Some advice please, my fellow GMs.

The Guardsman in my group recently got his hands on an AutoCannon. With Strength and Toughness of 50, he can atually lug this sucker around with him, and with Bulging Biceps and a BS of 50+, he can actually use it reliably without even bracing it. (It's long range means it's usually fired on Short Range, and on Full Auto the bonuses cancel out the penalty for firing unbraced).

That's all good, he style was always "in your face", and he does love his Eviscerator too

The problem is that it's massive damage potential (a few DoS and you'll be rolling some 12+ D10s) with its big chance of a few Righteous Furys leave the other players feeling somewhat useless. We all agree that while the weapon is cool, but somewhat unbalanced

I've ruled that when operated alone, it gains the Unreliable quality, but apart from being strict with the encumbrance rules, I don't see how to adress this. I do not wan't to take the weapon away from him: It's cool and the group need their Dakka I just want to let the others feel they are doing the Emperors work too

Advice?

Wow, that is one tough hombre...

Well, what else is in your group?

I do see some problems:
- No space station would allow someone to lug along a Autocannon, neither would most Hive Worlds, its a war weapon, not a pdw
- Ammo weigh alot too
- Reloading time should increase dramatically....put the thing down, get out the ammo, reload it, cock it, pick it up and aim again
- CQB are going to be a b*tch, those things are huge
- Battles onboard a space station or ship are outright lethal, blowing you ways through bulkheads and into space

So yeah, he can use it...on a war world or on a outstretched feudal world...

Yeah, Uthak the primitive from G'narhl is one tough cookie, and has surviived some hilariously violent moment. Like when most of the group were wiped in their sleep as an assasin blew up their stone hut with a Krak missile, Uthak digs himself out of the rubble, wiping dust off his uniform, none the worse for wear

The group are all on their 7th or 8th rank, so I don't mind them packing some Ooomph (The Psycher packs a vicios Blood Boil, and with Seal Wounds the party are always up for more beatings), but now the Assassin is feeling out-shone on home-turf (he was the main Shoota-Boy until now)

What is a CQB?

Obviously, he cannot carry this around everywhere, and for undercover operations it's a big No-No. So far, it's only been used when appropriate (going into the Heretics lair for a righteous cleansing, etc) so I can't fault the players for excessive Munchkinism, I'm mainly concerned with the elusive "Game Balance"

CQB=close quarters battle.

If it's only being used in full out battle situations, then it seems alright. The dude should be a huge fire magnet and the giant gun should be liability in tight spaces. The assassin shouldn't be trying to out full out assault a dude with heavy weapons. More sniping and close quarters murder for the assassin.

The other trick would be ambushers or attackers going to melee with the Guardsman - don’t think Autocannon's come in pistol size so he either drops or opens himself up to a reaction attack when he steps back.

After some consideration (and looking up the stats), it's a crew served weapon and without power armour there's no way he should be operating it solo unless he's hunkered down with at least a bipod mount and braced.

Well, there are some examples in the Fluff of characters solo-operating Autocannons, and a few Youtube searches display current-tech autocannons also operated by just one man. Granted, these are not "hip-fired" weapons, but it is still possible for one man to move around (albeit very uncomfortable and impractical)

So perhaps my error was saying "yes" in the first place, but done is done. I felt the heavy stubber be somewhat lacking in power, and thus the Autocannon it was. As a compensation, I ruled that solo-operating gains the Unreliable quality, increasing the chance of jams.

