Everybody is talking about it, but has anybody made some definate stats for the buggers, wel here is my go at it.

Stormbolter
Type: Basic Bolt
Range: 90
RoF: -/2/4
Damage: 1d10+6X
Pen: 4
Clip: 36
Rld: 2 Full
Special: Tearing
Wt.: 9kg
Cost: 1250

I based the stats of this weapon on the Twin-Linked Autogun in the eratta, but increased the Clip because these things are drum-fed.

Any ideas?

i was thinking that since a storm bolter is just two bolters i was going to simply double the damage and clip size. so it would have the same stats as a bolter but the damage would be 2d10 + 10 X with a 48 round clip. then again the availability would become so rare my players would never see either end of one.

unless i felt really mean

If I had to make up stats for Stormbolters on the spot, I think I'd just give it standard bolter stats and give it two damage rolls for every hit scored. Voila, quick and dirty. It would also use extra ammo that way, so I'd t least double the ammo capacity.

Of course, that'd be pretty nasty... especially if one used the 2d10X damage example from Purge the Unclean. A lot of potential for Righteous Fury. But hey, it's a friggin' Stormbolter.

Sirikhai said:

Sirikhai said:

Why more damage? The storm bolter isnt known for more damage, but more ammo and rate of fire. Id just take a bolter, increase its rate of fire by 1 or 2 in each category available (if not outright increase by 150%), double the weight (or by 180%), increase its availability difficulty by 1 stages, double the cost, double the ammo. If you feel it needs more damage add 1 to PEN and 1 to Damage to simulate the mass number of exploding rounds in the area, but only if fired on semi or full.

Technically it is a twin linked bolter.

* thus, only semi/full auto fire
* Slightly increase damage and weight

Santiago said:

Why slightly increase damage? It's firing more shells, not more powerful ones.

I put together some basic twin-linking rules as a part of my combi-weapon rules (for a combi-weapon made of two of the same gun), which are copied below:

Combination Weaponry

Rare and exotic in the extreme, combination weaponry allows a warrior to increase his firepower and versatility in battle by combining two weapons – sometimes the same, sometimes different ones – into a single man-portable package. Bolters are the most common base for combination weaponry, more commonly known as combi-weapons, but the principal remains the same for any combination of weaponry.

A Combi-weapon can be made from any two basic weapons. Nominate one or other of the weapons to be the base. This weapon functions normally at all times and for all intents and purposes. If the second weapon is different (say, a plasma gun, where the base is a bolter), then apply the Compact modifier to it (DARK HERESY rulebook, page 141). The different parts of the weapon may be switched between as a free action once per turn.

If the second weapon is the same, then it supplements the firepower of the base weapon – double the semi-auto and full-auto rates of the base weapon, as well as the Clip and Reload values. Semi-auto values cannot go above three, but see below. Further, any shot fired by a combi-weapon where both weapons are the same count all semi-auto and full-auto attacks as being assisted (making the shot one-step easier, and granting an additional degree of success).

If a weapon with no full-auto value, but a semi-auto value, is used as a combi-weapon of the latter kind (that is, any weapon where the semi-auto value after doubling would be above 3), then the weapon instead gains a semi-auto value of 3 and a full-auto value equal to double the original semi-auto value or 5, whichever is higher (so a weapon with an RoF of S/2/- doubled up into a combi-weapon would result in an RoF of S/3/5). A weapon with only a Single-shot value gains a semi-auto value of 2.

The total weight of the combi-weapon is equal to the weight of the base weapon, plus half the weight of the second weapon. The cost is equal to the costs of both weapons purchased normally, plus 50 thrones. The rarity is equal to that of the rarest of the two component weapons, and then worsened by one step. If this would push it beyond Very Rare, then the combi-weapon cannot be searched for normally, and can only be found at GM’s discretion.

Thus, a Combi-Bolter using these rules would have the following stats (starting with a human-scaled bolter, to create a weapon similar to that occasionally used by characters like Commissar Yarrick): Range 90m; S/3/5; 1d10+5 X; Pen 4; Clip 48; Rld 2Full; Tearing, assisted, with a weight of 11.5kg, costing 1050 thrones with a rarity of Very Rare. When fired on semi-auto or full-auto, it would gain an additional +10 to hit and an additional degree of success on a successful hit (due to counting as assisted), meaning that you're more likely to hit with more shots in every burst (an average of +1 shot on semi-auto or +2 shots on full-auto). For Astartes-use and vehicle-mounted Stormbolters, increase the damage and pen to 2d10 X, Pen 5.

