I'm sort-of kit bashing a YZ 775. My model will have one turret and two radar dishes. It will be using a large base. The cards are faction neutral. If you have any other ideas for this model, please share.

How do these figures look to you all? Thanks.

The first 2 feel about right to me.

The listening post seems a bit over costed. His ability feels like it will be unused most games because most target locks are gained and used in the same turn. Perhaps if you changed it to the beginning of the combat phase. Even if you did, I still think it would be over costed unless your opponent brought ordinance.

The first 2 feel about right to me.

The listening post seems a bit over costed. His ability feels like it will be unused most games because most target locks are gained and used in the same turn. Perhaps if you changed it to the beginning of the combat phase. Even if you did, I still think it would be over costed unless your opponent brought ordinance.

Thanks. Good ideas. It was hard to determine cost because he esentiallly steals an action and gives it to someone else. I thought the points might be high too. What were you thinking? 30?

VB,

don't take this wrong, as I do not want to inhibit anyone's creativity and as a fellow designer, I know that these are always "works in progress".

I have a few questions/comments that are based, mostly, on my ignorance of what you are trying to create.

1. What is a "Satellite Barge"? I mean, "what is its purpose (in universe)? Why does it have two Systems Upgrade slots? The stats my be fine (or not) but I have no idea what "right" should look like.

2. The Repair Barge" has the ability to repair ships... remotely? ...in flight? ...in the middle of a battle? Sounds "gamey" to me. While a repair ship is certainly a reasonable idea, to be able to do this in a game is not. Perhaps this could be made into a valuable asset in a campaign, however.

3. Why does the "Listening Post" have higher Attack value? What would you think a repair ship would put in those slots? Also, I would think that this would be less well armed than the "Satellite Barge" (whatever that is) as the hard points and much of the ships mass/volume would be dedicated to various antennae, signal processors and specialist crew. As for the ship's special abilities, they are either over powered or likely to be under utilized... so they may actually balance out. I assume, from what you have written, that this ship has the ability to jam, as well as intercept, signals. If that is true, what you have written makes sense but but I'm not sure how I feel about how it is written. When I understand your intent/interpretation of "Satellite Barge", I may be able to give more constructive criticism/advice.

4. Kinda surprised you didn't start with the basic YZ-775 Medium Transport Maybe you did but just didn't post it. Anyway, I'd give that model: Attack:2(360*), Cannon, 2x Torpedo, 2x Crew, Modification

FYI- Gosric makes a 3D printed miniature ( Voidrunner Transport , available through Shapeways) that would be a great model for you!

Chris

VB,

don't take this wrong, as I do not want to inhibit anyone's creativity and as a fellow designer, I know that these are always "works in progress".

I have a few questions/comments that are based, mostly, on my ignorance of what you are trying to create.

1. What is a "Satellite Barge"? I mean, "what is its purpose (in universe)? Why does it have two Systems Upgrade slots? The stats my be fine (or not) but I have no idea what "right" should look like.

2. The Repair Barge" has the ability to repair ships... remotely? ...in flight? ...in the middle of a battle? Sounds "gamey" to me. While a repair ship is certainly a reasonable idea, to be able to do this in a game is not. Perhaps this could be made into a valuable asset in a campaign, however.

3. Why does the "Listening Post" have higher Attack value? What would you think a repair ship would put in those slots? Also, I would think that this would be less well armed than the "Satellite Barge" (whatever that is) as the hard points and much of the ships mass/volume would be dedicated to various antennae, signal processors and specialist crew. As for the ship's special abilities, they are either over powered or likely to be under utilized... so they may actually balance out. I assume, from what you have written, that this ship has the ability to jam, as well as intercept, signals. If that is true, what you have written makes sense but but I'm not sure how I feel about how it is written. When I understand your intent/interpretation of "Satellite Barge", I may be able to give more constructive criticism/advice.

4. Kinda surprised you didn't start with the basic YZ-775 Medium Transport Maybe you did but just didn't post it. Anyway, I'd give that model: Attack:2(360*), Cannon, 2x Torpedo, 2x Crew, Modification

FYI- Gosric makes a 3D printed miniature ( Voidrunner Transport , available through Shapeways) that would be a great model for you!