Well,

The unreliable is understandable, I would also double or triple the reload time, normally you have an assist with that

Up the reload time considerably, the unreliable quality makes a lot of sens so stick with that

#Also, the Assassin shouldn't feel upstaged by the Guardsman, if he kicks down a door with an Autocannon, EVERYONE will shoot at him. The assassin is the dude who sneaks through the window and provides support from a distance. If he still feels jealous than by all means, let him be the one to kick the door down

I like this : Heavy with Autocannon

Thanks for the input guys, I'll stick to the Unreliable quality, double reload time, make sure to enforce the move/agility penalties from exceeding carrying capacity, and generally point out that he is carrying around something in the weight, size and shape of an Olympic weightlifting bar at all times

and a few Youtube searches display current-tech autocannons also operated by just one man. Granted, these are not "hip-fired" weapons, but it is still possible for one man to move around (albeit very uncomfortable and impractical)

What exactly do you mean by a "current-tech autocannon" (I'm starting to suspect that our definitions might be a little different)? And more importantly, who's crazy enough to use an automatic cannon like that in real life?

Regarding reloading times and reliability, I consider the Heavy weapons from the books to be the heaviest man-portable and fireable weapons that are still not in need of being crew-served.

Otherwise... well, he's the heavy weapons guy. If he's in his element (and in an investigation-heavy game, that won't happen too often), he should outshine everyone else on the dakka side. The assassin will most likely have the advantage as soon as the group can only pack their pistols, when the guardsman stands there with his hellpistol and the assassin has his needler...

Cifer said:

Personally, I tend to distinguish between crew-served and single-man-portable on a purely practical level - sure, there are guys big and strong enough to be able to haul around an autocannon and two spare drums of ammo and fire it without a bipod or tripod (the disadvantage there is that the gun takes two hands to hold, and unless you're a mutant with a third arm, that leaves you unable to reload the gun without putting it down first... and if you do have that third arm, you've got a whole stack of different problems)... but they're not abundant, and even for men of such considerable might, it's often easier to make use of a loader and a tripod, especially if you're defending a position and don't want to be bracing that 40kg heavy bolter against your thigh in anticipation the whole time.

It is, of course, a different matter for the Astartes and the Sororitas... assuming SB8 including armour and TB6, a lone Space Marine can quite happily carry 337kg of equipment without slowing down (about three times as much as the strongest unaugmented human), and a Sister Militant (SB5 in armour, TB3 average - Retributor sisters are likely to be stronger and/or tougher because of their role as heavy weapon operators) is strong enough to carry a Heavy Bolter and two spare hoppers of ammo and still have strength left for a few kilos of other items on top of that...

Demo said:

For example the XM307

It's only 19Kg, but the "old version" (The Mark 19 used in 'Nam) weighed in at about 35.

These might not be directly comparable to the 55Kg Autocannon in the Inquisitors Handbook, but they are Man-Portable, crew-operated Autocannons nonetheless.

It is, of course, a different matter for the Astartes and the Sororitas... assuming SB8 including armour and TB6, a lone Space Marine can quite happily carry 337kg of equipment without slowing down (about three times as much as the strongest unaugmented human)

From the stat bonuses we've seen from the published NPC marine, that would be a rather weak one. Don't forget the Unnatural Strength (*3) and Unnatural Toughness (*2)...

Cifer said:

It's only Unnatural Strength (x2) - apply the armour's +2 SB after the doubling (so he's SB8, with a +2 on top for being in power armour).

Remember that the published NPC Marine in Purge the Unclean is not a typical Space Marine, though. He's a long-serving Deathwatch Veteran (already more capable than most to have been selected by the Deathwatch, and with 3 decades additional Deathwatch experience on top of that), and thus his stats are higher than those expected of a less experienced Marine, and his equipment is of similarly high quality (the armour, primarily - it's Artificier armour). I'm working from Str 38, T 38 (unnatural x2 for both), for bonuses of SB 6 and TB 6 respectively. The power armour then adds +20 to the strength (with Agamorr's Str 68, SB 10 suggesting that the armour bonus is added on top of the Unnatural Strength), for a total of Str 58 (SB 8).

I agree with the majority. It sounds like everything is as it should be. At the levels they are, and the talents he has, it seems appropriate. It's a tough item to lug around normally, but if they are only using it for main battles that should be fine.

