I have a player, he's an Outlaw Tech. He has scavenged garbage piles and destroyed droids for parts. He now wants to make a "Chainsaw Sword". This is a discussion we are having between sessions.

There are no rules I remember for making an entirely new weapon from scratch. Always one to say "yes, but..." to players, I said it would be a 3 Difficulty Mechanics check, would take 4-5 hours, and the finished product would be:

+2 Damage

Crit 4 Advantage

Sunder, Pierce 1 (he requested Sunder and Pierce 2)

Inferior Weapon

Totally breaks on a Despair.

I said all weapons he makes on his own will have the Inferior Quality (generate 1 Threat automatically and -1 damage). If he gets better material to work with perhaps he could make a better weapon than the above though, BUT if he makes 2 or 3 more weapons, then he unlocks:

WEAPON ARTISAN (custom skill, Intellect based) with 1 Rank already, and it's a career skill. Any weapons he makes with this new skill are not Inferior, and he can also use the skill to shop for parts instead of scavenge, and Triumphs or excessive Advantage make the created weapons Superior.

What do you guys think? He was actually quite disappointed. He wanted to use Mechanics and have the damage of the created weapon be based on how successful his roll was, possibly making something to rival a Vibrosaw (+4 Damage) with good scrap. And he didn't want the Inferior Quality.

Is he too power hungry, or am I being a stingy GM? How would you have handled this question?

Would making him roll for each weapon quality (sunder, pierce, etc) that he wants to add be feasible?

Or even to make him roll for every aspect of the weapon (damage, crit)?

I'd say every two advantage lets him add a quality to the weapon.

I would argue that the inferior quality should stay.

Anyone can pound metal into a flat rod and scrape an edge away, turning it into a crude sword. If you have an idea what you're doing, you can make it better. It takes a true master to forge a proper sword with optimized balance, folded properly and a well honed edge. The characters in this game are better than the peons that "anyone" falls into; but they're also far from masters.

He's trying to forge a custom weapon never before used/seen... he's no master at it.

Another point to use could be that, so he's a mechanic (outlaw tech even) building a machine of sorts to be used for causing damage - very realistic. However, he's still no weapons master; Not all blacksmiths can forge a sword, not all mechanics can fix a lamborghini.

Anyway, all that to say I feel like the Inferior quality is highly justified.

All the other suggestions thusfar for qualities and upgrades are good ideas too - take what would best suit your narrative

To follow up on what Trinity said, that means for your Tech to build a "master quality" item, you'd want it to be a daunting check, so for him to for sure succeed, he'd want to be YYYY or higher. On customizatoin mods, the dificulty increases for each mod installed, so maybe the difficulty of the weapon qualities increases for each quality installed on the weapon.

On the other hand, completely improvised weapons go up to +4, but without all the fancy bonuses. I can't really see why his junkyard chainsaw sword needs sunder though.

I agree with Trinity351 about Inferior quality being something you should stand firm on to start with.

You could limit him to having as many working prototype weapons at any one time equal to Ranks in Inventor Talent. This would represent that he has to constantly tinker with them to keep them functional hence the active limit on quantity. Then give him the option that instead of having another prototype, he can use one of his Rank allotments towards removing the Inferior quality instead. Therefore the choice to have more custom toys of questionable quality OR fewer custom toys of better quality.

Giving players the means to have their shiny but with consequences is most often the best route.

Also, Vicious seems far more relevant to a chainsaw sword than Sunder. It would be more likely to deliver horrific injury to people than actually break equipment. This isn't Warhammer 40K after all.

Quick and dirty system:

1. All items have the Inferior Quality unless the player spends a Triumph.
2. For Melee/Brawl weapons, damage sets the difficulty:
   1. +0 DMG, 1 diff
   2. +1 DMG, 2 diff
   3. +2 DMG, 3 diff
   4. +3 DMG, 4 diff
   5. +4 DMG, 5 diff
3. For ranged weapons, damage set the difficulty:
   1. 5 DMG, 1 diff
   2. 6 DMG, 2 diff
   3. 7 DMG, 3 diff
   4. 8 DMG, 4 diff
   5. 9 DMG, 5 diff
4. Every two Advantages spent adds one positive quality.
   1. Each quality can be purchased once unless it's known for being ranked, like Pierce.
   2. There's an additional "+1 Damage" quality that can be purchased once.
5. Every two Threats spent adds one negative quality.
   1. Each quality can be purchased once unless it's known for being ranked, like Slow To Fire.
   2. There's an additional "-1 Damage" quality that can be purchased once.