Chris

Chris,

Thanks for the feedback. Your questions show that I left a lot of information out. First of all, you are correct. I ordered two Voidrunners. That model comes with a communications dish. I'm still working on the model, but I cut the top turret from one and put both dishes on top. I saw this as an opportunity to design ships that would have practical military value as support ships. The Satelite Barge equivalent would be a WW2 radio vehicle. For readers who might not be familiar, several armies in WW2 equipped vehicles with high powered radios for long distance communication. These vehicles sometimes traveled with reconnaisance units, well beyond the range of standard short range radios which were more common. These radio posts could also be set up in between the main force and the advance elements of recon, to ensure a communication link between the two forces. What does that mean for the SW universe? I considered that tactical units in the SW galaxy would need such vehicles when patrolling the outer rim or beyond. Possibly two strike forces would need to coordinate movements over extreme distances. The satelite barge would not be intended to be a front line ship, but then again neither was the CR90 at first. I based the points on what a crummy funkerlastwagen would be in space. The player could put better weapons on it, but it would add up. The strength lies in the system upgrades. With the three that are available to us now, it doesn't seem like two on one vessel would be broken.

Yes, the Repair Barge is "gamey." Would it be better if it gave the abillity to recharge one shield? We have no idea how the shields work. For all we know it might be possible for energy transfers to be conducted mid-flight. We can refuel fighter jets in mid-air.

Listening post was given more firepower because it would have been closer to danger. It would have been a surveilance/recon type vessel.

I figured that these models would be combat ineffective without upgrades, the ones with 1 attack die anyway. I figured that a typical player would use blaster turret, FCS, recon specialist, and weapons engineer in the listening post. The Lambda has the same offensive ability but the listening post would have to burn a focus to roll the same number of dice.

I intended for these ships to be support units. I thought the model would represent a ship that had more computers, detection, communication, etc. and less standard weaponry. I gave it weapon options to be interesting. After all, Sd.Kfz 223 and 250 still had light defensive armament. I appreciate the dialogue and welcome any further ideas.

HP/SP seems rather low for a large base ship. all the other generic Large bases have a 10 HP+SP base.

Maybe 4HP and 6SP that would be like the B-wing compared to the Y-Wing for Large Bases.

Also,

Why the double Systems upgrades?

The Wookiee page says they could equip Torpedoes.

It Also says it could equip Turbo Lasers. Maybe a version that Adds +1A when attacking other Large Base or Larger Bases.

The target lock, and remote repair abilities seem a little fishy to me. Still if an astromech can remove a damage card I suspect a ship could too, though I would place steep movement restrictions on such an ability, It could be abused with Biggs.

For the target lock, instead of reversing the lock, weird if the new locking ship doesn't have a targeting comp I would give friendly units within range three unlimited range on their target locks and enemies within range three target locks only within range 1 to 2. That feels more like e-war to me. Though the costing would need yo be checked. Perhaps use the base model and add some different ps pilots and then have a unique "upgrade" slot that covered the various versions of the ship.

HP/SP seems rather low for a large base ship. all the other generic Large bases have a 10 HP+SP base.

Maybe 4HP and 6SP that would be like the B-wing compared to the Y-Wing for Large Bases.

Also,

Why the double Systems upgrades?

The Wookiee page says they could equip Torpedoes.

It Also says it could equip Turbo Lasers. Maybe a version that Adds +1A when attacking other Large Base or Larger Bases.

I like what you're saying about HP. This particular model has two communication dishes and would function as more of a "tech" ship, so that is why there are two system upgrades. It forfeited weaponry for technology.

The target lock, and remote repair abilities seem a little fishy to me. Still if an astromech can remove a damage card I suspect a ship could too, though I would place steep movement restrictions on such an ability, It could be abused with Biggs.

For the target lock, instead of reversing the lock, weird if the new locking ship doesn't have a targeting comp I would give friendly units within range three unlimited range on their target locks and enemies within range three target locks only within range 1 to 2. That feels more like e-war to me. Though the costing would need yo be checked. Perhaps use the base model and add some different ps pilots and then have a unique "upgrade" slot that covered the various versions of the ship.

Col. Jendon already allows ships without TL to acquire them. What you're saying about mid-flight repairs is like what Chris said. Good points.

Just a thought:

Fighter Group Cdr.

Three sensor upgrade slots.

SA: (something like) a friendly ship range 1-3 may use one of your sensor upgrade cards, then flip that card over.

VB,

I think you might want to look elsewhere for analogs to your designs, perhaps something similar to the following:

ELINT/SIGINT ship , modeled on USN AGER-type (ex. USS Pueblo, AGER-2). Basically a small cargo/personnel transport equipped to collect intel from enemy communications. Minimal armament (machine guns). X-wing stats: start with ORS YT-1300 stats. Consider giving it HWK-290 maneuver dial as it usually has no need/capability for high speed/maneuverability. Attack: 1 or 2 max. At least one, maybe two Crew slots (Intelligence Agent and Recon Specialist seem appropriate ). One or two System Upgrade slots ( any of the published ones would work ). In-universe, this ship would hang out, just out of defensive fighter range of enemy/neutral planets, collecting info. In-game, this ship would be more of a target/objective, not really a useful/desirable combat vessel- "Rescue the Intel Ship" scenarios come to mind.

