etc

2. Use FFG produced ships

3. Still have the ship look like a variant of what it is supposed to be.

Beyond that, go nuts on the mod.

i wouldn't have any problems playing with a Physically modified ship.. unless someone shows up using a modified potato as a proxy Falcon or something along those lines.. lol

Can I run Darth Tater?

Luke Pie-Forker :-)

If you are supposed to use the mini `As is`, What about those people (like myself ) who have modded how their B-wings sit on the base by rotating the mini and altering the cockpit to match. By the rules this mini is no longer legal for tournaments.

All in all, I guess it will come down to your individual TO and his/her approval.. and as this is someone you either know, or will know many others there, it's a safe bet they won't turn away anything shy of a YT that looks like a cheese sandwich...

2. Q: How to reduce complaints (usually by those few but vocal minorities who must win at all costs, in order to prove that "... theirs is the superior intellect...") and confusion?

A: Again, by enforcing the rules as written (which, of course, were written for that "lowest common denominator").

Trying really hard here not to think I'd be happier if your mods meant you couldn't play. If you're even half as insulting in person, it'd be a depressingly miserable game indeed no matter how pretty.

The sense of entitlement carried by the modeling crowd is sometimes just crazy.

Have we established if repainting parts of a mini counts as a 'naughty' level of modding? I'd like to paint one of the x-wing's red details, as blue to represent a x-wing from wraith squadron (and to make it easier to tell them apart).

Repaints are no issue at all.

2. Q: How to reduce complaints (usually by those few but vocal minorities who must win at all costs, in order to prove that "... theirs is the superior intellect...") and confusion?

A: Again, by enforcing the rules as written (which, of course, were written for that "lowest common denominator").

Trying really hard here not to think I'd be happier if your mods meant you couldn't play. If you're even half as insulting in person, it'd be a depressingly miserable game indeed no matter how pretty.

The sense of entitlement carried by the modeling crowd is sometimes just crazy.

It's not entitlement..

I paid the money for these ships, I do with them as I please and in my group no one cares if they are painted differently.. typically it's my gear we use in our games.

I find your comment very insulting, as I, for one, am not above the rules set out. Broad all encompassing comments like this are uncalled for.

If and when I do attend a tourney, I hope the TO is open minded enough to look at what I have and decide if he will allow them. Should he make a blanket statement about the game pieces having to be original models, I would follow his instruction without complain t.

2. Q: How to reduce complaints (usually by those few but vocal minorities who must win at all costs, in order to prove that "... theirs is the superior intellect...") and confusion?

A: Again, by enforcing the rules as written (which, of course, were written for that "lowest common denominator").

Trying really hard here not to think I'd be happier if your mods meant you couldn't play. If you're even half as insulting in person, it'd be a depressingly miserable game indeed no matter how pretty.

The sense of entitlement carried by the modeling crowd is sometimes just crazy.

It's not entitlement..

I paid the money for these ships, I do with them as I please and in my group no one cares if they are painted differently.. typically it's my gear we use in our games.

I find your comment very insulting, as I, for one, am not above the rules set out. Broad all encompassing comments like this are uncalled for.

If and when I do attend a tourney, I hope the TO is open minded enough to look at what I have and decide if he will allow them. Should he make a blanket statement about the game pieces having to be original models, I would follow his instruction without complain t.

Several people here seem to think they should be above the rules as set out. Or at the very least, will simply choose not to play, rather than adhere to them. And if your response to FFG's rules is to label people as "vocal minorities who must win at all costs" and "least common denominators" then I'm just as happy to see you turn around and walk out the door, because you're going to do nothing but make the day miserable for everyone.

Thankfully, you don't seem to be one of those people, although you're going rather far out of your way to take offense at something that obviously wasn't directed at you.

Do I think TO's should be flexible with it? I do - my own B-wings are turned, with mod'ed cockpits, and I've run any number of events where I allowed mods so long as they were still easy to distinguish. But that's at the discretion of the TO, and insulting anyone who acknowledges that as either stupid or a hypercompetitive jerk is exactly the sort of massive entitlement I was referring to - a sense that because you put paint on a model, or cut some plastic, you're above the rules and nobody can say anything about that. Sorry, but no.

Well, it's been a rough day on here... and I think I have been a little sensitive to some comments. I guess I feel similarly in that if someone is going to be disruptive, I too would prefer they leave and save the hard feelings.

Heck I have B wings converted as well and a bunch of repaints.. from my school bus lambda to the A wings for green squad, as well as many of my TIE ships. This weekend I started moding a YT into the Solar Flare, it still has that YT look and feel, but it will be my go to ORS in the future, and my repainted YT as well.

To one and all...

My apologies if I came off as insulting to anyone, that was not my intent. The point I was trying to make (however poorly) is that most of us play this GAME to have FUN. For some, that FUN comes from the models which they have either repainted, remodeled or from completely new designs. For others, their enjoyment might be derived from the "story" aspect of the game, from the chance to play out their fantasies and/or indulge their imaginations in the universe of Star Wars. For others, it is the thrill and challenge of competition. And for some, it is the interaction with other gamers. That is one of the great things about this game that FFG created, it allows all these types to gather together and enjoy the same game.

Yes, I do applaud anyone who displays their talent and imagination by painting, modeling, designing or otherwise adding to this hobby by indulging in some for of creation. Yes, I do hold a negative opinion of anyone who is so wrapped up in winning, that they forget that the game is not solely about their enjoyment, but is a shared event. I would feel the same about "art Nazis" who would exclude someone who's repaints are not up to their standard.

