Hello FFG community!

With rumours of Legion of the Damned getting a mini-dex, in which they can ally with ANY IMPERIAL army, I am keen to know about their rules in Deathwatch .

My Deathwatch is only used for creating Grey Knight Librarians, Apothicaries and Tech-Marines. This is because my campaign is very focused on the Ordo Malleus, which Daemonhunter is very useful for. Not least because of it's Grey Knight character creation.

Looking at preview images, the supplement Deathwatch: Honour the Chapter has a page with Legion of the Damned . Since they are the only other Space Marines I'd be interested in, I have a few questions for those who might know:

(1) Are there rules or just a mysterious description of them appearing?

(2) Are there rules for creating a Character or NPC?

(3) Is the book worth getting for just the Legion of the Damned?

Thank you for any help you can give.

There are rules for taking the stats of one killed PC Battle-Brother and having a LotD Legionnaire appear during a pivotal encounter which is based on his stats (but improved ofc). The player of the killed PC controls the Legionnaire.

I wouldnt buy the book just for LotD, it's just 3 pages, but I will it's a nice idea. And I am very much looking forward top the Codex LotD.

Alex

That makes sense. I'm of the opinion that Legion of the Damned are the souls of Space Marines who died loyal to the Emperor. In fact, I call them the Emperor's daemons.

I'll just house rule once I have the Codex. Good to know the book isn't worth it for 3 pages.

Don't get me wrong: the book is awesome. For DW campaigns. For GK campaigns utilizing LotD? Well, if you can throw around money, buy it. Otherwise, roll your own.

Alex

Didn't HTC also include rules for Blood Ravens? With those you can run yourselves a DoW2 campaign with DW rules

Yeah, just think about the endless possibilities! Like, playing out, how they got all those relics! Sleight of hand is a must

Don't get me wrong: the book is awesome. For DW campaigns. For GK campaigns utilizing LotD? Well, if you can throw around money, buy it. Otherwise, roll your own.

Alex

Yeah, I'll just rule my own.

From my own point of view, the Legion of the Damned are the daemons of the Chaos god known as the Emperor. Hence why, on the tabletop, I'm looking forward to having them as allies of Grey Knights, Battle Sisters and the Imperial ( Astra Militarium ) Guard. Hence why I thought of having them appear at times when the characters, especially Grey Knights, are getting their butts kicked. This won't be an every game event however, and it would require suitable faith in the Emperor to summon them....ahem....I mean have his divine protection manifest itself.

The Emperor Protects after all.

Agree to ak-73, the book is not bad at all.

"That makes sense. I'm of the opinion that Legion of the Damned are the souls of Space Marines who died loyal to the Emperor. In fact, I call them the Emperor's daemons." - I think many people share this opinion.

40K's implied theology doesn't really work like this (except that Gork and Mork make things problematic, but they have never been fleshed out at all. As do the Sisters' mysterious faith powers).

Things do not become gods in the warp because you believe in them. The Eldar did not believe in Slaanesh and then she was born. The chaos gods are crystallized emotions, as it were, NOT beliefs.

No amount of believing in the Emperor is going to turn him into a god. Hope and faith in the Emperor would be... um, helping to power Tzeentch or Nurgle, depending on how it is experienced.

Oh the fluff works like this, you just gotta find a way. Maybe the Emprah was a former chaos god, who, with the help of the other chaos gods, manifested. Afterwards he should help them to manifest, too, but he betrayed them. And that's why they are fighting and don't trust each other. (Blasphemy, I know...)

...and this reasoning just took me a minute, I think if you put more effort into it you can find a more reasonable way.

The legion of the damned are generally accepted to be the Firehawks chapter. This was clarified in white dwarf 99 (UK)

Not according to current Canon. As-is, the nature of the LotD is unclear and the subject of much speculation.

Alex

Its just another way that Games Workshop allows for speculation and shadowy half truths in the nature of the Imperium.

