It has been a while sense I was on here, Has there been any word on if Disney/Marvel having a problem with Fantasy Flight games in regard to the Star Wars brand? I know the comics have moved from Dark Horse to Marvel, but I was wondering about games...?

Shouldn't be any issues. The comics moved from dark horse to marvel because Disney owns marvel, so letting a competing comic publisher profit from star wars was silly when marvel can publish them and take 100% of the profits.

FFG is gonna be just fine until Disney buys an RPG publisher.

Um, bad thing is Disney has a major licensing agreement with Hasbro, Hasbro owns WotC...

I hope that FFG can keep paying up the licensing fee for the RPG. Saga edition just didn't make enough of a profit for WotC to keep up with that fee. Back in the mid 90's the only real money maker for WEG was the Star Wars RPG, but the company fell into other troubles and couldn't pay up that high fee hat LFL wanted. I have no idea how much FFG has to pay to keep the brand, but to everyone one out there, please don't pirate the game (yes, I know every one loves their PDF) but for every book that doesn't sell in favor of the illegal PDF, that just means that this game will be taken from FFG that much sooner. So please, support the game the right way, and if possible support your LFGS!

So to everyone at FFG, thanks for the great game and all the work you put into it, and to everyone else, please show your support by buying the physical copies of the material.

Ok, I'm getting off of my high Bantha now.

Frankly, there's nothing any of us can do if Disney wants WotC to get the franchise back. WotC let it go when they felt the cost/benefit ratio was no longer in their favor and I don't fault them for that. Now that Disney owns SW I see it going back to WotC as soon as legally possible.

They made an entertaining system and I enjoyed playing it but FFGs new version just destroys saga for me. I'm glad I sold my complete saga collection because I'm never going back. this may be the perfect system for star wars and I hope FFg has a contract letting them get Force and Destiny out as well as the career books (like enter the unknown and dangerous covenants) for most (hopefully all) of the careers. I don't need the adventure books, but I like the design of putting extra rules in adventure books (jewel of Yavins chase rules are going right into the second arc of my current campaign.) since I collect the entire line compulsively. lol

We've got time but there's nothing stopping Disney from upping the royalty cost or outright taking the license back when they can do so under the current licensing contract with FFG. With any luck FFg got a long term contract that secures their hold on the rights for another couple of years minimum.

I am betting they have the contract for 10 years. So that will give until August of 2021.

Wow, you sold all your Saga books. I hope you got some good cash for them, I know a lot of them are going for over $100!!!! I kept all mine, but I'm a packrat like that. I still have all my old WEG, WotC CR, RCR, and Saga books.

I am betting they have the contract for 10 years. So that will give until August of 2021.

No one outside of StarWars/Disney and FFG knows the license duration, but RPG game licenses tend to MUCH less than 10 years. Especially one as expensive and tightly controlled as the Star Wars IP.

I have confidence we will see all 3 core lines established, but I wouldn't be surprised if things needed to be renewed shortly after F&D is released.

I am betting they have the contract for 10 years. So that will give until August of 2021.

No one outside of StarWars/Disney and FFG knows the license duration, but RPG game licenses tend to MUCH less than 10 years. Especially one as expensive and tightly controlled as the Star Wars IP.

I have confidence we will see all 3 core lines established, but I wouldn't be surprised if things needed to be renewed shortly after F&D is released.

Hopefully Force and Destiny won't have the same launch as Dark Heresy did under Black Library. That was special.

Well... if Disney bought FFG things would be swell!

Um, bad thing is Disney has a major licensing agreement with Hasbro, Hasbro owns WotC...

Its a licensing deal for toys, not non-board tabletop games. License deals are for specific product lines and slices of related merch. RPGs and action figures aren't related. So each is a separate deal, and separate fees and a separate cutnof the action.

This is also why WotC prolly isn't going to pay to get the license back. Part of the reason for them dropping it was the cost of the license. The money guys decided it wasn't profitable enough to pay for permission for Star Wars when they already owned D&D lock stock and +20 vorpal barrel.

Star Wars is also expensive to produce. D&D, they could pump out what every they wanted and had not shortage of material. Star Wars has to be approved by lucasfilm, and if you don't spead out the content you end up running out.

Now... FFG is a smaller operation then WotC, it doesn't have a world crushing internally owned property like D&D, and they've clearly planned to spread content out. For FFG the expense and trouble of the license is probably worth it, so we can expect to see content from them for a while.

Which is really nice since they seem to be doing a god job (though I would like to loan them my editor, she catches typos better then anyone).

The argument for the license reverting back to WotC is that Disney can forgo most/all of the licensing fees for "in house" developers. This would return the viabilty of Star Wars as a profitable line of products for WotC. I'm not in the industry of course but I won't be one bit surprised to see the license return to WotC. See also Dark Horse comics loses license to Marvel.

