Whoa, guys guys guys...

I think what we're really missing here is the fact that space magic exists, hyperdrive exists, fighters act like they do in atmosphere, in space for... Some reason.

Come on dudes lasers are our least bit of concern. Who cares what actually really does what in real life? These things fire tibanna gas bolts at each other.

C'mon guys, nuff said.

Lasers and engines make sounds in space. In fact, there is orchestra music in space.

In space, no one can hear you scream...

It must be because that dang music is playing so loud!

Seems the loud music has silenced them.

Parravon:

Nah i just enjoy baiting him... Is something fun to work on while my code is compiling.

Some days it's like shooting fish in a barrel... with a grenade launcher!

BKL:

I am quite careful not to rely on any form of particular laser unless you first bring them up. I wouldn't want to confuse you. Yes there are some lasers with some properties that alleviate some of the issues I raise. Quite often they exacerbate some of the other issues.

I was not talking about any particular laser. I was mrely pointing out that for a given power of laser there are ways to reduce blooming and that those ways to reduce blooming will necessarily affect you damage dealing efficiency. That limits effective range and thus utility. It doesn't mean the weapons are broken, they are just not the awesome sause you seem to think they will be. You keep pointing out by the way that blooming will be a non issue. I see no proof as to this. Everything I read about this all say it will reduce the problem not negate it.

Who cares how efficient lasers are? Not me. You were the one saying that lasers were not efficient so scientists didn't know what they could do. Light bulds are not efficient, if I want more light I build a bigger bulb. Which is what scientists did when they wanted more powerful beams. So harping on about efficiency is just clouding the issue.

No actually - you said I refused to say what my job was. Which was an outright lie. I had never been asked. That I'm pretty sure constitues an attack!

http://mazur.harvard.edu/publications/Pub_237.pdf It seems your comments about microexplosions come from this article. I notice you seem to have editted out that part about how surprisingly small the resultant damage was. Partial quotes really are the best aren't they!

No, that's not how science works. I'm not going looking for your arguments. That is your job to supply evidence to support your arguments.

Erm... what? I said the laser was on half the time. Do you want it on 3/4 of the time? You do realise than 100 pulses of 1/200 of a second has the same power output as running the laser for 1/2 a second right?

I aven't changed my explanations. I have expanded on them. I thought you meant something different. That is all. You are a crazy person who reads what they want to read. I can't change that for you but perhaps I can put others reading this forum in the right place not to read your insane rambles as truth.

Oh please give me another comparison? The light is being maniuplated using a physical substrate not a field.

Oh joy - you did Judo and Sambo. Whoop de doo..

Nah - i'm not attacking anyone else. You just need putting right! Plus good to see you understand I am deconstructing your arguments. See that is how science works!

On solar panels, fine believe what you want. I'm going to stick with science on this and say you can't have energy out > energy in. That breaks the conservation of energy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-emitting_diode#Efficiency_and_operational_parameters lists light output efficiencies of LEDs. Now indeed scientists at MIT have invented a LED which is 230% electrically efficient. However it draws energy from thermal sources around it. As such it is not more than 100% energy efficient. http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-03/09/230-percent-efficient-leds

So he designs gas turbines. What would he know about solar panels? And if he does know about them. Please go show this thread to him and ask if he really means that solar panels can in any way convert 1W of incoming energy into more than 1W of output energy. I'm sure he will have a good laugh!

And now you are talking magic shiny things! So i'm going to head off to bed. Ta ta!

I'm going to head desk into a doornail if this keeps up...

Dem lasers doe.

Could we get this thread removed? It's not at all talking about a TIE Defender other than vague references to hyper-advanced technology tens of thousands of years ahead of ours…There's just no point for this discussion to be happening.

The TIE defender is a really cool ship and it's going to kick tons of rear in X-Wing. A couple of TIE Defenders in a list is going to ruin someone's day.

Could we get this thread removed? It's not at all talking about a TIE Defender other than vague references to hyper-advanced technology tens of thousands of years ahead of ours…There's just no point for this discussion to be happening.

I've been tempted many times to hit the Report link on most of this thread.

Could we get this thread removed? It's not at all talking about a TIE Defender other than vague references to hyper-advanced technology tens of thousands of years ahead of ours…There's just no point for this discussion to be happening.

Just do what I've been doing, go through the continued argumentive posts and report each of them for thread derailment/flaming/flame-baiting, heck one of them even admits they are doing this just to troll the other.

Could we get this thread removed? It's not at all talking about a TIE Defender other than vague references to hyper-advanced technology tens of thousands of years ahead of ours…There's just no point for this discussion to be happening.

Just do what I've been doing, go through the continued argumentive posts and report each of them for thread derailment/flaming/flame-baiting, heck one of them even admits they are doing this just to troll the other.