Surveillance ship, modeled on USN T-AGOS type (ex. USNS Victorious, T-AGOS-19). These are, ostensibly, ocean surveillance ships equipped to gather underwater acoustical data ( they are also incredibly capable platforms for detecting and tracking submarines! ). Minimal to no armament; their survivability rests on being "civilian" non-combatants and rarely operating close to shore. X-wing stats: similar to above but I would go with something closer to the ORS YT-1300 (I 'll explain why later ). One or two Crew slots, one or two System Upgrade slots, one or two Modification slots ( ala Imperial Guard TIE/IN ). In-universe, this ship would rely on stealth and powerful sensors to shadow Imperial fleets, gathering intel and tracking their movements; when threatened, ship would use superior speed to run for it. In-game, this ship would, again, best serve as the focus for a scenario or could also be forced to make a "fighting withdrawal/escape".

Radar Picket , modeled on USN DER type (ex. USS Durant, DER-389). WWII era Destroyer Escorts converted to Radar Picket ships to provide early warning of incoming attacks, allowing time for defensive measures to be taken by the fleet they were protecting. Armament varied but focused mostly on anti-air. X-wing stats: start with ORS or named YT-1300 ( I'd go with latter as this ship will be sailing in harms way! ) One or two Crew slots and one or two System Upgrade slots ( in lieu of heavier armament ). In-universe, this ship would be an out-rider of larger fleets or perhaps as a scout, helping to coordinate defensive actions. In-game, this ship should have some capability ( Upgrade, Crew or text ability ) to improve the performance/capability of friendly fighters (something like "give any friendly ship a free action or target lock" or "one friendly ship within range has its PS increased by 2" or something like Draw Their Fire , the ability to pass actions/TL between ships or something similar. Again, this ship would make an excellent point of a scenario!

I'd look at the upcoming Rebel Transport for some useful Actions/abilities. Also, consider a Astromech Droid slot in lieu of a Crew or Upgrade slot on a design, just to mix things up/make a design distinct from the others. Likewise, one of your designs might have the ability to have TWO Modifications.

As for the "Repair Barge" and it's in-game repair abilities, I'd drop the idea as written but look at the Rebel Transport and some of its abilities- i think one of them allows the ability to reinforce the shields of friendly craft within 'X' range. If not, consider creating an Upgrade card: Shield Booster- "increase the shields of one friendly ship at range 1. Place 2 shield tokens on the friendly ship; remove any remaining, unused shield tokens at the end of the turn".

FYI- the YZ-775 Medium Transport was a larger ship than the YT-1300 and similar Light Freighters, so I'd expect to see a bit more Hull than the YT-1300 but you could make the argument that bigger is not necessarily stronger. Likewise, it would probably be slower and less maneuverable than the YT-series, so I like you choice of the HWK-290 dial (perhaps even the Lambda shuttle?).

Also, I'd consider changing the name of some of your proposed ship types. "Satellite Barge" is really a misnomer and rather confusing, as there are no "satellites" involved anywhere (unless its function is to deploy/service/collect intel from such satellites), nor is it a satellite of anything (AFIK). It this is an in-universe name from some source, so be it but otherwise, I'd give it a new, more accurate/meaningful name.

Chris

Chris - This is the exact type of feedback I was hoping for. My military knowledge is focused on ground tactics. Thanks. I'll work up some new cards.

VB,

another current military analog you might look at would be the AWACS. In-game, it would be a ship that provides command and control bonuses to friendly ships- kinda like the Radar Picket I mentioned in previous post.

BTW- what kind of military knowledge are you talking about? Historical gaming? Research? Military service?

My own back ground includes almost 30 years military service in Armor, Cavalry and now as First Sergeant of a Forward Support Company (Ordnance), plus over 40 years of historical, sc-fi and fantasy wargaming.

Chris

My professional armor career isn't as long as yours. My love for tanks continued after dicharge, so I volunteered for private collectors and museums. You'd be surprised what people let you do if you offer your time. I got to drive one of the few running Stug IIIGs. The high point in my life. I was also a regular driver of an OT810 Sd.kfz251 conversions.

My professional armor career isn't as long as yours. My love for tanks continued after dicharge, so I volunteered for private collectors and museums. You'd be surprised what people let you do if you offer your time. I got to drive one of the few running Stug IIIGs. The high point in my life. I was also a regular driver of an OT810 Sd.kfz251 conversions.

