Reminds me if I ever get far enough to run this again I have got to include the revelation that there was two of those built (Malevolence) and I wonder how the Rebel Alliance would react if the Separatists in control of that offered it to them?

Probably buy a year worth of free drinks for their new Separatist buddies at the nearest Alliance friendly Catina. Seriously Malevolence would have been the Rebellion's dream come true. Disable key convoys in one shot than capture the ships that you want and blast the rest. It wasn't until long after Endor the that Alliance/New Republic had enough ships to not see a vessel with the ability to disable entire convoys or task forces in one shot as the greatest gift someone could give them.

An interesting little blurb about the treatment of politics and the Force on the show...

I can kind of see where the idea Firefly crew might be a lot like what some Rebel cells would become if the Rebel Alliance lost but really you can draw vague connections like that between most hero groups if you analyze them enough.

I mean analyze it enough and the Independence War in Firefly was much like the United States Civil War in space without the slavery issue. A similar claim could be made about the Clone Wars except in the Clone Wars a lot of the big businesses were on the side of the secessionists. By that logic Rebels will be in a similar era to that that Firefly took place in. But that doesn't mean that the two series have to tell anything close to the same story just because they have a few points in common.

Well...no, you can't draw parallels between the Clone Wars and well, any war ever. If you do, it would be an extraordinarily shallow analysis.

The fact is the Clone Wars was not a war at all. Wars have two sides fighting for two opposing purposes. The Clone War was literally fought by many people serving the same person- Palpatine/Darth Sidious. The outcome of whoever won would be the same: the destruction of the Jedi Order and Palpatine's ultimate rule over the galaxy. It was not a war, but rather a deception utilized to justify the massacre of the Jedi: either the enemy killed them in battle, or they were betrayed by their clone troops..eg also, killed in battle.

George Lucas can be a dumb sunuvabitch sometimes, but it's just genius how evil and underhanded of a plan the Clone Wars really was.

I think the millions or billions of people killed during the Clone Wars would disagree with you about it not being a war.

They'd be dead and unable to agree or disagree, whether clone, jedi

, human or some other species. And let's say for the arguments sake that dead people could have an opinion, them being dead doesn't make their opinion more valid, because it is simply an opinion, not fact... and while everyone's entitled their opinions, opinions are not facts nor proper arguments. So even if they believed they fought in a war, the fact is that they where mere puppets for Sidious' plan to galactic domination, it was a staged event where the outcome was more or less predetermined due to arrogance on the republic and jedi side, and their ignorance when it came to the continued existence of the Sith.

And Sideous' plan required that a war take place, which did. Though some material indicates that it didn't last as long as e originally planned, one novel says he moved the attack of Coruscant forward a few years because the Jedi were getting to close to piercing his true identity.

You're missing the point TarlSS is making, I believe.

Not that it really matters.

Tarisee is The Clone War wasn't a real war just because Palpatine was guiding both sides. It seems pretty simple to me. I disagree with it completely though. Palpatine was a grand master at making sure no matter what happened he would win, at least until he got cocky post Order 66. The Clone Wars was just the ultimate expression of that ability. Yes he wanted the Republic to come out on top and be transformed into the Empire but without concrete proof you aren't going to convince me that he did not have a plan B ready for use if the Seps emerged victorious. His plan B probably involved a lot of cosmetic work though..

Tarisee is The Clone War wasn't a real war just because Palpatine was guiding both sides. It seems pretty simple to me. I disagree with it completely though. Palpatine was a grand master at making sure no matter what happened he would win, at least until he got cocky post Order 66. The Clone Wars was just the ultimate expression of that ability. Yes he wanted the Republic to come out on top and be transformed into the Empire but without concrete proof you aren't going to convince me that he did not have a plan B ready for use if the Seps emerged victorious. His plan B probably involved a lot of cosmetic work though..

I could almost rationalize that Dooku was a major partner in making the subtle plans that led to the success of Palpatine. After Palpatine betrayed Dooku, his plans were far less subtle and chock full of hubris-eaten holes.

Tarisee is The Clone War wasn't a real war just because Palpatine was guiding both sides. It seems pretty simple to me. I disagree with it completely though. Palpatine was a grand master at making sure no matter what happened he would win, at least until he got cocky post Order 66. The Clone Wars was just the ultimate expression of that ability. Yes he wanted the Republic to come out on top and be transformed into the Empire but without concrete proof you aren't going to convince me that he did not have a plan B ready for use if the Seps emerged victorious. His plan B probably involved a lot of cosmetic work though..

He had his finger on the button literally to switch off all droid forces and had his new apprentice butcher the separatist leadership. Where would there be a need for a plan B?

As good at manipulation as Palpatine was he couldn't be certain every detail of the war would go according to plan, no one could. There are just too many variables for anyone to control it with absolute certainty. What he could do, what he did do, was make certain that unless a third faction rose out of nowhere and defeated bot the CIS and the Republic, which obviously did not happen, his objectives would be achieved. The Republic wins, he hits Order 66 and rules as Palpatine. The CIS wins the Jedi are wiped out, and he seizes power from Dooku, and rules as Sidious. The latter was extremely unlikely but there's no way you can convince me he wasn't ready for the possibility.