I understand, though I do not necessarily agree with all of, the official rules for tournaments as published by FFG. If you wish to play in an "official", FFG sponsored/recognized event, then you have to abide by their rules. That's it. That is the standard that is to be upheld. But, I am free to disagree with that standard and even ridicule it if I so wish. Likewise, if I am NOT playing in an "officially sanctioned event", then... since I paid my money and purchased their product, FFG cannot tell me how to enjoy such product. If I want to use repaints, mods or even new designs in MY games, then that is my choice. If anyone wants to join me and share in the fun, then the more the merrier. If someone chooses not to, then that is their choice. There are MANY ways to enjoy this game that there is NO ONE WAY to do it ... unless it is an official event and then it will be played by the official rules.

Thus endeth the sermon, now go have FUN.

Chris

Chris, appreciated, but nothing you did.. at least to me personally.. lol.. we're good. I was in a couple conversations and well, now I'm moving on.. lol.. alls good

Right now the ships are very distinct, but that may not be true forever. The middle cockpit YT-1300 mods look a lot like the YT-2000. If they ever come out with a YT-2000, it could be quite confusing. I think it's better to have physically modded models be considered tournament illegal, and let a TO decide otherwise. Repaints are legal, and that's a good thing.

Yes, I do hold a negative opinion of anyone who is so wrapped up in winning, that they forget that the game is not solely about their enjoyment, but is a shared event.

And who exactly has said, not just here but ever, that your repaints are going to get in the way of their precious victory and they have to go away? Honestly, it seems to be you who's forgetting that it's a shared event.

The rules exist as they are to show courtesy to your opponent - to make the game state clear to everyone, not because it helps any given person win but because it creates the best foundation for a stable experience. It also avoids dispute over just how modified something can be. Take Hexis' example of the YT-2000. Is a center-cockpit YT-1300 fine today? Is it still fine once they release a YT-2000? Would it be fine if I converted my YT-1300 to look like a -2000?

FFG's official rules provide a consistent rule that keeps them from being inundated with "Is this OK?" questions or forcing TO's into arguments over what will undoubtedly be incredibly subjective standard. That's good for everyone, and if some creative types have the potential to have to leave their work on display off to the side, rather than on the table, so be it.

You can't seem to wrap your brain around that level of respect - anyone who respects the rules must just be out to win, and doesn't want to risk that 0.0001% chance that they'll confuse a model and cost them the game. You've created a straw man of epic proportions.

Yes, I do hold a negative opinion of anyone who is so wrapped up in winning, that they forget that the game is not solely about their enjoyment, but is a shared event.

And who exactly has said, not just here but ever, that your repaints are going to get in the way of their precious victory and they have to go away? Honestly, it seems to be you who's forgetting that it's a shared event.

The rules exist as they are to show courtesy to your opponent - to make the game state clear to everyone, not because it helps any given person win but because it creates the best foundation for a stable experience. It also avoids dispute over just how modified something can be. Take Hexis' example of the YT-2000. Is a center-cockpit YT-1300 fine today? Is it still fine once they release a YT-2000? Would it be fine if I converted my YT-1300 to look like a -2000?

FFG's official rules provide a consistent rule that keeps them from being inundated with "Is this OK?" questions or forcing TO's into arguments over what will undoubtedly be incredibly subjective standard. That's good for everyone, and if some creative types have the potential to have to leave their work on display off to the side, rather than on the table, so be it.

You can't seem to wrap your brain around that level of respect - anyone who respects the rules must just be out to win, and doesn't want to risk that 0.0001% chance that they'll confuse a model and cost them the game. You've created a straw man of epic proportions.

Bruhallin,

buddy... stand down. Either I am totally incapable of getting my intent across or I have hit a sore spot. I was not dissing the competitive nature of the game (hell, I've been known to be a bit competitive at times). Nor did I mean to come down on those for whom their primary enjoyment of the game is derived from tournament-style play (I have had a great time at tourneys). Likewise, I did not intend my missive to be a total criticism of FFG, their game or their policies (actually, I thought I said that I understand-if not totally agree- with their rule as applied to "official" events). My criticism was really directed at those few (and I have actually yet to meet any of them at any X-wing events, "official" or otherwise and I have never faced criticism from fellow gamers or TO about my repaints- in fact, quite the oposite) who are so wrapped up in whatever it is that gets them off about the hobby that they care not for their fellow gamers and their mutual enjoyment of said game. As I said, "it is a shared event" and everyone who participates should walk away as friends who have shared a mutually enjoyable time together. That is all.

If you are NOT one of these few, then I am not talking about you. Continue to go out and be a good ambassador of this game we all seem to enjoy!

Hope to actually meet you some day at an event. I'll show off my "shiny toys" and you can show me how to roll up the kills! Perhaps we can show each other and demonstrate to those around us, how to have fun and enjoy the game in new ways.

Happy hunting and Fly Casual (or at least as casual as you are comfortable with),

Chris

In the "comparison" department I was also thinking about the YT-1300 with the cockpit moved to the center being a LOT like what a YT-2000 would look like. I'm also thinking, what if you closed the S-foils on your X-Wing because then it would look a lot like the Z-95 that is coming out. It may not happen but what if FFG releases an alternative version of a current ship where you'd tell the difference because of something different on the model.