Color me jealous! Yep, I'm olive drab with envy

Chris

Still a work in progress...

Signal Intelligence (intercept and decode enemy communications)

PS1

1-1-6-6

crew, crew, systm, systm

Hawk dial

Surveillence (observe and track enemy fleets)

PS3

0-1-6-6

Crew, crew, system, system, two mods

YT dial

Picket (Patrol outer defenses of larger fleet)

PS5

3-2-6-6

crew, crew, systm,systm, droid

YT dial

SA: Can switch TL tokens on friends in range 1-2.

SA: Remove TLs on friendly ships in range 1-2

SA: After you spend a target lock, you may pass it to a friendly ship at range 1-2

VB,

I like where you are going with this but would caution you to be on guard against creating over-powered monstrosities.

The SIGINT ship looks good, so far.

The Surveillance Ship also seems interesting, especially since you gave it no weapons ! I would consider removing one of the Crew slots and replacing it with an Astromech slot. My reasoning here, is that this ship would be on-station, laying low, for extended periods; having a large crew on a small ship would rapidly exhaust the on-board expendables, like food, water and air. The two Modification slots, however, would allow you to fit Stealth and Engine upgrades (both appropriate for such a ship).

The Picket Ship, is the one I have concerns about:

1. The Evade seems high, especially for something that is basically an upgraded freighter. Even the Millennium Falcon only has an Evade of '1'... just sayin'. If this meets your intent, go with it but of the three designs, I'd think the second one would have the higher Evade score as it is unarmed.

2. You gave it 2x Crew and a Droid slot- I'd suggest a Crew OR Droid, especially considering my comments below.

3. The SA (Special Abilities?)- Do all three apply to the Picket Ship? If so, when you combine all three with the two Crew slots and an Astromech and two Modifications, I think you have something that crosses the line into "OP Monstrosity"-ville. My suggestion would be to figure out what abilities it should have, then determine if there are any existing Upgrades, Crew or Modifications that would accomplish this. If you have to, create your own Crew/Upgrade/Mod cards or give the ship its own Special Abilities but if you do... if you do... consider if you can/should give up some other ability/stat/upgrade, etc... Also, you have to determine how these abilities fit into the game and interact with other ships/abilities. For example: Do these abilities require an Action? Do they have a prerequisite, like "need TL" or "Focus"? Are there limitations, such as range or number of ships that can be effected? Just stuff to think about.

Chris

VB,

I like where you are going with this but would caution you to be on guard against creating over-powered monstrosities.

The SIGINT ship looks good, so far.

The Surveillance Ship also seems interesting, especially since you gave it no weapons ! I would consider removing one of the Crew slots and replacing it with an Astromech slot. My reasoning here, is that this ship would be on-station, laying low, for extended periods; having a large crew on a small ship would rapidly exhaust the on-board expendables, like food, water and air. The two Modification slots, however, would allow you to fit Stealth and Engine upgrades (both appropriate for such a ship).

The Picket Ship, is the one I have concerns about:

1. The Evade seems high, especially for something that is basically an upgraded freighter. Even the Millennium Falcon only has an Evade of '1'... just sayin'. If this meets your intent, go with it but of the three designs, I'd think the second one would have the higher Evade score as it is unarmed.

2. You gave it 2x Crew and a Droid slot- I'd suggest a Crew OR Droid, especially considering my comments below.

3. The SA (Special Abilities?)- Do all three apply to the Picket Ship? If so, when you combine all three with the two Crew slots and an Astromech and two Modifications, I think you have something that crosses the line into "OP Monstrosity"-ville. My suggestion would be to figure out what abilities it should have, then determine if there are any existing Upgrades, Crew or Modifications that would accomplish this. If you have to, create your own Crew/Upgrade/Mod cards or give the ship its own Special Abilities but if you do... if you do... consider if you can/should give up some other ability/stat/upgrade, etc... Also, you have to determine how these abilities fit into the game and interact with other ships/abilities. For example: Do these abilities require an Action? Do they have a prerequisite, like "need TL" or "Focus"? Are there limitations, such as range or number of ships that can be effected? Just stuff to think about.

Chris

Oh Lord No! Those SA (Special Abilities) did not all land on the picket. Those were just ideas I had and wasn't set on who they should go to, if they should go at all. They were a few ideas I came up with that might involve radar dishes, electroic signls, yadda yadda. Then I thought about the role of each ship and if there was a SA that I could use tactically, in game.

This is what I was thinking, roughly:

SIGINT, Deals with scrambling/unscrambling electronic signals. SA: Action: Remove TLs on 1 friendly ship in range 1-2.

