Hello everyone.

I know it's obvious that X-wing is a great game. I have been playing it from the beginning with kids from school where I work. We play mostly for fun and because they love playing Rebels for obvious reasons somebody must play the bad guys. I dont mind it and it gives me a lot of fun but I don't have many occasions to play Rebels.

About month ago my friend asked me to show him the game and he loved it. We play almost every week and since he prefer the Empire I can finally tryout the Alliance. Though I have lost all matches and I feel like a total newbie I'm glad to see the game from a new point of view. I tried to play XXX (Luke, Wedge, Biggs) and XXBB with diffrent sets of upgrade cards but I haven't got much luck. My friend uses diffrent squads (from Slave I with Tie escort to mini swarms mixing diffrent types of Ties) so I found that Imperium can be dangerous in many ways and that loosing a single ship is much bigger loss for Rebels than it is for the Empire.

I have two core sets and two copies of almost every small expansion (only one Falcon, Slave, Lambda, HWK and Y-wing) so lack of cards is rarely a problem. What advice would you give me? What are general rules of playing Rebels successfully?

I like 3.5+ ships - I consider A's HWKs (w/ turret) and Y's (regardless of turret) as .8 ships, and the named YTs as 1.5. And I like 1 ICT.

So basically, this comes down to:

2 X/B + 1 A + 1 Y/H

2 X/B + 2 Y/H

3 X/B + 1 Y/H

2 X + 1 A + 2 H

I know, it doesn't leave that much room for variety as the base point value for (Rookie x2, Proto, Rebel Op w/ ICT) is 80 points. But those 20 points is where the magic happens. 2 are often spent upgrading to a Y wing, or 3 to upgrade to Roark. With the remaining 17/18, You can upgrade all the ships to +2 PS for 8/6 points, leaving you with 11/10 points for other upgrades. Typically this is 1 high PS, or 2 mid PS. Though it could also be spent upgrading X to B (2 points each), and then putting a systems on them (typically AdvS x2). Now you're left with 2 more points for init or something.

I guess it depends if you're looking more for specific list ideas, or general rules of thumb.

As far as rules of thumb go, if you can squeeze in 4 ships that will often (not always, and as stated, the YT really shouldn't be counted as 1 ship) trump 3. There are good 3 ship builds even excepting the Falcon, but 4 is kind of the sweet spot right now pre-wave 4.

The other advice I would give is not to take your extra toughness for granted. Imperial lists do well because most of their ships are potential one-shots, so good Imp pilots tend to FLY their squads like the next hit could kill any given ship. That helps them survive and wear down the opposition with massed fire.

New Rebel players often put too much faith in the individually superior toughness and firepower of their ships, and charge headlong into the guns of the enemy, getting picked to pieces in the process. Or think that because a TIE can be killed with one good shot, that it often WILL be, underestimating just how tough they can be with the higher agility and an evade token, let alone focus + evade stacked on an elite TIE. Or how much extra firepower someone like Howlrunner helps dish out.

In other words, Rebel players tend to fly too aggressively, counting on bigger guns and their shields to keep them alive, and give very little thought to things like trying to minimize the number of incoming shots, using actions to turtle up, flying more defensively, etc. Tactics the Imperials need to survive go even further when you've got more margin for error having shields and such.

My motto as a (usual) Rebel is: Fly defensively, Shoot aggressively.

6x6x6/Focus Factory

100 points

Pilots

Ibtisam (38)

B-Wing (28), Advanced Sensors (3), Push the Limit (3), Engine Upgrade (4)\

Garven Dreis (30)

X-Wing (26), R2-D2 (4)

Kyle Katarn (32)

HWK-290 (21), Ion Cannon Turret (5), Recon Specialist (3), Moldy Crow (3)}

Wow. Thanks. I think I'll try 4 ships squads. They give a lot of flexibility. I was thinking about playing with two turret ships to negate Ties' high manoeuvrability. Something like:

XX or BB

Y with Ict

HWK Kyle/Roark with Bt, RecSpec & MC title

but I guess that the main problem would be keeping XX/BB alive.

BBXX can be a good squad. One popular version is 2 Rookies, 2 Blues with HLC, but there are several variations.

The trick with that squad is to have the X-Wings drawing fire but trying to stay alive and dish out damage, while running interference out in front of the B-Wings, who hang back and blast with the HLCs.

As CrookedWookie hinted, there are two well known and entirely viable BBXX lists.

Blue Thunder

2x Rookie Pilot

2x Blue Squadron Pilot + HLC

All PS2. Heavy hitters. Quite dangerous.

Bloody Daggers

2x Red Squadron Pilot

2x Dagger Squadron Pilot + Advanced Sensors

All PS4, all heavy hitters (though slightly less than Blue Thunder), but Advanced Sensors on a B-Wing is incredibly powerful.