Those same rules - or the latter part, anyway, can be used for any twin-linked weapon. A twin-linked Lascannon (such as that mounted on a Tarantula Sentry Gun, Predator Annihilator, or Land Raider, would have stats of Range 300m; S/2/-; 5d10+10 E; Pen 10; Clip 10; Rld 4Full; assisted, with a weight of 82.5kg, costing 10,050 thrones with a rarity beyond Very Rare (and thus only locatable at GM's discretion). When mounted on a vehicle like a Predator or Land Raider, assume auto-stabilised (always braced, may fire on semi- or full-auto as a half action) and targeters (reduce penalties on to-hit rolls by 10) as well, and ignore the Clip and Reload values as it's hooked up to a generator rather than using replaceable charge packs... so a Predator's twin-linked lascannon turret (BS 40 for Astartes gunner) firing at an Ork battlewagon (massive target, +30 to hit) at long range (normally -10, reduced to -0 by the targeter) on semi-auto (+20 to hit including assisted bonus) hits 90% of the time, and on an 80 or less, hits twice instead of once...

...demonstrating exactly why they're such terrifying anti-tank weapons. One hit at 5d10+10 E Pen 10 is bad enough... but two from a single attack?

It scales as well. A Hydra Flak Tank has four long-barrelled autocannons (450m range) linked together to a single trigger... so just quadruple the semi- and full-auto (S/3/20), clip (800) and reload (8Full) values, add +30 to hit for three guns aiding the first, and score +3 degrees of success on a successful hit...throw in the targeter and auto-stabilised as well (the former is a necessity, as it's meant to be shooting down fast-moving aircraft, the latter is, IMO, a standard part of a proper vehicle-mounted weapon)...

I used the following as an example:

The Gun Servitor on page 340 should have the following
stats for its twin autoguns: 90m; –/4/20; 1d10+4 I; Pen 0;
Tearing; Clip 30; Reload Full.

I sent on from there...unfortunatly it's the only statted twin linked weapon...

For twin-linking weapons, the FFG way seems to be to simply add the Tearing quality, which I don't really like.Obviously, for any weapon that already has the Tearing quality (Bolters!), this achieves nothing.

Doubling the rate of fire I think is equally pointless. If you start with a full auto rate of 10 and simply double it to 20, you're going to waste a lot of bullets and not get any extra hits unless you have a LOT of positive modifiers and get a really good BS result.

Increasing the damage is, as NO-1 said, not right either as you are firing more shots, not more powerful shots.

The only way I have done twin linked weapons in my game which my group and I are all comfortable with and think works well is to use the weapon's normal stats (except weight of course, which gets doubled), and simply double the number of hits you get. Quick, easy, simple, no 'working out' to do when you twin link weapons, and effectively deadly.

The Storm Bolter in the Space Marine creation file I have is listed as...

Name: Storm Bolter
Class: Basic
Range: 90m
ROF: -/4/10
Damage: 1d10+5
Pen: 4
Clip: 40
Reload: Full
Weight: 14 kg
Cost: 7,500
Availability: Very Rare

Savage said:

That's why, personally, doubling the rate of fire is (at the low end) a way of turning semi-auto and single weapons into more rapid-firing versions, and at the high end is simply to represent the massive ammo expenditure of bolting a pair of machine guns together,,, but that's all secondary to the "second weapon assists the first" rule that makes up the core of my twin-linking rules (which works from an established set of rules already in the rulebook... it's just that, under normal circumstances, it's very difficult to 'aid another' on an attack roll) and in turn allow that heightened rate of fire to actually mean something...

Full Auto 10 is the practical maximum under almost all circumstances - the best shots in the game (double-ten when rolling for BS, plus being from Gunmetal, and "The Gun is Mightier than the Sword" divination, +20 from advances for a total of BS 68, plus the maximum +60 bonus from circumstances and equipment, gives a BS of 128) can only achieve 12 degrees of success with the best possible roll, so even with a full-auto 20 weapon (like the twin autogun in the rulebook), 7 rounds are still wasted with every burst because the character simply can't hit any better than that. Give that guy a quad-linked weapon (such as the Hydra's autocannons, or a Sabre Defence Platform with Heavy Stubbers ), and he still only manages 15 degrees of success with a perfect roll (wasting 5 rounds from a full-auto burst from the autocannons, or 25 rounds from the quad heavy stubbers on the Sabre - 4 guns, full-auto 40)

So, higher full-auto values than 10 are there generally just to waste bullets... it might be seen as inefficient, but if you need to kill the enemy that badly, a few wasted rounds when firing what amounts to two or more machine guns fused together seems inevitable, really. At that point, the increased rate of fire is a deliberate measure to increase ammo expenditure, and all those wasted bullets are meant to be wasted.

