Account Siphon didn't seem a problem until they came out with Same Old Thing. I think that's the culprit, not Account Siphon. Same Old Thing being a neutral card requiring no influence, it really helps criminal a lot. If Same Old Thing was a two influence card, I doubt it would be that much used.

SOT basically forces the runner to float tags. So as long as the corp has some tag punishment SOT into AS is not that big a deal.

So how do you guys handle tags if using account syphon so much? I was feeling quite pleased with myself after my account syphon - account syphon - SOT - account syphon, untill my opponent just clicked for 1 credit and closed accounts before I could clear the tags.

If I have to wait until I have lawyer up before I can play it then he has time to protect HQ properly, and that can't help with the same old thing runs...

So how do you guys handle tags if using account syphon so much? I was feeling quite pleased with myself after my account syphon - account syphon - SOT - account syphon, untill my opponent just clicked for 1 credit and closed accounts before I could clear the tags.

If I have to wait until I have lawyer up before I can play it then he has time to protect HQ properly, and that can't help with the same old thing runs...

Well, in the example you gave, the corp went from 11-15 credits to 0 credits and basically gave himself a turn where he had one click to actually advance his own win condition. Now he's probably got no money to rez ice, so you can go buck wild on your turn.

Criminal can bounce back really fast with Easy Mark, or you could play Armitage Codebusting and immediately drain six credits off of it, and give the corp a tempo hit where they have to click, click, trash to keep you off of an additional $6.

Also, a lot of the tag-me styles use Datasuckers, Mimic, Yog, and sometimes even Morningstar so that they don't have to waste money boosting the strength of their breakers. This allows them to get into servers with the money they found in the couch cushions. Desperado is also key card for Tag-me, as it pays you for doing what you'd do anyway.

Going back to what Zorajit was saying, the amount of deckbuilding constraints it imposes on you to run heavy Account Siphon is fairly substantial, so that's its own balancing factor.

I'm legitimately curious how you don't see an issue with a first-order optimal strategy of repeating the same action as many times as possible to not be a design flaw.

It's not a flaw, it's just a pathway the designers want their game to flow thru. They want hackers to be able to drain the accounts of corps. To them they see this as an option that must be taken. In addition they wanted this to be a primary item for Criminals.

Back in the MTG days they would have decks with Land Destruction. First turn was destroy land, repeat, repeat, repeat, and then the game would proceed with just a different pace, with a struggle. Eventually they stopped making as many land destruction cards, and then land fixing. In addition they made different formats for the game that didn't allow some of the older LD cards. This basically justifies what you are saying.

The only thing about this game, that honestly, I don't quite understand as the real hard thing to do is: Make a choice install the 1 piece of ice in your opening 6 cards, on R&D or HQ, and it better be cheap enough for you to rez.

When I first started playing I got hit by siphon quite a bit, until I realized all I had to do was put an effective cheap piece of ice on HQ, when playing against criminal. Then only every once in a while, did I really get hurt by siphon. Now don't get me wrong, if you get hit with 3 siphon in a row pow wow, YES YOU ARE PROBABLY GOING TO LOSE.

But putting a piece of ICE out in front of HQ and rezzing to defend, then having him Special Order, then play his ICE breaker, taking turns, then SoT getting hit by siphon, making me then put up another piece of ICE, in the next turn, and rezzing, is not some crazy order of things, it's just "PLAYING" the game.

Now yes if you get those runners who manage to combine this with indexing or Maker's Eye, that can lose you the game! But that's the game dawg!

But here is a further study. If you have to protect R&D and HQ and feel like you never get to just slap down a remote server and put 1 piece of ICE out in front of that remote and play your agenda and advance on turn 2 or 3. The game just doesn't always play that way necessarily. Sometimes you have to protect the HOUSE, and wait for that sweet remote setup, and this hurts you in your gut because you want to win, so do I, I have been there.

And then you go back to saying, "should I put more ICE in the deck or not" And this just all sums up playing and deck constructing and tweaking the numbers going back and forth and the need for play testing more and more.

I don't know it feels like some people just want this game mastered in two weeks and then when they are done mastering it they will put it on the shelf and go play some other CCG, TCG, LCG... These games don't work that way. They are not video games that you play all week long and say I am finished and then go to the next game.

You have to feel frustration and then overcompensation by overly protecting HQ (and maybe R&D) and then the Metagame rears it's ugly head, where people complete lay off siphons as their main strategy, but you are all in full force protecting HQ and then lose again.

It's just playing this game...

But I can understand one point tho, BORDEM:

If you have played this game for over a year and have many games logged and feel like all that comes up over and over is account siphon, it's all the "monkeys" play, I can get that point

The only thing I can say to that is hopefully in the next year or so their will be more and more exciting ways to play criminal and other's will figure out ways to not use 8 or 12 of their INF for Siphons.

I myself don't always play siphon (especially if I run Anarch or Shaper), but when I do I have 3 SoT!! haha

in the end of the day there are 3 things that matters.

first: is your deck rdy to withstand against any runner aproaching your servers?

second: can you handle your deck and play the best out of it considering the current meta?

third: are u lucky today ?(in terms of card draw and oponent playstyle ? )

first: is your deck rdy to withstand against any runner aproaching your servers?

In my experience it is highly improbable that you will be able to have a deck that can fully withstand a runner's attention. The question really becomes: what are you going to do about it?

They will get in, touch all your stuff and steal your agendas (especially early). Those actions have to carry consequences.

The more options you give yourself as a Corp (and runner) the more points 2 and 3 come into play.