Asking this for my GM of my current Dark Heresy campaign. He recently jumped off the Psyker rage this session to address a new problem that's been heavily plaguing him for awhile-- Automatic fire.

Specifically, of our party of four, one of our party (the assassin), favors the autogun that the Assassin career starts off with.

And our GM has found this ends up putting the Assassin MILES ahead of the rest of the party, and most of the enemies he prepares, in combative ability. It really just seemed to strike home tonight when a boss encounter he'd been setting up for us, was immediately reduced in difficulty by the Assassin instagibbing an enemy on turn one.

Specifically, the tactic the Assassin tends to use is quite simple. Go full-auto fire at point blank range, giving her a +50 bonus to hit, and then, of course, causing absolutely ridiculous damage with the multiple bullets that hit. Our GM is trying to give us level appropriate stuff, that... well. The entire party should be able to handle (albeit with difficulty). This means he doesn't want to go overboard on suping up the enemy armor or toughness solely to deal with the Assassin, because what will happen in that event, is that instead of the Assassin simply doing far MORE damage, the assassin will be the only one doing damage at all.

Simply put, our GM has actually yet to find an enemy that our 2 Guardsmen and Psyker would be able to deal with, that our Assassin cannot kill in 2 turns at the most, with that autogun. And he would rather not just distribute autoguns among the whole party either (we actually discussed this after the game and he admitted to be at a loss at what to do-- mainly because he does not actually want to TAILOR stuff to being able to specifically deal with the Assassin.)

Given the relative common nature of the Autogun, what are some general tactics a GM can employ for dealing with auto-gun "Full auto" spammers at lower ranks (ie. Below rank 5) without seriously/disproportionately endangering the rest of the party.

1. Don't let the assassin with an Assault Rifle get to point blank range! This is >3 metres range and should require quite a bit of movement to get to. Equally, let her run up, full auto one opponent....then have someone else stood next to the person that she's calmly walked into point blank range of demonstrate why this particular range bracked belongs to weapons with scatter and open up with a decent calibre shotgun.
2. The difference between an autogun on full auto and a lasgun on semi-auto aren't too bad at normal range: A BS35-ish lasgun burst at short range (say 30-40m) lands an average of one hit whilst an autogun on full auto lands two-and-a-bit. But The autogun has only got three bursts in the bin, whilst the lasgun has ten.
3. In the more recent versions of the game (Black Crusade and Only War), the rules for combat attacks have been tweaked. You might consider embodying those changes - have a look at the downloadable taster adventures for those systems for details, but essentially the to-hit modifiers for single/semi-auto/full-auto get reversed*, and multiple melee attacks use one roll to hit and work off degrees of success, like automatic weapons fire.
4. Make the players keep track of ammo over the campaign. Las-packs can be recharged reasonably easily in any technological setting (Say Hive Sibellus), whilst out in the wilds (Dusk?), the las weapon's higher ammo capacity makes it more appealing because you're not reduced to bayonets and harsh language after one fight
5. Don't hesitate to throw in a sizeable bunch of enemies. If there's four of you, try throwing not one big guy, but a bunch of hired assassins a dozen strong. Both sides of the party get to feel bad-ass because you will need the guardsmen to help take them down, whilst the assassin is far better placed providing suppressing fire (a useful trick for full-auto weapons).. Making people face numbers not only shows up the reliability of lasguns (which won't jam, whilst full-auto autoguns jam 1/10th of the time- don't forget to enforce rules for jamming!), but also their ammo capacity, and the fact that a guardsmen is both generally tougher and clad in guard flak armour, which - against multiple weaker foes - is a **** sight better than one slightly better dodge reaction per turn.

* So an aimed single shot is more likely to land a hit, but an automatic burst will on average land more hits - but at a higher risk of missing entirely.

Grendel has it pretty much summed up well.

Some points to add:

1. If they are within 3m, that means someone can start melee with the assassin, making their ranged weapon useless.

2. Grenades

3. Don't think tougher/better armored, think more. Everyone can dodge 1-2 ranged attacks a round. After that, if the roll works, it's a hit. Especially for the assassin who just rushed ahead of the party and brutally killed that poor teammate of theirs...

4. Even though Grendel said it, I have to emphasize that the BC/OW/DH 2e rules of -10 to full auto (and a half action) compared to the flat +20 and DoS hits are a great change that make full auto still very useful, just more situational (Suppressing fire, Closer up, large things, etc.) instead of the Instant Win if you have the ammo to spare it is in Core DH.

5. Tactical. Have the enemies use cover, suppressing fire (-20 WP test or they hit the ground/cover), various nades (frag, smoke, etc.) and make sure to have overlapping fields of fire (and possibly overwatch).

(Used sparingly)

Traps, have the defenders set up traps and watch that Assassin charge into, say, a mine.