That should cover anything your player wants to do.

Don't worry about a new skill; every player can attempt every skill anyway. Limiting player actions are the purview of talents, though if you're up for it, you could create a Crafter spec.

On a different tangent, is a chainsaw sword really appropriate for the setting? It's up to the group as a whole, of course, but it seems a little too brutal for Star Wars.

I agree with Trinity351 about Inferior quality being something you should stand firm on to start with.

You could limit him to having as many working prototype weapons at any one time equal to Ranks in Inventor Talent. This would represent that he has to constantly tinker with them to keep them functional hence the active limit on quantity. Then give him the option that instead of having another prototype, he can use one of his Rank allotments towards removing the Inferior quality instead. Therefore the choice to have more custom toys of questionable quality OR fewer custom toys of better quality.

Giving players the means to have their shiny but with consequences is most often the best route.

Also, Vicious seems far more relevant to a chainsaw sword than Sunder. It would be more likely to deliver horrific injury to people than actually break equipment. This isn't Warhammer 40K after all.

He actually mentioned Warhammer 40k and wanting it to destroy weapons like the chainsaw swords in that game so the Sunder Quality is his idea. I agree it's a stretch.

Quick and dirty system:

1. All items have the Inferior Quality unless the player spends a Triumph.
2. For Melee/Brawl weapons, damage sets the difficulty:
   1. +0 DMG, 1 diff
   2. +1 DMG, 2 diff
   3. +2 DMG, 3 diff
   4. +3 DMG, 4 diff
   5. +4 DMG, 5 diff
3. For ranged weapons, damage set the difficulty:
   1. 5 DMG, 1 diff
   2. 6 DMG, 2 diff
   3. 7 DMG, 3 diff
   4. 8 DMG, 4 diff
   5. 9 DMG, 5 diff
4. Every two Advantages spent adds one positive quality.
   1. Each quality can be purchased once unless it's known for being ranked, like Pierce.
   2. There's an additional "+1 Damage" quality that can be purchased once.
5. Every two Threats spent adds one negative quality.
   1. Each quality can be purchased once unless it's known for being ranked, like Slow To Fire.
   2. There's an additional "-1 Damage" quality that can be purchased once.

That should cover anything your player wants to do.

Don't worry about a new skill; every player can attempt every skill anyway. Limiting player actions are the purview of talents, though if you're up for it, you could create a Crafter spec.

Excellent sir! I think I will use this, or a variation thereof.

There's also the Vibrosaw option in the Enter the Unknown rulebook. You have them just make that where stats are concerned, but make it be and look however they want.

BrandonCarpenter, it should probably also be mentioned in your rules that Melee/Brawl should probably be crit 3 and ranged should be crit 5 (those seem to be pretty standard numbers for weapons). Any ideas on Armor?

There's also the Vibrosaw option in the Enter the Unknown rulebook. You have them just make that where stats are concerned, but make it be and look however they want.

If something already exists that is similar then use that as the base.

If he's admittedly trying to make a Warhammer 40K weapon, you should sit him down and explain that you're not playing Warhammer 40K and that Star Wars has a whole different thematic paradigm to it than the 40K universe. Some things in one just are not appropriate in the other.

I had totally forgotten about the "chainsaw" in Enter the Unknown. CrunchyDemon is right that you should just use that as the basis. Also funny about the vibrosaw is that Despair results mean the wielder hits themself with it instead. So it's fine for going after minions unless you flip a Destiny token on him. He'd definitely have pause about using it to attack Rivals or Nemeses where ranks of Adversary are involved since that's automatic Challenge dice in the pool without you needing to flip a Destiny.

BrandonCarpenter, it should probably also be mentioned in your rules that Melee/Brawl should probably be crit 3 and ranged should be crit 5 (those seem to be pretty standard numbers for weapons). Any ideas on Armor?

Wow, yeah, totally forgot about crits. That's what I get for making that up at 1 in the morning. You could split the difference and have a crit of 4, then modify that by +/-1 per 2 Advantage/Threat. Alternately, you could have the player opt for a better/worse crit by taking on setback/boost dice.

