What we are using comes pretty close but it's not perfect. It's just an example to never say never.

What you're using is basically a set piece, a very, very expensive set piece if FFG were to produce it, one that is grossly out of scale with the rest of the game.

Which once again isn't even needed, there's plenty of other ships out there that can fit quite nicely.

For the ISD the right feel to me is that it should be hard to impossible to kill (beyond ramming a corvette into it) and be able to kill just about any other smaller capital ship in 2-3 rounds, maybe even longer because every corvette in the battle of Endor didn't just spontaneously explode. What we are using comes pretty close but it's not perfect. It's just an example to never say never.

Or an A-Wing

What we are using comes pretty close but it's not perfect. It's just an example to never say never.

What you're using is basically a set piece, a very, very expensive set piece if FFG were to produce it, one that is grossly out of scale with the rest of the game.

Which once again isn't even needed, there's plenty of other ships out there that can fit quite nicely.

I believe the real issue I may be contesting with you is what is needed in this game. The fact that people are disagreeing with you and want an ISD should be proof that an ISD is warranted, and in a consumer driven game that is really all that is necessary for something to be considered "needed." The rules I came up with are rough and I understand your disapproval with them, but hopefully someone took a look at them and it piqued their interest. If that happens then they I was successful.

Using the rules I put forth as a standard for FFG isn't really fair to them because no one has any idea what they plan to do with a ISD or if they even release one. I'm sure the experienced gamed designers at FFG could come out with something far better than what I can come up with after a few test runs since they know the inner working of their game better than anyone. Once again just surprised at the resistance against including probably the most iconic ship of the universe in the game when people are just throwing out ideas. I threw out my ideas because I believe it shows its possible, and while not perfect, stifling the conversation or people's attempts at creating and ISD will make sure it never happens is to never attempt it. Maybe someone someday will find the magic rule set. No one really knows but at the very least it is possible.

I guess I'm with VanorDM on this one, I think if you are gonna put a severely undersized ISD on the table, you may as well put 5 of them... they always travel in packs. It is just ridiculous to put one on the table, it would slaughter all other vessels of capital size and the small ships couldn't even touch it.

I understand this is a game and it's all for fun, but some things should just not be made for it. Period.

I'm sure if FFG made an Attack wing style game it would be awesome, and that is where the capital ships should be. Use that as the big fight and use X-wing as the small scale, run em side by side.. but keep some sense of scale and playability and balance with this game. An ISD would be severely unbalanced in X-wing. You'd need 10 corvettes, maybe, to take it out...

I understand that many of the ships we now have aren't exactly 100% what they probably should be, but the game is well balanced and playable. Even adding in the new corvette and transport may not be too unbalanced, but that is still unknown as of now.

The fact that people are disagreeing with you and want an ISD should be proof that an ISD is warranted, and in a consumer driven game that is really all that is necessary for something to be considered "needed."

If people want a Flying Winnebago, a Colonial Viper, a Tardis and a space dragon, does that mean that FFG should include them in the game?

A ISD broken as badly as needed to make it fit in this game is really no different then those things. It breaks the lore as much as a Tardis would.

I'm not against putting Imperial cap ships in the game by any means. I'm just against breaking something as cool as a ISD so people can have a ISD looking Corvette... I mean honestly what's wrong with using one of the CR-90 sized ships? Why should FFG destroy the ISD when there's other good options already.

For the ISD the right feel to me is that it should be hard to impossible to kill (beyond ramming a corvette into it) and be able to kill just about any other smaller capital ship in 2-3 rounds, maybe even longer because every corvette in the battle of Endor didn't just spontaneously explode. What we are using comes pretty close but it's not perfect. It's just an example to never say never.

Someone didn't play much X-Wing back in the day. ISDs were pretty vulnerable to well coordinated fighter attacks. That's why they carried so many TIEs for protection, a few well-placed shots to the shield generators followed up by some more ordanance to the bridge was VERY devestating to the ISD.

Hell once the sheilds were down B-Wing/Y-Wing ion cannon spam could take them offline.

The ISD isn't this all powerful juggernaught you seem to think it is. It was made to take down other capital ships, not fighters

Someone didn't play much X-Wing back in the day.

X-Wing isn't canon and what you did in the video game was never considered to be actually possible. A few fighters can not take out a ISD. It is quite simply impossible outside of the video games.

Those domes for example, are not actually shield generators, they're sensors. Destroying them doesn't drop the ISD's shields.

The Empire is pretty silly but to design a ship the size and cost of a ISD with that many people on it, that could be destroyed by a flight of X-Wings????

Someone didn't play much X-Wing back in the day.

X-Wing isn't canon and what you did in the video game was never considered to be actually possible. A few fighters can not take out a ISD. It is quite simply impossible outside of the video games.