But both sides being manipulated by Palpatine doesn't change the fact that they were at war.

Sorry, but having your finger on the off button to the droid tech leaves me not agreeing there was any chance ever for CIS. As far as his master foresight and planning goes, he sure didn't see Vader chunkin him down a reactor shaft coming....

What if something happened which caused Palpatine to decide that a CIS victory was actually in his best interests? Or perhaps shutting down the droid army caused the non-droid CIS forces to fight hard enough to hold the line until they figured out how to reactivate them, and Palpatine could introduce himself or Sidious rather as an ally of the cause who had to re-establish contact once the army and command was shut down. Wars are not predixtable even when one side has a seemingly overwhelming advantage.

and like I said after order he guy and stopped planning things as carefully as he did in the old days.

Here's some insight for you

The CIS was INDEED meant to serve as a 'backup plan' for Sidious. It's actually perfect how good a plan it is to lead the CIS into a war against the Republic- he could easily 'tip' the sides either way.

We know Palpatine controlled both the Republic and the CIS, and he meant for the Republic to win.

However, the CIS was a security measure for Palpatine.

Think about this: If the Jedi Order discovers the identity of Palpatine as the Sith Lord AND the leader of the CIS, EG 'his worst nightmare'...NOT.

Palpatine doesn't have to give two hoots whether the Jedi discover him, because as long as he can RUN away from them, he can rejoin the CIS as Sidious and lead the CIS to rule the galaxy.

How?
As Chancellor he knows ALL the operational secrets of the Republic, and as master of the Clone Army, he still has control over the clones. Order 66 is possibly..one of many possible orders. He probably has a 'kill switch' for the Clone Army as well.

So there's two scenarios that Palpatine has thought out.

-The one that worked, the CIS exhaust the Jedi and he betrays them, leading the Republic and terminating the Jedi

-The Jedi find his true identity, and Palpatine rules the CIS as his Sidious persona. They don't care that's he's a Sith Lord, they knew that already, and he controls all the droids anyway- they have no choice in the matter.

Mace Windu was VERY right when he tried to kill Palpatine. There is pretty much no way to stop his plan short of killing him. If you tried and imprisoned him, he would have 2 loyal armies that would attempt to break him free and dissolve the government.

The only other possible scenario where the Jedi win if Palpatine is allowed to live/flee, is that if they somehow escape the destruction of the Clone Army, raise a normal army from the galaxy's population, and fight the Emperor that way.

And that's EXACTLY what they did in terms of the Rebellion. Except you know, I'm guessing they didn't plan to have only 3 of them left.

According to the Guide to Warfare Order 66 was just one of a few hundred contingency orders for various situations.

Order 66 was to eliminate all Jedi and restore the chain of command in case of a Jedi Rebellion.

Another Order to get the Clones back under his controll should he be ousted by the Jedis and run to the CIS is a good possibility.

Sadly too many Order 66-survivors crawl around in the EU.

Here's some insight for you

The CIS was INDEED meant to serve as a 'backup plan' for Sidious. It's actually perfect how good a plan it is to lead the CIS into a war against the Republic- he could easily 'tip' the sides either way.

We know Palpatine controlled both the Republic and the CIS, and he meant for the Republic to win.

However, the CIS was a security measure for Palpatine.

Think about this: If the Jedi Order discovers the identity of Palpatine as the Sith Lord AND the leader of the CIS, EG 'his worst nightmare'...NOT.

Palpatine doesn't have to give two hoots whether the Jedi discover him, because as long as he can RUN away from them, he can rejoin the CIS as Sidious and lead the CIS to rule the galaxy.

How?

As Chancellor he knows ALL the operational secrets of the Republic, and as master of the Clone Army, he still has control over the clones. Order 66 is possibly..one of many possible orders. He probably has a 'kill switch' for the Clone Army as well.

So there's two scenarios that Palpatine has thought out.

-The one that worked, the CIS exhaust the Jedi and he betrays them, leading the Republic and terminating the Jedi

-The Jedi find his true identity, and Palpatine rules the CIS as his Sidious persona. They don't care that's he's a Sith Lord, they knew that already, and he controls all the droids anyway- they have no choice in the matter.

Mace Windu was VERY right when he tried to kill Palpatine. There is pretty much no way to stop his plan short of killing him. If you tried and imprisoned him, he would have 2 loyal armies that would attempt to break him free and dissolve the government.

The only other possible scenario where the Jedi win if Palpatine is allowed to live/flee, is that if they somehow escape the destruction of the Clone Army, raise a normal army from the galaxy's population, and fight the Emperor that way.

And that's EXACTLY what they did in terms of the Rebellion. Except you know, I'm guessing they didn't plan to have only 3 of them left.