If it still bothers you, one thing as a GM you could do is limit the ammunition available for it and make it expensive. Not everyone will stock up the ammo, and not everyone will be willing to sell it. Also, you could consider giving a penalty to dodging or AGI while carrying it. The guardsman might be able to carry it and shoot it, but it is still awfully large and unwieldy. Kinda hard to bob and weave to avoid attacks while carrying it.

If the assassin is feeling left out and diminished, work with the assassin player. What kind of assassin is he? Gunslinger? Sniper? Moritat? There are some nasty combos they all can take. Help the assassin find his 'niche'. Perhaps working in a mission or plot to get them a modified needler or something appropriate to their style. It wouldn't even necessarily need to be something that increases their threat/dakka, but a cool toy like a stealth cloak or implant, etc.

Darth Smeg said:

The Mk 19 is an automatic grenade launcher, not a cannon. Nitpicking, I know. Personally I've always considered a 40K autocannon to be more like a 25mm bushmaster or even the good old Bofors 40mm going by the size of the models for the TTG.

But hey, ultimately it's up to the GM and there's nothing wrong going with the rules as they are written.

As for me, I wouldn't let any of my players run around with an autocannon unless he was wearing power armour but to be honest I don't think getting one would ever occur to them. We tend to focus more on the investigative side of DH anyway, and I think we can all agree that they aren't exactly the ideal weapon for undercover work...

I also have always associated autocannons with Bushmasters and Bofors guns.

it sounds like the core of your problem is the assassin. you need to make sure you have combaty situations where their particualr skills are superior to the autocannon, and vice versa really. maybe the assassin needs a gear improvement, but you also need to be careful of too much power escalation. Not that it could escalate much further than toting around autocannons!

Well, the Assassin is pretty leathel, and he's not really complaining, just feeling a little left in the shade by the sheer devastation unleashed by the Guardsman. The Assasin saved up for a Nomad Hunting Instrument, and with the Errata change to damage for Precise weapons he makes some pretty spectacular snipe attacks.

But a tripple hit (2 DoS)with an Autocannon results in rolling some 12 D10s, and there is almost always at least one Righteous Fury in there somewhere.

But I think it's all right, just have to enforce some encumbrance and common sense rules

Reminds me of Space Quest 3: "You pick up the ladder, and jam it in your pocket". As well as other games were you carry around 3 full sets of plate, 3 swords, 5 bows, 1000 arrows, 135 000 gold coins, etc etc

Why don't you make the ammo for the gun REALLY hard to get. Make it so he has to have a lisence or has to go to army supply areas (in which case they may be suspicious about where he got the gun and what he want's to use it for). This will mean that it will become impractical for him to use the gun in every battle. He will have to decide when best to use it.

That is a toughy, I'd always wondered what I'd do if it came up my games. I always thought they were on the wrong side of man portable for normal humans but then your guy does have phenominal stats. I've got a couple of ideas to help out:

• Only allow him to fire fully automatic if braced. This does go against the RAW for Bulging biceps but even a single shot from an AC is deadly. Even if you let him brace it on his knee or something.
• Allow him to carry and fire on full auto but only if he uses smaller clips say 5 or 10 rounds. With an extra turn on the reload time it should still be devastating just less often.

Face Eater said:

There's also the physical fatigue of using such a weapon. It's got to be exhausting to tote that thing around, much less fire it. Use it often enough, and your Guardsman is going to start suffering penalties due to fatigue.

Well, the rules already cover this, but you can operate for a number of hours = your TB before you start having to test Toughness to avoid any fatigue.

That means with a T of 50+, you can go 6 hours, maybe more, before any fatigue kicks in. With a few Fate Points for re-rolls, you can lug this baby round for an entire working day without any negative effects.

That means with a T of 50+, you can go 6 hours, maybe more, before any fatigue kicks in. With a few Fate Points for re-rolls, you can lug this baby round for an entire working day without any negative effects.

I don't know about you, but on days where I need an assault cannon, I've usually got better uses for my Fate Points...