I find HLC to be a somewhat wasteful use of points on B-Wings to be entirely honest, unless I'm pairing them with something else that makes them supremely effective. HLC is actually best used to fight slower Imperial targets, like Shuttles, TIE Bombers, and the new TIE Phantoms that are coming out. Otherwise you're better spending points on a systems upgrade, but I find that Ion Cannons on B-Wings to be the underused and underrated savior of the Rebel fleet. If you can land hits with it on quicker craft, then follow up by super death attacks at range 1.

Now, I'm not going to convince you that ion cannons on the B-Wing are better than the turret of the Y-Wing, because it's not. That said, ionizing enemy craft can just ruin their lives. I suggest maybe using that Y-Wing as "Dutch" Vander. He's great to use in combinations with almost any other craft. A sexy little thing I like doing is throwing my Green Squadron Pilots with Push the Limit out there with a Focus and Evade then passing over that Target Lock. Garven Dreis is nice for this too.

Keep trying! You'll figure out what works soon enough, but keep in mind that no, you can't fly the Rebels like you fly the Imperials, at least not until we get some Z-95's in our hands.

It's a solid archetype, especially since when you close, the Bs start knife fighting in close while the Xs joust, hitting from different angles. I do love a Blue with HLC, tho. Firing 4 dice at every range never gets old.

I don't have two Advanced Sensors to fully equip Bloody Daggers but I will definitely try Blue Thunder. I haven't got chance to use it because as a guest my friend is usualy first to pick upgrades and I have only two HLC.

My real problem is very few X-wing players in my city so it will take some time to check all those ideas but thanks to you guys I'll have a lot of fun trying out new squads.

The nice thing about HLCs on the B-Wing (and as was mentioned above, you should absolutely be trying to focus and/or target lock them whenever possible for maximum effect) is that it presents potential targets with a really unpalatable choice.

1. Hang around range 3, which is doing you no good because you're not getting a bonus defense die against the HLC attacks, but the B-Wing with the HLC is more than likely getting them against yours.

2. Hang around range 2, which is only marginally better, because the B-Wing is still getting 4 dice, he's just a little easier to hit from here.

3. Get into range 1, which is an even WORSE idea, because B-Wings are slippery knife-fighters in close, and now he's got 4 dice and can roll unmodified crits.

Use the X-Wings to run interference for the B-Wings, who should hang at long range as long as possible. If they try to make an end run at the B-Wings you should be able to K-turn in behind them with the Rookies. If you can land a bunch of hard to answer damage at range with the HLCs before you get in close, you should be in pretty good shape.

High agility targets hate heavy lasers - an Interceptor with Stealth at range 3, best case, is still getting 4v4 dice, which are not good odds as far as even a single hit getting through and knocking stealth off.

I'll actually reconsider the HLC B-Wing, since I just came up with a list in another thread you can give a try in the future (provided you get another HLC card and B-Wing...)

3 Blue Squadron Pilots, HLC

1 Bandit Squadron Pilot

99 Points, lots of firepower, and just enough health and ships to get really annoying.

Right now there's a decent version of that using 3x Dagger + HLC + FCS for 99 (I think).

The difference obviously being dropping Daggers to Blues, losing the upgrade, and squeezing in a naked Z95. I actually do like that, because more bodies is usually better. I'd consider dropping one HLC to Ion, giving the Bandit a missile or something. But I didn't throw that one out there because it involves a ship that isn't released yet.

I'll actually reconsider the HLC B-Wing, since I just came up with a list in another thread you can give a try in the future (provided you get another HLC card and B-Wing...)

3 Blue Squadron Pilots, HLC

1 Bandit Squadron Pilot

99 Points, lots of firepower, and just enough health and ships to get really annoying.

We can always try "proxy gaming"

Well if you were going to proxy game, the lack of Advanced Sensors shouldn't be an issue, either.

Wow. Thanks. I think I'll try 4 ships squads. They give a lot of flexibility. I was thinking about playing with two turret ships to negate Ties' high manoeuvrability. Something like:

XX or BB

Y with Ict

HWK Kyle/Roark with Bt, RecSpec & MC title

but I guess that the main problem would be keeping XX/BB alive.

If manuever is a problem, I'd recommend taking a Ywing or two with ion cannons in order to counter that until you get the hang of figuring out how to manage the imperials with your dials. I also recommend four ships unless you are going with the rebel's holy trinity.

You seem to have good instincts for fleet-building, given what you've said thus far.

My first thought is that you may have been lead to interpreting the rules incorrectly, or some other non-reported issue that is giving your opponents an advantage.

My advice then is this: Forget what you know, Re-read the rule-book, Read the FAQ, and come back with any questions and/or inconsistencies you spot. We'll gladly clear up any questions you have in the "Rules Questions" sub-forum

Also, play with Asteroids. They make things more challenging for Swarm Players.

Thank you Like I said I don't have many occasions to play so I read a lot about the game. I visit sites like themetalbikini or teamcovenant every week so I can stay on track.

There is something very good and positive about this game. I admire what Doug Kinney did with the community. "Fly casual" is the attitude I teach kids when we play and it works great.