Those domes for example, are not actually shield generators, they're sensors. Destroying them doesn't drop the ISD's shields.

The Empire is pretty silly but to design a ship the size and cost of a ISD with that many people on it, that could be destroyed by a flight of X-Wings????

The X-Wing games are about a much cannon as anything else in the EU.

Didn't a lone A-Wing suicide smash into a SD's bridge in the movies? Hmmm that sure seems like a catasrophic blow by a lone fighter.

Truth is, in the trilogy, we never saw a Fighter Strike VS ISD scenario, yet all the games and EU seem to tell us they are effective.....interesting.

Someone didn't play much X-Wing back in the day.

X-Wing isn't canon and what you did in the video game was never considered to be actually possible. A few fighters can not take out a ISD. It is quite simply impossible outside of the video games.

Those domes for example, are not actually shield generators, they're sensors. Destroying them doesn't drop the ISD's shields.

The Empire is pretty silly but to design a ship the size and cost of a ISD with that many people on it, that could be destroyed by a flight of X-Wings????

The Empire is pretty silly to desgin a battlestation the size and cost of a Death Star, with that many people on it, that coudl be destroyed by a flight of X-Wings/Y-Wings

For the ISD the right feel to me is that it should be hard to impossible to kill (beyond ramming a corvette into it) and be able to kill just about any other smaller capital ship in 2-3 rounds, maybe even longer because every corvette in the battle of Endor didn't just spontaneously explode. What we are using comes pretty close but it's not perfect. It's just an example to never say never.

Or an A-Wing

One particular A-Wing. That ability could make that particular pilot useful.

The X-Wing games are about a much cannon as anything else in the EU.

No they're not, and never have been. Video games are always the lowest form of canon in the EU.

Didn't a lone A-Wing suicide smash into a SD's bridge in the movies?

Yes, but if you think that was the only thing it took to destroy a SSD... Well I have a bridge to sell you.

yet all the games and EU seem to tell us they are effective.....interesting.

Give us one example of a fighter or even a squad of fighters killing a ISD from novels. Again, the games don't count because they're the lowest form of canon.

The fact that people are disagreeing with you and want an ISD should be proof that an ISD is warranted, and in a consumer driven game that is really all that is necessary for something to be considered "needed."

If people want a Flying Winnebago, a Colonial Viper, a Tardis and a space dragon, does that mean that FFG should include them in the game?

A ISD broken as badly as needed to make it fit in this game is really no different then those things. It breaks the lore as much as a Tardis would.

I'm not against putting Imperial cap ships in the game by any means. I'm just against breaking something as cool as a ISD so people can have a ISD looking Corvette... I mean honestly what's wrong with using one of the CR-90 sized ships? Why should FFG destroy the ISD when there's other good options already.

That's probably where the misunderstanding seems to be. I'm not a fan of a corvette sized ISD I find one that isn't to scale but significantly larger than a corvette acceptable. That would depend on your definition of significant size difference. I get the idea that the ISD was a powerful ship but to me it isn't all powerful. The Rebels which were basically a rag tag organization could fight them with converted pleasure liners (Mon Cals) and old Clone Wars tech (Bulwak cruisers). As stated before they routinely fell victim to small ship attacks, and even some video games they could fall prey to 6 corvettes (Empire at War). The idea is to find the right balance and I believe that is possible. Even in the battle of Endor a ISD was destroyed by a corvette ramming it. I didn't think they could really add the corvette and the transport but with what I've seen before they pulled it off. The idea of Tardis or Winnebago isn't in the same league as adding an iconic ship from Star Wars that almost everyone knows and loves. My original point is that it could work.

Someone didn't play much X-Wing back in the day.

X-Wing isn't canon and what you did in the video game was never considered to be actually possible. A few fighters can not take out a ISD. It is quite simply impossible outside of the video games.

Those domes for example, are not actually shield generators, they're sensors. Destroying them doesn't drop the ISD's shields.

The Empire is pretty silly but to design a ship the size and cost of a ISD with that many people on it, that could be destroyed by a flight of X-Wings????

Actually in most of the schematic and data (like incredible cross sections) they contain at least the bridge shields as well as the sensors. Also keep in mind X-Wing games is the closest the actual data when comes to shield strength hull strength, and maneuverability. Not really fair to look at one aspect as cannon but not the other. Also in the literature several ships, including Rogue Squadron X-Wings, have destroyed ISD's quite easily like Guri's Stinger and Boba Fett in Slave 1. Another perspective is that the concussion missiles launchers on a Victory class could drop the shields of some very powerful ships (like an ISD or Mon Cal) in one salvo.

Just to kind of illustrate this even further, the same Empire which you believe wouldn't build a ship like an ISD to be able to be destroyed by a squad of X-Wings, built a battle station containing millions destroyed by one X-Wing. The ISD carries fighters for a reason and that's because rebel starfighters were an actual threat to them.

