Hello everybody.

Last night, happens to us an unusual (for us) situation.

A player happens to receive 2 damage card from 2 crit. It happens to be 2 copies of "blinded pilot".

As you know, the blinded pilot text states: "the next time you attack, do not roll any attack dice. Then flip this card facedown".

We ask each other how handle this. The player (of course) hopes that the next attack he may flip both cards. The opponent (of course) hopes for 1 cards each attack.

I search in the FAQ, and there's nothing. The most near answer is:

Q: Can a ship perform the same Upgrade card

The way I interpret it is, you are allowed to flip both cards face down when you fulfill the condition stated on both cards, which is an attack.

So, you attack once, and flip both cards, as both conditions are met.

I would also said that one attack flips both, since the act of attacking meets the requeriment for both cards simultaneously.

Also, regarding your 'meaning' observation, take note that this card is a 'pilot' effect (which tend to have flash, one-shot effects) rather than a 'ship' effect (which are the ones that usually require actions [=time] to repair)

Well, could be.
So how do you handle 2 Stunned Pilot?
It says: "after you execute a maneuver that causes you to overlap either another ship or obstacle token, suffer 1 damage"?

Following this logic you got just 1 damage? I don't think so.

Same type: pilot card. My similitude for ships/pilot is time=>ship repair time=>phisical recover.

I'm confused. It Should be clearified in the faq.

Very good question.

I am leaning towards it only having an effect once and I'm using the only other condition of where I remember multiples of the same thing stacking and there being a ruling that it reduces to only one bonus.

When firing through more than one asteroid, the defender still only gets one extra defence dice. I know its not a damage card example but it is the only instance I can remember at the moment where something similar occurs in the game and how it was FAQ'd.

But I really am not sure how to resolve this duplication of cards.

Good stumper.

For starters, if I were you, I'd shuffle again the damage deck.

Then, I admit that the question is more complex than it seems at first glance.

In the case of lingering effects, their wording usually make redundant the second copy. However, if it is an immediate effect that you can resolve as soon as the card is dealt, then, the same effect could potentially be caused again by another copy of the card.

Since you must resolve damage cards one by one, a careful reading of the card's text should tell us if its effects are redundant with respect to the first card, or if its effects allow room to be applied twice.

In the case of Stunned pilot, since its a lingering effect, I'd say that 2 copies on the same ship don't have cumulative effects, and thus, only one damage is caused when the ship overlaps.

However, and as a disclaimer, you have a point in that there's nothing in the rules to back up officially this interpretation.

Consider each critical damage card separately.

Blinded Pilot - Each card states to flip it over after your next attack (with 0 dice). Thus when you do make that attack, each triggers separately and each flips over.

Stunned Pilot - Each one triggers separately and you end up with 2 damage. The first copy gives you 1 damage and the second copy gives you 1 damage. There's really no reason to believe that you'd ignore the second copy just because the first copy happens to do the same thing.

^ this

There is no change from the previous example, as one condition is met, which triggers the effect of both cards, the condition being an overlap.

So, you overlap with 2x Stunned Pilot = take 2 damage.

I can't really oppose the above argument, other than saying that my RAI sense is tingling furiously.

As a measure of precaution, you should follow dbmeboy interpretation, until the FAQ lights up this question.

First of all thanks to all.
As I said, the question was confusing, at least.

I like the dbmeboy interpretation, and all of your contribute, and I'll follow that.
I hope that someone in FFG read the forum and maybe come clear in the "future faq" on this "not obvious" issue, because I'm understand and I'm agree with this interpretation but this made this crit damage card useless and, AFAIK it is a unique case. In all the other cases, crit damage are "bad news". This one, if you have already one copy (well, in damage deck are 2...) it's a "critical no effect" card that tingle my sense too.

thx again!

There are other instances where critical damage is useless and even some corner cases where it's helpful. If you want a flavor reason for the 2nd blinded pilot being useless - he was blinded by the bright flash with the first hit and as he's already temporarily blind the second bright flash does nothing.

Flavor reasons for why being double stunned leads to double damage is harder, I'll leave it to somebody with more narrative flair.

Well, could be.

So how do you handle 2 Stunned Pilot?

It says: "after you execute a maneuver that causes you to overlap either another ship or obstacle token, suffer 1 damage"?

Following this logic you got just 1 damage? I don't think so.

Same type: pilot card. My similitude for ships/pilot is time=>ship repair time=>phisical recover.

I'm confused. It Should be clearified in the faq.