Savage said:

The only (IMO) problem I can see with that is that getting twice as many hits for no cost seems incongruous - if you haven't increased the clip size to account for (logically) firing twice as many shots, and you aren't expending that doubled number of rounds that would be the natural cause of hitting twice with every 'hit', then that second 'hit' comes completely free... are you abstracting it and just making spare clips cost twice as much (representing twice as much power/ammo in each clip)?

There's a very good reason for using multiple weapons on the same platform-

Redundancy if one jams (though if they share the same magazine then it doesn't really apply) and Suppression fire, the more lead you can put in front of you, the better your chances of hitting someone and the wider area you can cover.

As far as a mechanic goes for mult-weapons with the same operator I extend the kill zone arc to 90degrees and increase the pinning test to -30, the Ballistic skill test to see if you hit some poor bastards is a -10, each degree of success means 1 other hit is scored.

Do not forget that a Stormbolter kicks like an enraged Grox.

Most pc's would not be able to handle the recoil of firing one without the assistance of power armor or a recoil system.

Recoil Gloves FTW

Peacekeeper_b said:

i just double the damage to keep the gameplay faster. more shots does equal more damage in my head so why not just double the damage and have it eat up two rounds per shot? also, doesn't a storm bolter just fire two shots at once? the rate of fire isn't faster, it just fires more rounds per shot, so.. double the damage.

Sirikhai said:

A straight doubling of damage values actually results in more than double the damage dealt - a weapon that deals 1d10+3 will remove 1d10 wounds from an unarmoured average human (assumed average of 5.5)... but a weapon that deals 2d10+6 will remove 2d10+3 wounds from that same unarmoured human (average of 14, nearly three times that of the weapon dealing only 'half' the damage).

Sirikhai said:

Stormbolters do have a higher rate of fire... achieved by having twice as many barrels (whether or not they fire simultaneously is another matter - they're just as likely to alternate firing) - in any given space of time, a stormbolter fires twice as many shells as a bolter, approximately. Remember, Stormbolters aren't just twin-linked bolters... the combi-bolters used during the Great Crusade and the Heresy were twin-linked bolters, and the design was refined into the contemporary stormbolter in the decades that followed... the stormbolter is more akin to a single gun with two barrels than to two seperate guns working off the same trigger.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

ah too true. thank you for the correction.

You could apply the Dual Shot Talent to a Bolter, representing the simultaineous strike of both shots.

Actualy I've bean thinking about this and two Sustained Fire Dice is -/-/10, how about a ROF of S/2/5 and a basic (Split) Clip of 48 (2X24) and Fire Selectors only Double the Clip size to 96 in a 4X Split clip of 24 each segment.

I'm not sure if non Space marine storm bolters are still cannon. I'd probably make them available anyway but make them very rare and valuable.

Stormbolter

Type: Basic Bolt
Range: 90
RoF: S/3/6
Damage: 1d10+6X
Pen: 4
Clip: 20(x2)
Rld: 1 Full (each)
Special: Tearing
Wt: 9kg
Cost: 1500

Optional: Although the weapon has two magazines each one feeds a single barrel and it does not have a fire selector, and rounds are taken from each magazine in turn.

Optional: If the weapon suffers a jam or only one magazine is loaded only one barrel fires and it's rate of fire is S/2/- until the jammed weapon is cleared or reloaded. If the weapon suffers another jam during this time the weapon cannot fire until resolved. If both barrels are jammed they must be cleared individually.

You could have rules for firing two shells on single shot mode, possible treating as dual shot as Agmar_Strick said but TBH a fully auto bolter is dangerous enough IMHO because:

Astartes Stormbolter

Type: Basic Bolt
Range: 100
RoF: S/3/6
Damage: 2d10+2X
Pen: 5
Clip: 60
Rld: 2 Full
Special: Tearing
Wt: 14kg
Cost: *

Face Eater said:

I think he might have something to say about non-Astartes stormbolters being non-canon. As might she .