With the new movies and tv series there will not be a shortage of new material to produce as well as a growing fanbase. In the next few years the new material will be sufficient for WotC to make another system (I would bet money they're currently working on the star wars system in anticipation of regaining the license) and capatilize on the new fans.

We also don't know if thelicense as it currently stands even includes the new material (ep 7-9, solo {no pun intended} movies, Rebels) as an option for FFG to use.

In short...we don't know jack and all we can do is wait and see.

May the Force be with us all.

Hasbro is not "in house" as Marvel is. The only reason I could see the license returning to WotC is that it expires and Disney sells it to the highest bidder. Hasbro/WotC has much more influence and money in a bidding war. My concern is that the license lapses and Hasbro/WotC sees the RPG as a viable resource what with the renewed interest due to the new movies and series and it is scooped up by them again. While I can appreciate the work that WotC put into their game (I have all the Saga books and some RCR), I much prefer FFG's take.

Just a minor correction:

Marvel does not have the Star Wars comic license until 2015. In the meantime, Dark Horse has produced (and will continue to produce) Star Wars comics, trade paperbacks, and the like. Their current Star Wars ongoing comic has actually been quite good.

When the license agreement with Fantasy Flight expires (and I'm willing to bet that's a five-year deal, not a ten-year deal), the license will once again be in play. At that point, anyone will be free to make an offer for it. Hasbro could certainly outbid FFG if it wanted to, but does it want to?

It's a good question. Star Wars was at WotC previously and they chose to let it go. The sense I get is that Hasbro views the rpg hobby as a tiny, insignificant part of its business that is likely either marginally profitable, or not profitable at all. WotC is the house that Magic built, and it always will be. Consider the resources - or lack thereof - that WotC is putting toward D&D next. That design team is what, five guys? Six? It's incredibly lean.

The only scenario in which I could see Hasbro making a play for Star Wars RPGs is if D&D Next takes off in a big way and makes them think the RPG space is worth that kind of investment.

The more interesting question is, who will bid against FFG for the miniatures license? X-Wing has been a big hit for FFG, and I'm sure WizKids would love to ****** that away if they had the chance. Hasbro might make a play for it, given the success of the product line at FFG, but I doubt it.

I will say this... if FFG is able to renew and amend the license, I really hope they can nix the stupid contract language that prevents them from creating PDFs. That was a LFL policy, I hope Disney is smarter about distinguishing between video games and digital media.

Just a minor correction:

Marvel does not have the Star Wars comic license until 2015. In the meantime, Dark Horse has produced (and will continue to produce) Star Wars comics, trade paperbacks, and the like. Their current Star Wars ongoing comic has actually been quite good.

Seconded on the Star Wars coming being good.

Back in the mid 90's the only real money maker for WEG was the Star Wars RPG, but the company fell into other troubles and couldn't pay up that high fee hat LFL wanted.

Naw, it wasnt the high fee that Lucasfilm wanted, it was that **** shoe company and it's mismanagement that killed WEG. WEG was doing just fine, living well from it's steady Star Wars sales. It was just the millstone around it's neck that killed it.

The argument for the license reverting back to WotC is that Disney can forgo most/all of the licensing fees for "in house" developers. This would return the viabilty of Star Wars as a profitable line of products for WotC. I'm not in the industry of course but I won't be one bit surprised to see the license return to WotC. See also Dark Horse comics loses license to Marvel.

With the new movies and tv series there will not be a shortage of new material to produce as well as a growing fanbase. In the next few years the new material will be sufficient for WotC to make another system (I would bet money they're currently working on the star wars system in anticipation of regaining the license) and capatilize on the new fans.

We also don't know if thelicense as it currently stands even includes the new material (ep 7-9, solo {no pun intended} movies, Rebels) as an option for FFG to use.

In short...we don't know jack and all we can do is wait and see.

May the Force be with us all.

OK:

It's a license deal for action figures and similar toys with Hasbro, Disney does NOT own Hasbro. Hasbro is an independent toy company (look it up, I own stock in Hasbro, and turned a tidy profit at that). So moving it to them wouldn't make it "in-house" and WotC would have the exact same issues it had before.

The reason why Disney cancelled Clone Wars on cartoon network (a Turner company) and is moving the comics to Marvel is because Disney DOES own it's own TV network, and it owns Marvel Comics purple hulk-pants and all. So moving those properties over is moving them "in house."

The new movies are a ways out, and the new cartoon doesn't start until fall. Until then FFG has only limited access to the materials presenting in them. While there will in all likelihood be a Rebels sourcebook (LFL LOVES cross marketing, and for Star Wars it does seem to work fairly well), the cartoon probably only has about 2 sourcebooks worth of material in it over the course of 100 or so episodes (seriously, watch CW, they don't show off much new material that actually deserves a full write up). The new movies, say a sourcebook each? That's not a whole lot of content when you're trying to make money...