Darn, never thought of hard points either, lol.

Armor might be tougher to do. I'd say try this as a jumping off point.

• 1 Soak, 1 diff
• 2 Soak, 2 diff
• 1 Defense, 2 diff
• 2 Defense, 3 diff

I just made Crit always start at 5 and reducing it by one costs 2 Advantage or 2 Success, like everything else.

After explaining this system to him, he immediately began asking if he could put an AI brain in a weapon and have it be a turrett he could throw down.... THIS GUY!

Anyway, I said yes, but that it would UPGRADE the Mechanics check at least once, maybe more. Despair means it turns on its creator anyway, the turrets or AI weapons would have no SOAK and 5 wounds and 5 strain. More wounds and strain can be bought with 2 Advantage or 2 Success like everything else.

This guy is the type to always push the limit and ask me for more and more power. I appreciate his creativity, he's a great Role player, but MAN the power creep!

It doesn't seem very constructive to suggest that a player should play some other game because their idea of Star Wars is different from another's. Conviction seems to be open to the idea, so it must gel all right with his game.

He (I am assuming. If you are not a male, apologies) is looking for advice how to make one that is balanced).

I just made Crit always start at 5 and reducing it by one costs 2 Advantage or 2 Success, like everything else.

After explaining this system to him, he immediately began asking if he could put an AI brain in a weapon and have it be a turrett he could throw down.... THIS GUY!

Anyway, I said yes, but that it would UPGRADE the Mechanics check at least once, maybe more. Despair means it turns on its creator anyway, the turrets or AI weapons would have no SOAK and 5 wounds and 5 strain. More wounds and strain can be bought with 2 Advantage or 2 Success like everything else.

This guy is the type to always push the limit and ask me for more and more power. I appreciate his creativity, he's a great Role player, but MAN the power creep!

There was a feature of the Saboteur prestige class in Star Wars Saga Edition that was vaugely similar to this. The feature allowed you to drop a number of pocket turrets near by that had varying degrees of effectiveness. Also that edition allowed you to "Droidify" mundane items, so this idea isn't too much of a stretch.

What you want to be weary of is giving the player "multiple actions" in a single turn. You could make the turret an NPC, but because the player is narratively in charge of it, the other players might see it as him having more than one attack and could promote ill feelings.

IIRC, D&D 4th had an option with summoned monsters that they did their own thing unless the player spent his action to command it. The creature's normal action, if it had one, was always inferior to its commanded action, but hey, it was better than nothing.

So for your turret, assuming its like a gun, its standing action could be to fire at one target within close range (two green dice). If the player takes command of it, you could have a list of things it could do, like Move (player spends a maneuver), Shoot (players spends an action, but turret benefits from Auto Fire), and Suppression (player spends a maneuver, modify the Barrage Action from AoR).

If you're worried about your player thinking up to many commands, limit the number the turret knows by giving it a computer skill (or Intellect score) and allowing one per rank.

Dealt with this type of player numerous times before. Best way I've found is to let their creativity run wild, but put a cap on how many toys they can bring to any single event.

Pegging the active limit to a type of Talent of the character's spec(s) should go a long way towards minimizing power creep. Switching out his active inventions can be akin to prepping spells in D&D.

Encumbrance isn't a real limit since players like this will find amusingly creative ways around it... droid pack mules, etc.

Also, make every invention require some key components that he just can't freely scavenge. Parts that would typically be removed from junkers to be re-sold before being committed to the trash heap. Otherwise you're just handing him free gear versus the other players in the group. It makes sense the most valuable pieces of droids/ships are removed before dumping the rest of it (e.g. in our world thieves steal catalytic converters on cars because of the value of the platinum or palladium inside and those are amongst the first things pulled from a junker before it gets thrown in a yard).

As long as all of this bling also comes with consequence then it should keep the other players from feeling shortchanged. Also, from an RP angle the more this guy gets known for inventing crazy-yet-effective gear some less savory power groups may seek to enlist his services whether willing or not. Some criminal groups might not even ask nice the first time... more of an "offer you can't refuse" approach. Perhaps even eventually gaining the notice of an Imperial weapons project lead.

tl,dr: don't just make this stuff free. there should be both story elements and financial costs involved.