I guess I'm also illustrating that I'm a Star Wars super nerd.

The X-Wing games are about a much cannon as anything else in the EU.

No they're not, and never have been. Video games are always the lowest form of canon in the EU.

Didn't a lone A-Wing suicide smash into a SD's bridge in the movies?

Yes, but if you think that was the only thing it took to destroy a SSD... Well I have a bridge to sell you.

yet all the games and EU seem to tell us they are effective.....interesting.

Give us one example of a fighter or even a squad of fighters killing a ISD from novels. Again, the games don't count because they're the lowest form of canon.

You didn't read the X-Wing books did you? :/

Here...just, just read:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bacta_War

I'll even highlight the specific part for you:

"The Corruptor was destroyed by having a single X-Wing fighter (Wedge's, Tycho's, Corran's) pass missile telemetry to the other two squadrons, whose torpedoes and missiles were thus coordinated into a deadly, shield-overwhelming barrage. "

The Corruptor was an ISD II

I'm not a fan of a corvette sized ISD I find one that isn't to scale but significantly larger than a corvette acceptable.

Even if you made it twice the size of the CR-90 it's still massively out of scale. A ISD is 10 times the size of a CR-90, so even at twice the size, you're still talking about a massive reduction.

Considering the debates on if A-Wings are to proper scale or not, such a massive reduction of scale would not sit well with most people here. Not for the price tag that FFG would put on it.

The ISD carries fighters for a reason and that's because rebel starfighters were an actual threat to them.

Yes, because a ISD has so little chance of killing the fighters. So in theory, if you gave them a week to constantly fire on the ISD they might be able to kill it.

It also carried them because ISD's are like a modern day Aircraft carrier, they're an extension of force and expected to be able to carry out a number of missions.

Calling the rubuttal now:

"Well, the X-Wing books and Comic Books are just as much not cannon as the video games!!!"

Gentlemen, place your bets!

"The Corruptor was destroyed by having a single X-Wing fighter (Wedge's, Tycho's, Corran's) pass missile telemetry to the other two squadrons, whose torpedoes and missiles were thus coordinated into a deadly, shield-overwhelming barrage. "

So what 2 full squads worth of Torpedoes somehow is the same as a flight of ships? I've said for some time now that if you were to turn this game into a higher scale game, with Squads of ships, rather then single fighters. Then a ISD might actually work.

But that's not how the game currently works.

"Well, the X-Wing books and Comic Books are just as much not cannon as the video games!!!"

Nice, so now you feel the need to make it personal?

The books are the 3rd highest form canon, with movies and TV show being higher. Comic's are between novels and video games.

So if it happens in a novel I'm happy to accept it as being canon.

But hey what do I know... Go ahead and destroy the whole SW universe so people can have their wedge shaped ship in the game, even if it means breaking the game in the process. If it's that bloody vital you have a ISD, I won't stand in anyone's away again.

General Tagge in New hope, at the round table discussion where Vader chokes Admiral Motti states the Rebel alliance is better equipped, with Motti stating "For your Star Fleet, not this battlestation."

Return of the Jedi we see a pair of A-Wings crippling the shields of a super ISD with a stray A-Wing slamming into the bridge and killing it. An attack of protons would have got the same effect if he wasn't already done for.

A pair of X-Wings also takes down an ISD's shield tower emitter. That's where the only other black man in the movies bites it " She's gonna blow!" and then dies.

Y-Wings were exceptionally dangerous fighters against capital ships. B-Wings even more so. 1 B-Wing was a danger while a pair with fighter escort could cripple or destroy capital ships. That's what they were designed to do.

The Rebels rarely committed to prolonged conflicts and preferred guerilla attacks with certain objectives, but they had the capability to severly hamper Imperial operations.

Fighters also happened to destroy the Death Star, so I imagine they've found a way to be very effective against regular ships of the line.

I'm not a fan of a corvette sized ISD I find one that isn't to scale but significantly larger than a corvette acceptable.

Even if you made it twice the size of the CR-90 it's still massively out of scale. A ISD is 10 times the size of a CR-90, so even at twice the size, you're still talking about a massive reduction.

Considering the debates on if A-Wings are to proper scale or not, such a massive reduction of scale would not sit well with most people here. Not for the price tag that FFG would put on it.

The good thing about forums is that they represent a MINORITY of the player base. Even if half the players who are the vocal minority on here kick and scream, they will be outnumbered by those who would love the addition.

"Well, the X-Wing books and Comic Books are just as much not cannon as the video games!!!"

Nice, so now you feel the need to make it personal?

The books are the 3rd highest form canon, with movies and TV show being higher. Comic's are between novels and video games.