FAQ couldn't hurt. I'm with the collective here, because regardless of how they intended it, you're kind of crossing your own logic up here. The way you're interpreting blinded pilot and stunned pilot are actually reversed. I think you were misinterpreting the reason the consensus seems to be that you would flip both cards.

It's not that they combine for a single effect, it's that both effects would merely happen simultaneously, and get resolved in whichever order you choose. You make an attack, the text on both cards triggers, and you resolve them in whatever order you want - but at least according to the letter of the law, without something specifically preventing them both from taking effect, they both do take effect. You attack, card A gets flipped, then card B gets flipped, because both are tied to the same trigger effect.

With the stunned pilot example, I think you would take 2 damage in that instance, for exactly the same reason. You hit another ship or obstacle, both 'take 1 damage' effects trigger, and are resolved simultaneously, in the order of your choice, dealing out two damage.

Unless they flat out counter that in an FAQ that seems to be the way it's written.

Gonna agree with everyone else here.

Seems the only reasonable way to do it, is to treat each crit as a separate entity, and resolve them as such. So both blinded pilot cards flip over because both have their conditions resolved. Stunned pilot causes 2 damage.

I don't think we need an FAQ entry on this, because it's already there - the FAQ actually does address both of these questions already. Re-quoting from the OP:

Ships "have" damage cards on them in the same way they have upgrades. Face up damage cards effectively add new abilities to the ship - usually unhelpful ones, but abilities just the same.

Great point, a face up damage card is per the rules the same thing as a upgrade card like R2 Astromech. It's an effect that applies in some or all situations. Also like a upgrade card you do what ever the card tells you to, including in some cases discarding it or in the case of face up cards turning them over.

I guess it's somewhat natural to think of them as being separate from upgrades because they aren't part of the list building system, and in general they are 'do not want!'.

For Blinded Pilot, the first one makes you roll no dice, and turns face down. Then the second one makes REALLY sure you're rolling no dice, and it too turns face down.

Fair enough (and thanks to you too!).

Very good question.

I am leaning towards it only having an effect once and I'm using the only other condition of where I remember multiples of the same thing stacking and there being a ruling that it reduces to only one bonus.

When firing through more than one asteroid, the defender still only gets one extra defence dice. I know its not a damage card example but it is the only instance I can remember at the moment where something similar occurs in the game and how it was FAQ'd.

But I really am not sure how to resolve this duplication of cards.

Good stumper.

Where does it say that you only get 1 die when shooting through multiple obstacles?? I couldn't find it in the faq

First page.

If your range ruler crosses an obstacle the attack is considered Obstructed. The rule makes no mention of more then one obstacle, it's a true/false condition.

it also fits in with the FAQ about crossing over more then one obstacle only causing one damage.

To be fair... That covers maneuvers not shooting. I think between that and the fact that the rules for shooting though a obstacle reads as true/false makes it clear how it works.

But someone could skip over that FAQ entry because it's not about shooting.

It is about moving and not shooting, but it does seem to imply a precedent on how obstacles and damage work, in the absence of some compelling reason that crashing through them would work differently than shooting through them.

After a ship moves through or overlaps

more than one obstacle, does the owner roll

an attack die for each of these obstacles?

A: No. He rolls only one attack die regardless of the

number of obstacle tokens his ship moves through

or overlaps.

Has NOTHING to do with shooting but nice try.

First page.If your range ruler crosses an obstacle the attack is considered Obstructed. The rule makes no mention of more then one obstacle, it's a true/false condition.it also fits in with the FAQ about crossing over more then one obstacle only causing one damage.

Didn't look at it as true/false. But makes sense. Thanks

I never SAID it was about shooting, someone made reference to that entry, as did Vanor, so I was providing the relevant bit of text. No reason to snark at me.

I never SAID it was about shooting, someone made reference to that entry, as did Vanor, so I was providing the relevant bit of text. No reason to snark at me.

Relax, I'm snarky with everyone. It gets me in trouble a lot actually

Well, could be.

So how do you handle 2 Stunned Pilot?

It says: "after you execute a maneuver that causes you to overlap either another ship or obstacle token, suffer 1 damage"?

Following this logic you got just 1 damage? I don't think so.

Same type: pilot card. My similitude for ships/pilot is time=>ship repair time=>phisical recover.

I'm confused. It Should be clearified in the faq.

It depends on what the critical damage card is. Two stunned pilot cards would cause two damage as both are activated by the suffer 1 damage. While two blinded pilot cards would resolve the next time you attack.