I wonder if my opinion about these wave 4 ships is effected by where I saw them first.

For example my first experience with the E-wing was in the comic Dark Empire. I loved reading the comic. It was a ton of fun, but it took the Star Wars story line to weird places. I never really had a problem with the story until some one told me there was such a thing as Star Wars Cannon. That the Luke Skywalker from the Timothy Zawn, Heir to the Empire series was the same Luke as the Luke from Dark Empire. That ruined it for me. When Dark Empire was a cool story about, What if "the Emperor isn't dead, and he has like a billion clones of himself, and one more thing you have to turn evil, it is a requirement to beat the Emperor." to no all that weird stuff that actually happened. (Honestly the idea that anything "actually happened" in a fictional universe is a little too much for me). But needless to say there were lot's of things about Dark Empire that I didn't love. And well, saying that it is cannon, and having E-wing's show up in latter X-wing books, because, well, they had them at the battle of Mon Cal, was lame.

Is that why I hate the E-wing, who knows?

The TIE Defender on the other hand par the ultimate ship you could get in the TIE Fighter PC game. I loved, loved loved that game. I never had any problem with it being added (or not added) to some sort of Star Wars Cannon. So maybe I like the TIE Defender more for that reason.

The first time I saw the Z-95 it was in some concept art for Star Wars. The sketch that is clearly an Z-95 was an early design for what became the X-wing. Not an early design in the Star Wars Universe, but in our (the real) world. The first time I saw the Z-95 referenced in universe was in the original West End Games Star Wars Role playing game. I loved that role playing game, but I still think of the Z-95 as the X-wing before they made it look not-ugly.

I have never really heard of the TIE Phantom. I have seen pictures of it here or there, but never really knew anything about it. I am pretty ambivalent to this new ship, may this is why.

I think hating the E-Wing because it first showed up in Dark Empire, which had a bunch of completely unrelated (to the fighter) random story stuff going on that soured you on the overall story, is a weird reason to dislike it. The reason it showed up in later books and became (more) canon (whatever that means these days) is that a lot of people, like myself, were wowed by the design when it showed up.

It wasn't in the books because "well, they had them at the battle of Mon Cal," they showed up in the books because a lot of people who read Dark Empire loved the E-Wings and started working them into the fiction that followed it.

That's kind of like me saying that I hate A-Wings and B-Wings, not because of their design, but because they showed up in ROTJ and man did I hate me some Ewoks.

I think hating the E-Wing because it first showed up in Dark Empire, which had a bunch of completely unrelated (to the fighter) random story stuff going on that soured you on the overall story, is a weird reason to dislike it. The reason it showed up in later books and became (more) canon (whatever that means these days) is that a lot of people, like myself, were wowed by the design when it showed up.

It wasn't in the books because "well, they had them at the battle of Mon Cal," they showed up in the books because a lot of people who read Dark Empire loved the E-Wings and started working them into the fiction that followed it.

That's kind of like me saying that I hate A-Wings and B-Wings, not because of their design, but because they showed up in ROTJ and man did I hate me some Ewoks.

I'm not saying it is the reason I hate the E-wing, I am just offering it as maybe some sort of subconscious possibility.

Ah ha! So you do hate the E-Wing.

I'm just saying; "E-Wing was in Dark Empire..." followed by this wall of text about what bugged you about Dark Empire, followed by "having them show up later just because they were in the battle of MonCal is lame" is kind of a strange, roundabout explanation for why you dislike the ship. Most people are like "is ugly, don't like," not dissertating on the nature of "what makes Luke, Luke?"

I don't know. I'd say it's pretty reasonable. I mean if you first saw Actor X in horrible movie Y, even if their personal performance wasn't bad, you might hesitate to see Blockbuster movie Z Staring Actor X since you associate them with bad movies. In a similar vein he associates the E-wing with Lower quality star wars products. It's not perfect but hey, humans are weird man.

I think Hrathen has a point. I think we are all influenced by the movies/games/books that we saw the ships in first.

That is the reason x-wings will always be at the top end of the "cool" list. The firespray is an ugly ship....but it looks cool to us because we know it was Fett's ship and so on.

Its the reason I am not excited about any of the prequel ships. I just did not like the movies, and so all the ships in it are just not as interesting for me.

Think about this.....if you never saw the original Stars wars trilogy........how would the falcon stack up to the other ships on looks alone?

It really is hard to pin down why we "like" "don't like" stuff sometimes. Is Han Solo cool largely becasue he flies an awesome ship, OR is the Falcon cool because its flown by the coolest scruffy yet lovable smuggler we've ever seen. It's a variation of the chicken/egg scenario.

Vongpenguin hit the nail on the head. "Daredeveil was a horrible movie. So Ben Affleck is a horrible super hero. Why O Why is Ben Affleck Batman? That movie will be horrible"

My wife never saw star wars until 2 years ago. (I know, I know. I can't understand it either). She thought the Firespray was ugly looking when she first saw it while I think it looks awesome. But would I think it was ugly too if I had no context of who flew it? Or if I didn't have a toy of it as a kid and spent countless hours playing with it?

Memories and association heavily weigh in our preferences of what we like and don't like.

I have never played any games or read any books with the TIE Defender in them. And when I first looked up what it looked like not too long ago, I got to say, I thought it looked pretty dumb (and still do).

I never read the comics or anything else with the EU. I only like the original trilogy less Darth Maul. Let me say this about the E-wing....... I love it lol. I will be buying at least 4 !

I have never really heard of the TIE Phantom. I have seen pictures of it here or there, but never really knew anything about it. I am pretty ambivalent to this new ship, may this is why.

The TIE Phantom was an integral component in the video game Rebel Assault II. I think that may have been its first appearance. Very cool ship. Cool design. I'm looking forward to its release, probably because I played that video game a lot back when I was a teenager.

I know I'm looking forward to the Phantom because I grew up on Star Wars video games like Dark Forces (the HWK-290 got me into the miniatures) and Rebel Assault. I tell myself that I like the design too, but I can't be sure how much of that is influenced by my past. I'd be willing to bet (if it was possible to prove), that I'd be accepting of it, but I can't guarantee more than that.

Jokubas has a good point. I like the HWK-290, and I loved Dark Forces. Most people find it the ugliest ship in the range.

Talking about the aesthetic appeal of anything is going to be tricky, but doubly so with Star Wars. One thing that makes Star Wars ships so cool looking is how ugly they look. I mean would the Falcon look so cool if it didn't look so ugly. Think about it, the first movie came out in the 70s and we still love how the special effects look (we not be impressed with the tech, but they look cool) Part of this is how everything in Star Wars looks used, functional, and ugly. That is why it is so gorgeous.