I was just trying to point out that some people want a model and maybe we shouldn't cry foul about something having the possibility of being released.

I feel completely justified in saying that I hope FFG never puts out a mini ISD because I'd hate to see them break the scale of the game that massively.

I'd much rather see them put out something that's on par to the CR-90 in terms of size and firepower. There is simply no reason to break something that badly when there's other better options out there.

I was just trying to point out that some people want a model and maybe we shouldn't cry foul about something having the possibility of being released.

I feel completely justified in saying that I hope FFG never puts out a mini ISD because I'd hate to see them break the scale of the game that massively.

I'd much rather see them put out something that's on par to the CR-90 in terms of size and firepower. There is simply no reason to break something that badly when there's other better options out there.

And then we go around again. I think the iconic ship is worth breaking the scale for. You don't. If FFG thinks there is a customer base enough for it they'll release it. My gut (so no scientific data involved) says that a lot of people buy the ships because they are cool, and have bought ISD's in the past because they are cool, and they will buy them again especially if FFG does another great detailed model. So if we have it why not include it in the rules? I don't think it will break it. Some agree, some don't.

My gut (so no scientific data involved) says that a lot of people buy the ships because they are cool

Considering how many people said they weren't going to buy A-Wings because they were out of scale, and we're talking about a matter of fractions of an inch here... How many people do you really think are going to buy a ISD that's 1/10th size it should be?

If all people want is a model, you can buy one right now on EBay for $25-50... Vs the $150-200 that FFG would charge.

Scale matters to a lot of people playing this game, make no mistake about that. Scale also matters to FFG and they're not I hope willing to break the scale that badly just for the sake of selling some models. Especially when they could sell just as many models by picking a ship that's the right size to start with.

How many people do you really think are going to buy a ISD that's 1/10th size it should be?

Alot of people would, because, like you, they are ISD worshippers.

It's the most iconic capital starship from the SW Universe. Scale or not, despite how many crusaders there are against them, FFG would make a killing selling them.

Alot of people would, because, like you, they are ISD worshippers.

You have seriously miss read my posts. I am by no means a ISD fan. It's a cool ship and all, but I much prefer the MonCal's.

I just don't want to see X-Wing broken in the name of making the ISD fanboi's out there happy by trying to force something that has no place in the game out there.

My gut (so no scientific data involved) says that a lot of people buy the ships because they are cool

Considering how many people said they weren't going to buy A-Wings because they were out of scale, and we're talking about a matter of fractions of an inch here... How many people do you really think are going to buy a ISD that's 1/10th size it should be?

If all people want is a model, you can buy one right now on EBay for $25-50... Vs the $150-200 that FFG would charge.

Scale matters to a lot of people playing this game, make no mistake about that. Scale also matters to FFG and they're not I hope willing to break the scale that badly just for the sake of selling some models. Especially when they could sell just as many models by picking a ship that's the right size to start with.

I'm sure scale matters to some, but I really have a hard time believing it matters that much. I have several A-Wings and it looks like a lot of other people, even on these forums, own them as well. To me it really does't matter at all

Its just seems kind of odd to me to complain about scale in a game system like epic where they admitted its already not to scale.

Alot of people would, because, like you, they are ISD worshippers.

You have seriously miss read my posts. I am by no means a ISD fan. It's a cool ship and all, but I much prefer the MonCal's.

I just don't want to see X-Wing broken in the name of making the ISD fanboi's out there happy by trying to force something that has no place in the game out there.

At least we can agree Mon Cal's are cooler. I view the ISD as opening the doors to the Mon Cal.

I'm sure scale matters to some, but I really have a hard time believing it matters that much.

If you were here when Wave 2 launched you'd know just how much it matters to people.

I view the ISD as opening the doors to the Mon Cal.

See what I really want, is a 4-6 inch long ISD, with 4-6 inch long Mon Cal's, 2-3 inch Neb B's, 1.5 in CR-90's, ect... and make Cap ship version of the game, like Attack Wing, but with bigger ships.