Exactly that's what I've been saying all along just in much greater detail. I think the main reason he was worried about the Jedi discovering his true identity wasn't because it posed a threat to his plan to form the Empire. I think it did pose a threat to his plan to turn Anakin though, which is why most of what he does in ROTS pre-Order 66 is focused on assuring Anakin's fall to the dark side.

Hey, lets make this one guy happy I say we kill off the whole crew by the end of the first season. That legitimizes the Inquisitor's role as being a great Jedi Hunter. Lets have that happen for five or six seasons until we get to Luke and we wonder why he never mentions encountering the Inquisitor in the movies or any of the main cast for that matter. Though the Inquisitor is so great by then he should be able to kill Luke with but a thought cause he killed so many Jedi.

Now back to what Rebels makes me think, I think it is the Legacy storyline kidded up for the Disney audience. That is it really you got Cade=Kanan and pretty much can line up other members of the cast to a equal in Legacy with the exception of the kid. As far as I know Cade never took on a trainee. However, since clone wars Ahsoka tested so well in Clone Wars it is obvious you have to have that. As for how can a Jedi be running around and not get wiped out? Hutt space, Outer Rim, Unknown Regions, Corporate Sector, and Hapes Cluster are just a few places where the Empire's influence is not strongly felt. Yes if Kanan lightsabers someone into itty bitty pieces that links a lightsaber to the killing. However, there are individuals in the universe capable of using a lightsaber who are not Jedi. And a lot of you are assuming the Empire has the ability to investigate, collect evidence, and catch the criminal. Know they usually assume, plant evidence, and bombard the criminal from orbit to be sure they hit him; and if they hit a few civilians well they shouldn't of been harboring a criminal anyway. And suddenly that turns into the destruction of yet another Jedi rebel. Now the Inquisitor going to have to figure out if it is a random Jedi who has popped up out of obscurity or just some dingbat with a lightsaber. Due to the timeline it is probably the latter not the former so he would first just dispatch a squad of storm troopers to deal with it. By the way that how they deal with found Jedi they don't try to capture or question they just kill him/her by any means necessary. If that means a garrison of Stormtroopers then that who goes kill him. You guys are under the impression Palpatine and Vader spent a vast majority of the 19 years before the Death Star slaying Jedi. Palpatine with the exception of very few was not known as a force user at all and Vader was often regulated to tough but public strike forces to promote his position of protector of the Empire. That why the Inquisitor group was formed to have some dark siders on hand to go deal with those situations that didn't need a Sith Lord. I am betting that if Kanan came near Vader he would crap himself and run like a hyped up Rancor was after him.

So I will simply wait for the show and make a better decision from there whether or not I like it or not.

Pretty much agree with this.

Every time my character ran up against Darth Vader it was time to run!

I was wondering how they'd handle this since any actual Jedi would know they couldn't settle down on any world if they planned to do anything about the Empire and not expect reprisals!

It will be interesting to see what they do although I doubt Vader will get involved this early other than maybe a cameo so we have someone to make the Inquisitor sweat whilst he's doing the same to others... I'm hoping they start from the ground up with this series so we get an idea of whats happening on the world it starts on before they start moving out of the system when the going gets hot!

Such symbology only works if it can be used by multiple folks, takes almost no time, and is obviously a symbol.

I can't help but hear lines from "Boondock Saints" all of a sudden.

I liked that a Mandalorian got put in the ships lineup and that she seems to be more Jaster Mereel Mandalorian then a part of the Deathwatch or Satine Darmandas.

I liked that a Mandalorian got put in the ships lineup and that she seems to be more Jaster Mereel Mandalorian then a part of the Deathwatch or Satine Darmandas.

However, Sabine, the Mandalorian in the show, seems to be influenced by deathwatch - in that the new canon the mandalorians were recovering from their pacifist ways because of the actions of deathwatch.

Pretty much agree with this.

Every time my character ran up against Darth Vader it was time to run!

I was wondering how they'd handle this since any actual Jedi would know they couldn't settle down on any world if they planned to do anything about the Empire and not expect reprisals!

It will be interesting to see what they do although I doubt Vader will get involved this early other than maybe a cameo so we have someone to make the Inquisitor sweat whilst he's doing the same to others... I'm hoping they start from the ground up with this series so we get an idea of whats happening on the world it starts on before they start moving out of the system when the going gets hot!

Well, the way I got my characters to play ball is the good old fashioned Imperial bastard way:

Submit, or we'll burn your homeworld. Don't have a homeworld? (Or is it too important?) Guess we'll just burn a bunch of random dissident worlds until you come out. Nothing like killing billions to impart the strong lesson: Jedi should stay hidden.

Such symbology only works if it can be used by multiple folks, takes almost no time, and is obviously a symbol.

I can't help but hear lines from "Boondock Saints" all of a sudden.

sssssymbology

Well after Ducky relinquished it seems we have a new heir to the bonehead throne.

Symbolism. The word you are looking for is sssssymbolism.

So how about the ship Ghost? I mean I know it is a Y- something from Corellian Engineering but what are its stats. Inquiring me wants to know what it stats would be as well. Any thoughts or have we gotten that far?