Not according to current Canon. As-is, the nature of the LotD is unclear and the subject of much speculation.

Alex

There's really no such thing as 'canon'. If there is I tend to take anything Rick Priestly wrote as being the immutable source (given he is the creator of 40k). Seeing as he wrote the article I'm referring to, my point stands.

You're welcome to believe whatever you want, the game is certainly big enough and has enough conflicts to allow many things to exist however you want to imagine them, but to argue this opinion is 'canon' (and therefore the only true answer) is just a farce. Even if you take Priiestly out of it, the older articles have never been officially retconned, just stated to be inconclusive proof. This still leaves more evidence for them being the Firehawks than any other explanation.

I found on a 40k wiki that the legion of damned is the remnants of the fire hawks chapter

However it happens much later ( in 963m41) than the Deathwatch timeline (817m41). So except if they can travel time there is the question of who can be the legion of the damned before the fire hawks disparition...

[sonorous tones]

Where the Warp is involved, time no longer matters.

Where the Emperor is involved, His Hand shall always grant protection, and always has granted protection.

When Slaanesh was born, Slaanesh had always existed. So too with the Legion.

[/sonorous tones]

At least, that's my take on it. Calling the LotD the GEoMK's daemons is pretty close to the mark, in my opinion. And saything that the GEoMK isn't a god because faith would fuel either Tzeentch or Nurgle is to try to frame Chaos, which is really silly when you think about it.

I found on a 40k wiki that the legion of damned is the remnants of the fire hawks chapter

However it happens much later ( in 963m41) than the Deathwatch timeline (817m41). So except if they can travel time there is the question of who can be the legion of the damned before the fire hawks disparition...

People who live in the warp CAN travel through time, or atleast move through it... differently and unpredicatably (that's why we can still have Chaos Space Marines that fought during the Heresy turning up, like... every Chaos character ever). So this isn't proof one way or the other.

This is the point I was driving at, actually. Cail just gets there faster.

Yours way way more characterful though

Not according to current Canon. As-is, the nature of the LotD is unclear and the subject of much speculation.

Alex

There's really no such thing as 'canon'. If there is I tend to take anything Rick Priestly wrote as being the immutable source (given he is the creator of 40k). Seeing as he wrote the article I'm referring to, my point stands.

You're welcome to believe whatever you want, the game is certainly big enough and has enough conflicts to allow many things to exist however you want to imagine them, but to argue this opinion is 'canon' (and therefore the only true answer) is just a farce. Even if you take Priiestly out of it, the older articles have never been officially retconned, just stated to be inconclusive proof. This still leaves more evidence for them being the Firehawks than any other explanation.

I would disagree. GW has been very vocal about current canon overshadowing and replacing what has been written previously. If this wasn't the case then the original "Space Marine" would be what is actually correct and contradict everything that has come after it.

"Canon" does not mean Gnosticism (ie the only "true answer" you referred to). Canon is simply the agreed upon set of beliefs, lore, rules what have you as they currently stand. Canon is what is most accepted but not absolute. For example, the Bible was not canonized until the 17th century (1647) to be exact and was debated upon up until that point and to current day.

The canon can and will change.

A minor point, but one that needed to be addressed.

Have they?. I've never seen them release anything to that effect officially in the *counts* 22 years I've been playing their games, all I've seen is forum users determined to prove that what their referencing is better than older sources repeat that arguement ad infinitum.

Well perhaps the new replaces the old is a bit of a simplification.

The more direct answer would be that there is no official canon, just a majority owned agreed upon view of how things happen as it is shaped by the authors at the black library and GW. It seems to be a very laissez-faire attitude of "everything is canon, nothing is canon" while those postulating that idea side overwhelmingly more towards newer explanations (as evidenced by what they write).

There is a Dan Abnett quote that sums it up nicely, but I am far too lazy at the end of my workday to locate it.