I'm sure scale matters to some, but I really have a hard time believing it matters that much.

If you were here when Wave 2 launched you'd know just how much it matters to people.

And yet.....those models sold well :S

I view the ISD as opening the doors to the Mon Cal.

See what I really want, is a 4-6 inch long ISD, with 4-6 inch long Mon Cal's, 2-3 inch Neb B's, 1.5 in CR-90's, ect... and make Cap ship version of the game, like Attack Wing, but with bigger ships.

This is just what I've been saying

And yet.....those models sold well :S

Yes. Lets compare a $15 model that's a fraction of an inch too large, to a $200 model that's 1/10th the proper size. There's no difference between the two cases at all...

And yet.....those models sold well :S

Yes. Lets compare a $15 model that's a fraction of an inch too large, to a $200 model that's 1/10th the proper size. There's no difference between the two cases at all...

I thought you were complaining about people's reaction to scale??? I'm pointing out that despite all the gnashing of teeth and moaning....those ships sold just fine the ISD would be no different

the ISD would be no different

Tell me, are you trying and failing to make a point, or are you simply trolling me?

Because if you can't see the difference in the two cases, I'm not sure there's anything more to be said.

People did refuse to buy the A-Wing because they thought it was out of scale, which it really isn't. It's the proper size. But if people had a fit over such a very small difference in the size they thought it should be, vs what it was... Again on something that only cost $15.

Do you honestly think people won't have the same issue when something is 1/10th the size it should be, and costs $200?

People will not buy the ISD period just because of that price point, that's a given. Not everyone who plays this game has that much cash to spend. Lots of people already are going to skip Wave 4 because of they've spent too much already. Lots of people will skip the CR-90 as well, because it costs $90.

Lots of people buy only 1 of each ship to save money, on again a $15 model. A $200 model will not sell like hotcakes, that's simple economics... No toy at that price sells well, no matter how popular it is. Throw in just how massively out of scale it is, and a lot of the people on the fence will get knocked off because they're not going to spend that much for something that far out of scale.

the ISD would be no different

Tell me, are you trying and failing to make a point, or are you simply trolling me?

Because if you can't see the difference in the two cases, I'm not sure there's anything more to be said.

People did refuse to buy the A-Wing because they thought it was out of scale, which it really isn't. It's the proper size. But if people had a fit over such a very small difference in the size they thought it should be, vs what it was... Again on something that only cost $15.

Do you honestly think people won't have the same issue when something is 1/10th the size it should be, and costs $200?

People will not buy the ISD period just because of that price point, that's a given. Not everyone who plays this game has that much cash to spend. Lots of people already are going to skip Wave 4 because of they've spent too much already. Lots of people will skip the CR-90 as well, because it costs $90.

Lots of people buy only 1 of each ship to save money, on again a $15 model. A $200 model will not sell like hotcakes, that's simple economics... No toy at that price sells well, no matter how popular it is. Throw in just how massively out of scale it is, and a lot of the people on the fence will get knocked off because they're not going to spend that much for something that far out of scale.

You're making an awful lot of assumptions on the price there buddy. FFG wouldn't charge $200 for this lol. I don't understand why you are so upset about this anyways. It's not even a thing yet, this is totally hypothetical and you're really getting too bent out of shape.

Also, having a different opinion than you doesn't = trolling. Screaming "troll! troll!" is the last bastion for those with no further rebuttals.

Just watch, using the Corvette as a test case, it's out of scale, it's spendy, but I can guaruntee that it will sell well. You can quote me and if I'm wrong, bring this post up and I'll apologize.

Why do people think that an ISD is the equivalent to a GR75?

Why do people think that an ISD is the equivalent to a GR75?

It's just your normal Strawman/Slippery Slope fallacies on the internet.

The whole thread was about finding a ship equivilent to the GR75 for the IMPS. Then it went way off course with a gloomer/doomer upset about hypothetical ISDs.