So Hasbro looks at the Star Wars RPG and sees a niche product with significant overhead and little control (everything has to be approved by lucasfilm, and corrected and sent back, and also there's the perils of multimedia events like Force Unleashed where LFL says you have to warehouse piles of product for 3 months because the computer guys are having trouble adapting the video game to the PS3). Why bother when Hasbro already has D&D (which itself isn't doing so well) and as others pointed out, Magic.

Also... "Making a new game system in anticipation on X license" yeaaaaah no. That's just bad business. You don't devote resources (money) to a product line that you "anticipate" getting, you devote resources to a line you HAVE. The closest WotC is getting to making a new system is D&D Next. If they get the license back we're going to see another D20 variant Star Wars, that's just how the business world works.

On the other end you've got FFG. They are smaller, leaner, more flexible on the amount of profits they turn from quarter to quarter, and have a lot of experience working with licensed product lines. For them Star Wars is a much sweeter deal, they can devote more resources to it, not have corporate breathing down their necks about every penny, and generally devote more time and talent to the product line.

While it's certainly possible that WotC might make another bid if the license comes back on the market, it's far more likely that another smaller house will be the one to put up the most fight to get it. In the gaming business of 2014 it's the small flexible companies that do well, and the big public companies that take one to the dangly bits unless expertly managed by someone that really gets both the business and the product. Just ask Games Workshop...

OK:

It's a license deal for action figures and similar toys with Hasbro, Disney does NOT own Hasbro. Hasbro is an independent toy company (look it up, I own stock in Hasbro, and turned a tidy profit at that). So moving it to them wouldn't make it "in-house" and WotC would have the exact same issues it had before.

The reason why Disney cancelled Clone Wars on cartoon network (a Turner company) and is moving the comics to Marvel is because Disney DOES own it's own TV network, and it owns Marvel Comics purple hulk-pants and all. So moving those properties over is moving them "in house."

Yes, with you so far.

The new movies are a ways out, and the new cartoon doesn't start until fall. Until then FFG has only limited access to the materials presenting in them. While there will in all likelihood be a Rebels sourcebook (LFL LOVES cross marketing, and for Star Wars it does seem to work fairly well), the cartoon probably only has about 2 sourcebooks worth of material in it over the course of 100 or so episodes (seriously, watch CW, they don't show off much new material that actually deserves a full write up). The new movies, say a sourcebook each? That's not a whole lot of content when you're trying to make money...

I doubt that Disney/Lucas will call for a Rebels (cartoon) sourcebook, or even the new movies. A Rebellion sourcebook I can see, though. And it may incorporate aspects from the series. I doubt we will see movie specific sourcebooks either.

So Hasbro looks at the Star Wars RPG and sees a niche product with significant overhead and little control (everything has to be approved by lucasfilm, and corrected and sent back, and also there's the perils of multimedia events like Force Unleashed where LFL says you have to warehouse piles of product for 3 months because the computer guys are having trouble adapting the video game to the PS3). Why bother when Hasbro already has D&D (which itself isn't doing so well) and as others pointed out, Magic.

Also... "Making a new game system in anticipation on X license" yeaaaaah no. That's just bad business. You don't devote resources (money) to a product line that you "anticipate" getting, you devote resources to a line you HAVE. The closest WotC is getting to making a new system is D&D Next. If they get the license back we're going to see another D20 variant Star Wars, that's just how the business world works.

WotC had issues dealing with LucasArts. It is a different beast now and no one to say it will be the same. And I doubt WotC would make a game "in anticipation" or otherwise. Of course they would use their system or adapt the current model. That doesn't mean they wouldn't do it.

On the other end you've got FFG. They are smaller, leaner, more flexible on the amount of profits they turn from quarter to quarter, and have a lot of experience working with licensed product lines. For them Star Wars is a much sweeter deal, they can devote more resources to it, not have corporate breathing down their necks about every penny, and generally devote more time and talent to the product line.

Disney/Lucas makes money no matter who buys the license, big or small. And I would daresay Hasbro has a hell of a lot more experience working with licensed properties, both their own and others. I fail to see how being a small company gives them an advantage.

While it's certainly possible that WotC might make another bid if the license comes back on the market, it's far more likely that another smaller house will be the one to put up the most fight to get it. In the gaming business of 2014 it's the small flexible companies that do well, and the big public companies that take one to the dangly bits unless expertly managed by someone that really gets both the business and the product. Just ask Games Workshop...

