Ok 2 weeks ago order was easily seen as top tier. What do you guys think now? There are definately lots of answers to d.loops, commital, and other order control tricks, but how much of a beating do you think it took?

Order now "2nd tier" (fighting game 2nd tier, as in not "2nd place" but simply the tier under top)? I don't think it fell any lower than mid tier, but idk.

discuss

Its still one of the top 4 resources it just wont have as much of a power creep as it did earlier this season.

Its still good but I believe a fire (or other fast agro) deck can just kill it before it can setup. Fire can just spam out foundations like nobody business. In the fire deck im planning a large percentage are just there for a) the 6 check and B) to help me pass checks so commit away and lose resources to help block with:) A mess of 1/5 2/5 and x/6 foundation vs. a pile of 3 difficulty foundations,

since fire (and generally aggro) is gaining some tempo, do you think a higher vitality 6 hander will maybe do better with order now than the standard 7/20?

Smazzurco said:

Well you can be alex and be a 10/28 lol but honestly I like the 7/20 for aggro personally.

i meant for order characters

Smazzurco said:

Oh lol well I think sophita is really good she is a high vit and she draws up like athena . Also rock howard is 25 vit and his draw ability cant be stopped by tag along .

Scubadude said:

But can be stopped cold by Tough Outer Shell!

This Set is a classic example of everything happening around something else. Order didn't move anywhere. Every other symbol just skyrocketed up. What does it mean for Order? Simply enough, players of the symbol need to prepare properly for the surge of new decks and resurgence of Aggro. Both of those scenarios (particularly the second) are things that Order didn't have to worry about between August of last year and March of this year

BlindProphet said:

Sure can although I haven't seen that card since june of last year in any decks .

Though card draw has been reinforced, two of the three symbols that got the support (All and Void) are on TOS. You won't see all and Void decks countering card draw like that if they need to do it as well. Life decks, on the other hand, may start using it more.

i think order is still tops. i just think now fire and air are almost as good as it. (fire may be beter). I think chaos and water both took a beating thanks to the new set. control as a whole will have trouble being competitive outside of order.

Scubadude said:

With Astrid and Ivy running about I am sure you will see it played more. Control Order decks will start using it to slow down faster paced Aggro decks. It's an optional effect so you use it up until your own kill turn, and it pretty much shuts down any Attack strings in 6HS Characters because even with 20 Attacks in the deck they're only going to draw 2 Attacks per turn on Average. By the time they have enough in hand to spam, Order should be able to defend or lock down the opponent.

Wait wait wait, I thought static abilities couldn't be stopped? TOS ability looks like a Form becoming a floating ability, so doesn't become a static itself.

P.S. Sorry for the thread jack, I haven't seen the new sets yet!!

Order sits in a chair across from the Earth, Life, or Good deck that's kicking it around.

Tagrineth said:

Can't forget Fire and Air, although I think good and order are about equal now, simply because Good doesn't have the speed that Earth/Fire/Life can put up. Evil and Death can be put into pretty much the same spot as Earth and Order, but they're more hybridy. Chaos is just... brutal now. That about sums it up.

I think Void actually got the worst end of it. I thought with an answer to Olcadan's it would be **** tier, but just because of the sheer aggro power that was brought by this set and all the great attacks that scratched by it, I think it stayed down in the low tier. Ivy, Algol, and Rashotep are all great characters, but many of them would run off of better symbols...

All keeps it's spot in the bottom area of top tier. Ivy and Algol can now add to the list of great competitive all characters in block 3 like Sakura and Alex (though not quite on their level, Ivy has the ability to just dominate games through aggro, and Algol picks through his deck.)

If we go by fighting tier ranks, I think this set booted Order out of the S tier and into A tier. It's still the best control symbol around, and Spiral Arrow/I-Spin locks are no joke, but I think the death of the defender loop hurts it's defense. However, Hilde and Astrid both bring some serious aggro back to Order/Fire. Kuzuyu Reppa into Lightning Horn is just too brutal...

Fiddlestix said:

Tough Outer Shell's first form says you can't draw cards durring the combat phase. So while Rock's ability may trigger durring the combat phase, he would be unable to draw the card. Can't beats Can.

Static abilities cannot be negated, but they can be prevented.

It's just a matter of using the right words when you describe what happens. In this case, Rock's effect would activate. TOS then kicks in and would cause the player to be unable to draw the cards off of his effect. As Shane said, the situation would be described as: "Tough Outer Shell has prevented the player from drawing cards off of Rock's effect, but has not negated Rock's effect"