I'm not thrilled over the shift to 1/350 or so for the huge ships. I think FFG should have kept them the same scale as the fighters and increased the playing field size for Epic play. But I'm going to get a Transport and a Tantive IV anyways, because they will add fun to the game play, and the scale shift was minor enough that my curiosity got the best of me. But if the sliding scale does continue to slide? I'm out. The fighters aren't getting any smaller with each scale slide, so the baseline comparison will only become more drastic as bigger ships are squeezed down to fit in the game. Personally, I say keep to ship models that can fit on the playing field without having to be shrunk any more than already has happened. I'll never purchase an ISD that is a ship model, as there is just no way to keep it in the spirit of the game. There are other methods to introduce the concept of an ISD into the game without making such sacrifices. It will be interesting to see what FFG's take on this is. I can't see them destroying the integrity of their game after working so hard on each new ship that is added to preserve balance, playability and fluff.

I'm not thrilled over the shift to 1/350 or so for the huge ships. I think FFG should have kept them the same scale as the fighters and increased the playing field size for Epic play. But I'm going to get a Transport and a Tantive IV anyways, because they will add fun to the game play, and the scale shift was minor enough that my curiosity got the best of me. But if the sliding scale does continue to slide? I'm out. The fighters aren't getting any smaller with each scale slide, so the baseline comparison will only become more drastic as bigger ships are squeezed down to fit in the game. Personally, I say keep to ship models that can fit on the playing field without having to be shrunk any more than already has happened. I'll never purchase an ISD that is a ship model, as there is just no way to keep it in the spirit of the game. There are other methods to introduce the concept of an ISD into the game without making such sacrifices. It will be interesting to see what FFG's take on this is. I can't see them destroying the integrity of their game after working so hard on each new ship that is added to preserve balance, playability and fluff.

That ultimately would depend how much of those values, which I think almost all players covet, are tied to scale.For some not at all and for others it seems to be everything.

I'm not thrilled over the shift to 1/350 or so for the huge ships. I think FFG should have kept them the same scale as the fighters and increased the playing field size for Epic play. But I'm going to get a Transport and a Tantive IV anyways, because they will add fun to the game play, and the scale shift was minor enough that my curiosity got the best of me. But if the sliding scale does continue to slide? I'm out. The fighters aren't getting any smaller with each scale slide, so the baseline comparison will only become more drastic as bigger ships are squeezed down to fit in the game. Personally, I say keep to ship models that can fit on the playing field without having to be shrunk any more than already has happened. I'll never purchase an ISD that is a ship model, as there is just no way to keep it in the spirit of the game. There are other methods to introduce the concept of an ISD into the game without making such sacrifices. It will be interesting to see what FFG's take on this is. I can't see them destroying the integrity of their game after working so hard on each new ship that is added to preserve balance, playability and fluff.

That ultimately would depend how much of those values, which I think almost all players covet, are tied to scale.For some not at all and for others it seems to be everything.

How authentic must our science fiction game be? It must be 100% correct to the specifications, otherwise it wouldn't be real.

I'm not thrilled over the shift to 1/350 or so for the huge ships. I think FFG should have kept them the same scale as the fighters and increased the playing field size for Epic play. But I'm going to get a Transport and a Tantive IV anyways, because they will add fun to the game play, and the scale shift was minor enough that my curiosity got the best of me. But if the sliding scale does continue to slide? I'm out. The fighters aren't getting any smaller with each scale slide, so the baseline comparison will only become more drastic as bigger ships are squeezed down to fit in the game. Personally, I say keep to ship models that can fit on the playing field without having to be shrunk any more than already has happened. I'll never purchase an ISD that is a ship model, as there is just no way to keep it in the spirit of the game. There are other methods to introduce the concept of an ISD into the game without making such sacrifices. It will be interesting to see what FFG's take on this is. I can't see them destroying the integrity of their game after working so hard on each new ship that is added to preserve balance, playability and fluff.

That ultimately would depend how much of those values, which I think almost all players covet, are tied to scale.For some not at all and for others it seems to be everything.

How authentic must our science fiction game be? It must be 100% correct to the specifications, otherwise it wouldn't be real.