Recon, no weapons. Deals with data collection, it is familiar with enemy signals. SA: Action: If a friendly ship within range 1-2 is targeted by an attack, you may reverse the TL tokens.

Picket, sends signal reports back to the fleet. Focus is more on sending than receiving. First line of defense and must be able to defend itself during a timely withdrawal. SA: After you spend a target lock, you may pass it to a friendly ship at range 1.

The two agility on the picket was a mistake. My bad.

We play a lot of special scenarios at the LGS, so I predict that any of these ships will get major play if we can hammer out some balanced rules.

Signal Intelligence (intercept and decode enemy communications)

PS1

1-1-6-6

crew, crew, systm, systm

Hawk dial

Surveillence (observe and track enemy fleets)

PS3

0-1-6-6

Crew, system, system, droid, two mods

YT dial

Picket (Patrol outer defenses of larger fleet)

PS5

3-1-6-6

crew, systm,systm, droid

YT dial

Great Ideas again, Chris. Thanks for the continued assistance. I'll post pics of the ship once I get it finished. A sneak peak of it can bee seen in the background of recent Action Transport project pics.

The target lock, and remote repair abilities seem a little fishy to me. Still if an astromech can remove a damage card I suspect a ship could too, though I would place steep movement restrictions on such an ability, It could be abused with Biggs.

For the target lock, instead of reversing the lock, weird if the new locking ship doesn't have a targeting comp I would give friendly units within range three unlimited range on their target locks and enemies within range three target locks only within range 1 to 2. That feels more like e-war to me. Though the costing would need yo be checked. Perhaps use the base model and add some different ps pilots and then have a unique "upgrade" slot that covered the various versions of the ship.

What about having repaired ship gain a stress token after being repaired? And cannot be repaired if ship currently has a stress token on it.

Kiloden,

That would be interesting. I was just replaying the force unleashed, love being the evil force user, but on one world a remote platform projects a shield at an ATST. What about a shield projection effect, have to stay within range 3 and either you can't be hurt while the effect is on, or hits on you effect the shields of the projecting ship? Sort of a reverse Biggs effect.

VB,

I think I'd give the Picket Ship two Crew and ditch the Droid (unless you can think of a particular Droid that gives an ability you particularly feel appropriate for this ship) as I think there are several Crew cards that could work here. Alternately, give the ship one (or more) of your Special Abilities but you will have to spell out exactly how it works (like the special description cards for Ion and Bombs, etc...). I think it needs some ability(s) that enhance the capability of defending fighters (isn't there something like this in the upcoming Rebel Transport?) maybe the ability to acquire TLs and hand them off to friendly ships or remove TLs. Not sure I'm on board with your "reverse the TL" ability but I suppose you could justify it with enough technobabble.

Perhaps Ship #1 and/or #2 could have the ability to look at enemy maneuver dials and change a friendly ship's maneuver. They are, after all, receiving enemy signals pretty much simultaneous with the enemy squad itself. Or maybe #2 could change its dial when it reveals it prior to movement. I also think that this ship would have the highest PS of the three as experience, skill and ability would be required of its mission more than the other two.

Chris

This might be good for the surveillence ship. Should we give this ship an energy slot and three energy?

VB,

I'd leave "Energy" to the huge ships. Your closest equivalents in the current game are the YT-1300, Firespray-31 and Lambda-class shuttle and none of them use energy allocation. There are some cool ideas from the Rebel Transport and Tantive IV (CR-90) that would be appropriate, like the Coordinate(?) Action that allows a friendly ship within range-X to take an action.

Chris

Ya know, I think energy use might be the way to go on this one. Just need to see the final rulesmon it. This ship is big enough to possibly benefit from those rules. Just a thought.

I was actually thinking energy and a single hard point for a Skipray Blastboat since it was supposed to be known for fighting capital ships. The possibilities have been opened up now that we are seeing the huge ship rules.

Oneway, Rookie,

that way lies madness! It will lead you down the dark path of wanting to retcon all the previously published ships as well. If you do Energy allocation on something the size of the Millennium Falcon, then why not the falcon herself? If you put it on the Skipray, then why not on the Firespray? Why not on snubfighters, since they mention "angling deflectors" and "set deflectors to double front" and such? Clearly, here was an opportunity to use (and justify) energy allocation. Leave Energy allocation as a province of the TRULY big ships (ones with multiple bases) unless there is something in the fluff about that particular ship design that sets itself apart from similar (already published) ships.

That said, these design would be for your own use, so do whatever the hell you want, since these ships would not be allowed in official tournament play anyways. Have fun!

Chris