So if it happens in a novel I'm happy to accept it as being canon.

But hey what do I know... Go ahead and destroy the whole SW universe so people can have their wedge shaped ship in the game, even if it means breaking the game in the process. If it's that bloody vital you have a ISD, I won't stand in anyone's away again.

Yup because you asked us to provide you ONE example, I did, and you still are upset/in denial.

Give us one example of a fighter or even a squad of fighters killing a ISD from novels. Again, the games don't count because they're the lowest form of canon.

So we have an example of two Squads coordinating efforts that culminated in the destruction of a ISD II, this was in the novels. As you requested the source was not from a video game.

Accept it, ISD's aren't invicible juggernaughts like you think they are. They are tough against other capital ships, but have their weaknesses.

Now, I don't want ISD's in the minis game either, but I just want to make sure the record is straight on exactly what their power is.

I'm not a fan of a corvette sized ISD I find one that isn't to scale but significantly larger than a corvette acceptable.

Even if you made it twice the size of the CR-90 it's still massively out of scale. A ISD is 10 times the size of a CR-90, so even at twice the size, you're still talking about a massive reduction.

Considering the debates on if A-Wings are to proper scale or not, such a massive reduction of scale would not sit well with most people here. Not for the price tag that FFG would put on it.

The good thing about forums is that they represent a MINORITY of the player base. Even if half the players who are the vocal minority on here kick and scream, they will be outnumbered by those who would love the addition.

And I love the A-Wing.

"The Corruptor was destroyed by having a single X-Wing fighter (Wedge's, Tycho's, Corran's) pass missile telemetry to the other two squadrons, whose torpedoes and missiles were thus coordinated into a deadly, shield-overwhelming barrage. "

So what 2 full squads worth of Torpedoes somehow is the same as a flight of ships? I've said for some time now that if you were to turn this game into a higher scale game, with Squads of ships, rather then single fighters. Then a ISD might actually work.

But that's not how the game currently works.

So far its really only in this game where Rebel ships don't carry ordnance. In most cannon they do and they use them routinely to mess up the capital ships. How game developers decide to translate the vulnerability large ships had to fighters will be interesting to see since they have made torpedoes and missiles of limited use.

I'm hoping FFG will make several game mats depicting portions of ISD's and include game pieces that are the bits of the section that have tactical advantage. There's no doubt having a rebel squad dealing with ties and trying to overcome Sheilds and other defenses to cripple an ISD has merit. The point is, just not a a mini that maneuvers around the playing field. It IS the playing field. I'm sure the could come up with several Epic scenarios with such a play set. Youcod still use the energy rules and have different damage decks for different bits represented on the board. I'd buy into that.

So we have an example of two Squads coordinating efforts that culminated in the destruction of a ISD II, this was in the novels. As you requested the source was not from a video game.

And I'll freely accept that as a canon example of where 2+ Squads of fighters killed a ISD. Which is not what I actually asked, I asked for example of where a flight (3-4 ships) or even squad killed one. But I'll accept the example provided.

But unless we change the scale of the game, so a single ship = squad. Or increase the point value to a point where we can field 24-27 X-Wings with Torpedos... 12 X-Wings with torpedoes come out to be 336 points, so that example would mean around 700 points of X-Wings. Which if you go back to page 3 or 4, fits in with what I said about a ISD working if you had it cost around 750 points.

Accept it, ISD's aren't invicible juggernaughts like you think they are. They are tough against other capital ships, but have their weaknesses.

Of course they do, against enough massed firepower, they are vulnerable. But the amount of firepower is simply too great to work in this game, which is based on 4-8 fighters, not capital ship engagements.

Even with Epic rules, unless we see a massive change in how the game works, there still isn't room for the amount of firepower needed to make a ISD balanced. On top of that you have to reduce the scale to the point of being obscene to make it fit on the table.

So is, 2+ squads or 3-5 CR-90's a threat to a ISD, yes of course. 3-4 Fighters or 1 CR-90 however isn't.

My issue isn't that the ISD is impossible to kill, my issue is that people think they can somehow fit the ISD in this game and keep it balanced for even a 250-300 point game.

I'm hoping FFG will make several game mats depicting portions of ISD's and include game pieces that are the bits of the section that have tactical advantage. There's no doubt having a rebel squad dealing with ties and trying to overcome Sheilds and other defenses to cripple an ISD has merit. The point is, just not a a mini that maneuvers around the playing field. It IS the playing field. I'm sure the could come up with several Epic scenarios with such a play set. Youcod still use the energy rules and have different damage decks for different bits represented on the board. I'd buy into that.

Exactly what I was trying to stress. There are different ways to represent an ISD. I was just trying to point out that some people want a model and maybe we shouldn't cry foul about something having the possibility of being released.