It comes down to money. If Hasbro/WotC wants it, they could buy it over FFG. Now this doesn't take into account other things, like Disney/Lucas being more comfortable with a company because they will be truer to the brand or other such considerations. If it is just about money, then the biggest dog has the advantage.

comes down to money. If Hasbro/WotC wants it, they could buy it over FFG. Now this doesn't take into account other things, like Disney/Lucas being more comfortable with a company because they will be truer to the brand or other such considerations. If it is just about money, then the biggest dog has the advantage.

Well, at the very least, I doubt that FFG would take the time and energy to write Force and Destiny without a contract covering them until it's release - so they (most likely) will have the product range through 2016. So even if WotC has predatory license snapping-up ambitions, we'll still see loads and loads of product.

Mind you, if WotC/Hasbro kills this line, I will not touch theirs. I'll stay here or go back to WEG instead of playing under that ill-suited D20 engine.

Mind you, if WotC/Hasbro kills this line, I will not touch theirs. I'll stay here or go back to WEG instead of playing under that ill-suited D20 engine.

Ditto. EotE changed how I view RPGs in general, and I ain't never going back, regardless of genre. D20 is black and white; nWoD added tints and a bit of colour; EotE is colour and 3D on a 4K display.

Yes, very true. FFG does have the license for as long as they do. And I hope they get to keep it, too. I think their work is awesome.

The new movies are a ways out, and the new cartoon doesn't start until fall. Until then FFG has only limited access to the materials presenting in them. While there will in all likelihood be a Rebels sourcebook (LFL LOVES cross marketing, and for Star Wars it does seem to work fairly well), the cartoon probably only has about 2 sourcebooks worth of material in it over the course of 100 or so episodes (seriously, watch CW, they don't show off much new material that actually deserves a full write up). The new movies, say a sourcebook each? That's not a whole lot of content when you're trying to make money...

I doubt that Disney/Lucas will call for a Rebels (cartoon) sourcebook, or even the new movies. A Rebellion sourcebook I can see, though. And it may incorporate aspects from the series. I doubt we will see movie specific sourcebooks either.

I was more making the point that there isn't much content there. I don't disagree with you completely, I'm not expecting a "Rebels: Sourcebook" or "EP7: Attack of the Lens Flares Campaign Guide" But I do think we'll see a Dark Times related book that will leverage Rebels (as well as TFU and such, because rebels just won't have enough content for it's own book) and the same goes for the new films. It's just silly not to.

On the other end you've got FFG. They are smaller, leaner, more flexible on the amount of profits they turn from quarter to quarter, and have a lot of experience working with licensed product lines. For them Star Wars is a much sweeter deal, they can devote more resources to it, not have corporate breathing down their necks about every penny, and generally devote more time and talent to the product line.

Disney/Lucas makes money no matter who buys the license, big or small. And I would daresay Hasbro has a hell of a lot more experience working with licensed properties, both their own and others. I fail to see how being a small company gives them an advantage.

It has to do with being publicly traded vs. private. Hasbro is publicly traded, and as such need to post profits to keep stock holders happy. Any product that isn't selling well is hurting that overall bottom line and could mean the difference between posting a $4 Million and a $5 Million profit. The mouse doesn't care, but Hasbro does.

FFG is private (at least as far as I can tell), so as long as the bills are getting paid FFG is in good shape. As a matter of fact FFG probably goes to great length to officially post no profits for tax reasons. So, on the one hand a lower profit margin isn't as big a deal, on the other, a sudden increase in profits can be better overall. WotC turns a big profit, a fair chunk of that money just disappears into the corporate machine. FFG gets a sack o cash, they immediately reinvest it (yay new computers for everyone!) to turn that profit into a break-even for the tax man.

While it's certainly possible that WotC might make another bid if the license comes back on the market, it's far more likely that another smaller house will be the one to put up the most fight to get it. In the gaming business of 2014 it's the small flexible companies that do well, and the big public companies that take one to the dangly bits unless expertly managed by someone that really gets both the business and the product. Just ask Games Workshop...

It comes down to money. If Hasbro/WotC wants it, they could buy it over FFG. Now this doesn't take into account other things, like Disney/Lucas being more comfortable with a company because they will be truer to the brand or other such considerations. If it is just about money, then the biggest dog has the advantage.

True, but that's not what I was saying, what I'm saying is the question is: Does Hasbro want the RPG license at all? And in the current market, I don't think they do. It's too much expense and risk for not enough return. It's possible that will change when the license goes back up for bid, but I'm skeptical.

Mind you, if WotC/Hasbro kills this line, I will not touch theirs. I'll stay here or go back to WEG instead of playing under that ill-suited D20 engine.

Ditto. EotE changed how I view RPGs in general, and I ain't never going back, regardless of genre. D20 is black and white; nWoD added tints and a bit of colour; EotE is colour and 3D on a 4K display.

Agreed, D20 is a good very system for some settings and concepts, but I never felt Star Wars was one of them.