Liloki, please keep your off topic ranting to 4chan. This was very constructive discussion until you started posting.

There are still a few other things to work out. Just to clarify the dice rolls:

Success: First success is item completion, what about each additional success?

Fail: Eats up the materials

Advantage: adds beneficial item effects

Threat: adds negative effects? That seems a bit harsh, but makes it so the player only makes items he knows he can make

Triumph: No Inferior Weapon quality. Anything else? What about a second triumph? Adds Superior weapon quality?

Despair: Hurt yourself, causing a critical injury? How about part of the material requirement is a toolkit, and the despair destroys your toolkit?

Maybe make 3 success = 1 advantage?

I did a few sample rolls. All items will be melee items with a Daunting check, 6 int and 5 mechanics.

Roll1: SSSS TT Tr

In this instance, the extra successes prevent a negative status (only one threat), but the triumph makes this

+4 melee weapon without inferior weapon quality.

Roll2: SSS T Tr

What could I use those extra successes on? Save material cost? Still a

+4 melee weapon without inferior weapon quality

Roll3: SS AAA

Well, now I get to add weapon qualities, but don't get the regular weapon quality. Still a

+4 weapon with Pierce1. Maybe we need something to use up single Advantages? Maybe poorer weapon qualities like accurate?

Roll4: S AA Tr

Now we're talking! Looks like this time I get something I can use for a while, a

+4 weapon Pierce 1 and no inferior weapon quality.

Now, I'll take it down to +3 to make something to a Vibroaxe.

Roll1: SSS AAA

+3 weapon with pierce 1. still have that bonus advantage and bonus successes. Also maybe defaulting to inferior weapon quality limits this a bit too much.

Roll2: SSSSS AA

Uh, ok. After these rolls maybe the best idea is for each success you can count that as one advantage. This way you get a

+3 weapon with Pierce 2 (that's almost comperable to a vibroaxe).

What about 2 successes reduces crit by 1? and one advantage reduces crit by 1. That seems fair for those, and makes handmade weapons a bit more viable. Think about someone using a board with a nail through it, sounds like it'd injure you but not hurt too much.

What do you guys think? He was actually quite disappointed.

Is he too power hungry, or am I being a stingy GM? How would you have handled this question?

Liloki, please keep your off topic ranting to 4chan. This was very constructive discussion until you started posting.

robmox, part of this discussion involves managing player expectations and power levels versus the rest of the player group. Also, the inclusion of story based elements to what would otherwise be just some dice rolls is hardly off topic.

Not everyone is here with the sole purpose to number crunch the mechanics of their game. Your version of of the discussion is not the only valid one.

On a different tangent, is a chainsaw sword really appropriate for the setting? It's up to the group as a whole, of course, but it seems a little too brutal for Star Wars.

Probably not, but then again a chainsaw really isn't an appropriate weapon at all (despite what Hollywood would have you believe). For some players, it's really just about the option to say "groovy" after reducing a foe into bloody bits of kibble.

As for the weapon in question, I'd just base the stats of those of a vibro-axe. Mechanically, it functions pretty much the same (ranks in Pierce & Vicious, has Sunder) with the only difference being the lack of Defensive that the vibro-sword has. You could drop the damage a point and up the crit rating by 1 to include Defensive if so inclined.

And I do agree that Inferior should be in place as a default, but if the player rolls a Triumph I'd allow them to spend that Triumph to remove said quality. As was once wisely said...

"Every man is occasionally blessed with luck."

- Chun, Remo Williams: The Adventure Begins

FYI, personal attacks add nothing to the discussion.

As to how to mechanically get involved into item creation I think that you should definitely require that some parts are difficult to get. You probably can't find enough good stuff in salvage to create a powered weapon that works consistently. I mean, that stuff is left as scrap because everything useful was pulled off it already. I think it's reasonable to take the chainsaw from EtU as a base for rarity and price. I'd invent some type of part(s) that he must get. Either by purchasing them like you would anything else (setting the rarity and price bit lower than the weapon itself) or maybe spending a Triumph on a Perception check at a scrap yard.

Once the parts are all located, I think the numbers laid out by Brandon are really a good start. I don't see any reason to take away the Inferior quality from a weapon with a Triumph though. I'd suggest that maybe Jury Rigged could remove the quality. That'd put a limit on how much he could trick it out in the future.