Yeah see that's the reply that got me.

So, anyone think that the E-Wing is the ship that's supposed to be able to balance the Defender? Because unless they've seriously nerfed the maneuverability and speed of the Defender, I don't think there's anything that can match it on a one-to-one basis.

So, anyone think that the E-Wing is the ship that's supposed to be able to balance the Defender? Because unless they've seriously nerfed the maneuverability and speed of the Defender, I don't think there's anything that can match it on a one-to-one basis.

I think the E-wing will be very close…it's 27 points, it's stat line is 3-3-2-3 and it has Evade (which the Defender doesn't have)…i don't really expect it to be quite as good in the dial, but i think it will be a reasonably fair fight one on one…other than that…i wouldn't think anything can beat it (save Firespray and Falcon)…the B-wing would get thrashed (unless it were Ibtisam with some insane mobility), and the X-wing certainly couldn't hold out. Thankfully they (FFG) seem to cost ships very well, so i'm not too concerned.

Hey - if you don't like the thread don't read it! In my opinion i'm not trolling him, baiting him a little sure. But then he is the one trying to link SW with real science, I'm just replying with science (and the odd snarky remark - rather like I would in real life).

Also I think the E-wing will be the counter to the Defender. That or flechette armed Headhunters! =)

I hope none of the other small ships can match up with the Defender 1-on-1. We are talking a ship that's at least 30 points after all.

I guess I was thinking in casual or non-points based combat, I'm just not sure if I can see Wedge in an X-Wing beat a Defender, even though he should be able to, at least against a significantly lower skill-level pilot.

I guess I was thinking in casual or non-points based combat, I'm just not sure if I can see Wedge in an X-Wing beat a Defender, even though he should be able to, at least against a significantly lower skill-level pilot.

That'll be a close one. The defender gets and extra hitpoint, but wedge shoots first. Edge goes to whomever has the better dial.

Mmmm

So, anyone think that the E-Wing is the ship that's supposed to be able to balance the Defender? Because unless they've seriously nerfed the maneuverability and speed of the Defender, I don't think there's anything that can match it on a one-to-one basis.

I think the E-wing will be very close…it's 27 points, it's stat line is 3-3-2-3 and it has Evade (which the Defender doesn't have)…i don't really expect it to be quite as good in the dial, but i think it will be a reasonably fair fight one on one…other than that…i wouldn't think anything can beat it (save Firespray and Falcon)…the B-wing would get thrashed (unless it were Ibtisam with some insane mobility), and the X-wing certainly couldn't hold out. Thankfully they (FFG) seem to cost ships very well, so i'm not too concerned.

Dice rolling can favor one person especially in a game and if the other person is better at maneuvering and judging where the opposing force will end up, I can see the defender losing without the Rebels fielding an E-Wing. Just ship stats alone do not necessarily predict outcomes.

I think it's pretty clear that the Defender will have a better dial than the X-Wing. Even if it is just as maneuverable as the TIE/Ln or the TIE Advanced, it will be superior to the X-Wing in maneuverability and speed. And in canon descriptions, it's supposed to be an upgrade to the Interceptor in terms of speed.

I still think the Defender is a bit too much like a Mary Sue of a ship - it's as fast as an A-Wing, more durable than an X-Wing, more guns than a B-Wing, and a dark and angsty backstory full of betrayal.

I think it's pretty clear that the Defender will have a better dial than the X-Wing. Even if it is just as maneuverable as the TIE/Ln or the TIE Advanced, it will be superior to the X-Wing in maneuverability and speed. And in canon descriptions, it's supposed to be an upgrade to the Interceptor in terms of speed.

I still think the Defender is a bit too much like a Mary Sue of a ship - it's as fast as an A-Wing, more durable than an X-Wing, more guns than a B-Wing, and a dark and angsty backstory full of betrayal.

Faster than a speeding bullet...

More powerful than a locomotive...

Able to leap tall buildings in a single bound...

No you are not taking into consideration the effect of diffrent matarials that could be used that have a diffrent reaction than what we use now that would generate a more powerful charge. Trust me I constulted the guy I house sit for who is a long time runing Frucon mechanical engnieer. Unfortuntally he says we are both correct when it comes to are disscusion about solar panels.

"Trust me, I consulted the guy I house-sit for . . ."

Thanks, I needed that laugh! I love how you imply that consulting someone is equivalent to years of education.

And now I'm done. Really.

Regarding the TIE Defender, the maneuver dial is where it will really shine. Unless they're ignoring the fluff, the TIE/D is supposed to be super-fast and super-maneuverable. It'll outclass the A-wing and likely be an even better ship to stick PTL on. I just wish they'd start putting in beam weapons, because that was always a fun to use in the old TIE Fighter game.