The detail and scale was what got me hooked on the game to start with. So, yeah, I'm holding FFG hostage over these concepts.

General Tagge in New hope, at the round table discussion where Vader chokes Admiral Motti states the Rebel alliance is better equipped, with Motti stating "For your Star Fleet, not this battlestation."

Return of the Jedi we see a pair of A-Wings crippling the shields of a super ISD with a stray A-Wing slamming into the bridge and killing it. An attack of protons would have got the same effect if he wasn't already done for.

A pair of X-Wings also takes down an ISD's shield tower emitter. That's where the only other black man in the movies bites it " She's gonna blow!" and then dies.

Y-Wings were exceptionally dangerous fighters against capital ships. B-Wings even more so. 1 B-Wing was a danger while a pair with fighter escort could cripple or destroy capital ships. That's what they were designed to do.

The Rebels rarely committed to prolonged conflicts and preferred guerilla attacks with certain objectives, but they had the capability to severly hamper Imperial operations.

Fighters also happened to destroy the Death Star, so I imagine they've found a way to be very effective against regular ships of the line.

The forward shields on the SSD were down due to bombardment from Mon Cal capital ships. Their only remaining defense was to "intensify forward batteries" which were probably turbolasers. The odds of a stray A-Wing being plucked out by a capital ship weapon are approximately 3,720 to 1.

It technically wasn't even the A-Wing that destroyed it, either. The A-Wing destroyed only the command bridge, while the SSD's shields were down; it was the SSD veering into the Death Star that destroyed it.

Well, now that we can see how FFG is implementing the CR-90, I am pretty sure that we won't see an ISD. It wouldn't fit with the system they are using without making the ISD ridiculously underpowered.

I'm not thrilled over the shift to 1/350 or so for the huge ships. I think FFG should have kept them the same scale as the fighters and increased the playing field size for Epic play. But I'm going to get a Transport and a Tantive IV anyways, because they will add fun to the game play, and the scale shift was minor enough that my curiosity got the best of me. But if the sliding scale does continue to slide? I'm out. The fighters aren't getting any smaller with each scale slide, so the baseline comparison will only become more drastic as bigger ships are squeezed down to fit in the game. Personally, I say keep to ship models that can fit on the playing field without having to be shrunk any more than already has happened. I'll never purchase an ISD that is a ship model, as there is just no way to keep it in the spirit of the game. There are other methods to introduce the concept of an ISD into the game without making such sacrifices. It will be interesting to see what FFG's take on this is. I can't see them destroying the integrity of their game after working so hard on each new ship that is added to preserve balance, playability and fluff.

That ultimately would depend how much of those values, which I think almost all players covet, are tied to scale.For some not at all and for others it seems to be everything.

How authentic must our science fiction game be? It must be 100% correct to the specifications, otherwise it wouldn't be real.

The detail and scale was what got me hooked on the game to start with. So, yeah, I'm holding FFG hostage over these concepts.

Come over to my place, man. We'll use 1:270 big ships.

Well, now that we can see how FFG is implementing the CR-90, I am pretty sure that we won't see an ISD. It wouldn't fit with the system they are using without making the ISD ridiculously underpowered.

With the possibility of increasing the play area more likely (check the thread on the the CR90), upping the points, and the surprising firepower of the CR90 I was inclined to say the opposite.

But before getting sidetracked I think one of the issue of including an imperial equivalent to the transport is the fact that the Empire used a very uniform assortment of ships which all tended to be bigger, better armed and armored than their rebel equivalents. With the big ships coming out you can tell they are picking iconic ships from the films that will be instantly recognizable, more than likely because FFG knows these will probably be rare purchases so incentive needs to be included in the design itself, whether through the rules or aesthetics.

Now for the life of me, I can't think of another Imperial capital ship that was in the original trilogy other than ISD and up. I guess they could include the Nebulon B for both factions, or they could go Clone Wars and include the Acclimator. Does anyone recollect an Imperial capital ship smaller than the ISD making an appearance in the original trilogy?