Face Eater said:

One thing I feel I should point out - Astartes bolt weapons deal 2d10 X, Pen 5 damage... the reason Brother-Sergeant Agamorr's bolt pistol (in Purge the Unclean) deals 2d10+2X damage is because he has the Mighty Shot talent, which adds +2 to ranged weapon damage.

Well, I thought I'd point out that in the wargame there are both storm bolters and twin-linked bolters, and they behave differently. And as we all know, the tabletop is usually abstracted the the point of obscuring minor differences, so it might be something to consider.

The combi-bolter (of the CSMs) is the precursor of the Storm Bolter (the TT counts it as a TL bolter), whereas the Storm Bolter is the (relatively) refined and perfected version. They don't fire at twice the rate of a standard bolter (like the combi-bolter) but slightly slower so as to improve accuracy and reliability. They also use drum feeds, belt-feeds and/or specially-made twin-clips. They probably won't take standard bolter clips, but the combi-bolter can.

I'd give the combi-bolter the bolter's statline with a slightly shorter range, +50% weight and price, with a 2 steps reduction in Availability and the Tearing quality, with the individual Jam rules Face Eater put up. But give the Storm Bolter a slightly longer range, increase the damage by +2, and add a modified Reliable rule (Jams on a 98-00 for example). Both would also be completely unable to be fired one-handed (because of the weight) without power armour.

Just my 2p.

the problem with making better bolt weapons is that the only real thing you can improve is the clip,rof and accuracy, since bolts actually is small rockets, you cannot make them go faster or harder just because you have a better gun, so the storm bolter is likely to fire bigger better bolts to do more damage.

Storm bolters are just faster firing weapons (not literally, but indirectly based on two guns firing instead of one). Twin linking is a really abstract concept GW came up with and won't let go of. Tying two ak 47s together and pulling the triggers at the same time doesn't do anything except put more ammunition downrange.

A stormbolter is an evolution of the twinlinked bolter, so I would say it can full auto unlike a twin linked bolter. A twin linked bolter should literally just be two bolters strapped together and fired simultaneously. So, S/4/- 48 clip and that's it.

A storm bolter, being a specialist design is going to be able to full auto. It would look like a twin bolter but with a full auto capacity, something like: S/4/8

And that is it.

If twin linked weapons just doubled their damage output for each shot the storm bolter would be the BEST anti tank gun in the game. What with an astartes storm bolter doing 4D10X Pen 10 damage on FULL AUTO...

The fact that its tactical use is not to take out tanks but to take out massed infantry should prove it is only an increase of fire that comes from twin linking, not double damage.

Thus the following:

Stormbolter

Type: Basic Bolt
Range: 90
RoF: S/4/8
Damage: 1d10+5X
Pen: 4
Clip: 24(x2) (or single Drum magazine with 60 - adds 2 kg to weight requires 2 Full reload)
Rld: 1 Full (each)
Special: Tearing
Wt: 10kg

Astartes Stormbolter

Type: Basic Bolt
Range: 100
RoF: S/4/8
Damage: 2D10X
Pen: 5
Clip: 24(x2) (or single Drum magazine with 60 - adds 2 kg to weight requires 2 Full reload)
Rld: 1 Full (each)
Special: Tearing
Wt: 14kg

Combi-bolter

Type: Basic Bolt
Range: 90
RoF: S/4/-
Damage: 1d10+5X
Pen: 4
Clip: 24(x2)
Rld: 1 Full (each)
Special: Tearing
Wt: 10kg

Astartes Combi-bolter

Type: Basic Bolt
Range: 100
RoF: S/4/-
Damage: 2D10X
Pen: 5
Clip: 24(x2)
Rld: 1 Full (each)
Special: Tearing
Wt: 14kg

Combi bolters are slightly more likely to jam (so on a 93-00 they jam).

To me that is all that is required. That turns the bolter into a very nasty anti infantry machine gun carried in hand.

Hellebore

N0-1_H3r3 said:

The Astartes bolt pistol does. But I suspect a boltgun has substantially more power than a bolt pistol; then again, it depends on the source.

Edit: wow, a sister with a storm bolter... that thing looks like it's going to send her flying if she fires.

Astartes weaponery, and especially a stormbolter, should not be fired without power armor. I do not understand how that Comissar still lives, badass or not. His left arm should have flown from Armageddon to Holy Terra...