That should prompt some caution in the future.

This situation is pretty easy to solve ColArana

• Circumstantial modifiers are the easiest to implement: Heavy rain giving a -20 to ballistic skills tests, the enemy being on higher ground, etc.
• The humble Autogun should appear more often, and be used similarly towards the party.
• The assassin can't autogun anyone if a mook jumps out and Grapples with him, or performs a Knock Down action. Likewise, Suppressing Fire and similar actions can resolve that issue.
• Getting into Point Blank shouldn't be easy either. The Enemy should be using cover and tactical advances throughout the 'boss' scenes.
• Environmental hazards might exist. The bad guy could be in an underwater dome where a single shot will cause the glass to shatter and drown everyone (melee only!)
• Ammunition counts?
• Expendable, ammunition soaking mooks.
• Play in Gunmetal City where bullets are the cash. D:

Obviously, no single answer can be given, because reusing the same solution over and over again will get very stale and unfun for the assassin player, as well as the rest of the party. Your gm mixing these sort of things up keeps things interesting. =D

I must admit, my first thought was simply this:

"..and that's why Full Auto was changed from +20 to -10..."

Full Auto is a Full Action. Which means that you'd need to run/move into Point Blank range on round 1, then stand around in your opponents Point Blank Range until the start of your next turn.

In that one turn, a lot could (and should) happen. Melee, for example.

You can't fire a Basic weapon in melee, and pistol weapons can only fire single shots.

Problem solved

Just a few comments. Most of these suggestions are great, but some of them have been addressed in the past.

On the point blank range thing, many of the fights that have broken out have involved either cramped quarters, where everyone is getting point blank range, or the Assassin's been sneaking around and essentially starting combat at that range. Going into melee would be a good idea (especially since our Assassin has fallen in love with his autogun so much that he has devoted pretty much all his upgrades to becoming a good ranged fighter), except for, again, the fact that someone in point blank range often very rarely gets a chance to make a move of their own, before they're reduced to a bloodstain.

I will just note the amount of overkill he tends to get is quite frankly ridiculous. It's not uncommon for him to go on a full health enemy (our GM uses mainly "human" enemies so far, so around 10-13 wounds), with decent to average armor, and end up inflicting in the realm of 15-20 points of Critical damage to them. Part of this is undoubtedly due to him taking both Mighty Shot, and Crack Shot (I think Crack Shot's the one that adds +2 to Crit. damage rolls isn't it)?

Also, ammo is not much an issue, given how cheap autogun ammo is. The Assassin in question has a backpack, and, in our current campaign, we've been on an extended mission into enemy territory (against enemies who are not using Auto-weapons, specifically to prevent the assassin looting them for ammo), and after half a dozen combats he still has nearly a hundred bullets left, not counting the fully loaded clip he's carrying around. So he's definitely got enough right now to see him through at least 7-8 more dead enemies, and we're probably nearing the end of this section of the campaign.

But I do like a lot of these suggestions, so I'll bring them up with him. Beats my suggestion last night, which was to custom-design armor for our enemies that was more resistant to Impact damage.

Well the simultaneously easiest and hardest solution would be to shift over to the Black Crusade/Only War rules set.

PS. sneaking up to point-blank range on someone is hard. Are you making sure the Concealment/Silent Move Tests are Opposed?

Well the simultaneously easiest and hardest solution would be to shift over to the Black Crusade/Only War rules set.

PS. sneaking up to point-blank range on someone is hard. Are you making sure the Concealment/Silent Move Tests are Opposed?

Sadly, we don't have the BC/OW rulebook and as most of us are college/university students, we don't really have the funds to spend on them (besides which we're waiting on DH2).

And yeah, we're making the opposed skill tests. It's an Assassin, so as long as there is any form of cover, generally his Concealment and Silent Move is beating out the opponent's Awareness, due to his relatively high agility.

On the point blank range thing, many of the fights that have broken out have involved either cramped quarters, where everyone is getting point blank range, or the Assassin's been sneaking around and essentially starting combat at that range.

ColArana, suggest to your GM to arm his mooks occasionally with an auspex. That should tip the balance to prevent the Assassin essentially getting a freebie every combat, and it fits with the setting. Plus side is that the Auspex is such a relatively trivial piece of kit that won't encourage 'leveling' the opposition. =D

Another wargear solution are Screamers, which would give the would-be assassin's position away in a heartbeat. Combine the two and it will be unlikely he'll get the drop on the npcs.

The thing is, with a 30 Agl human, they can charge into melee at a max of 6x 3 AglB (18) and a minumum of 4m in a straight line. So they can rush in and attack the assassin in melee, as well as if any surviving enemies nearby can just move in and melee.

As for the rules, just use the modifiers:

All these attacks are half actions and a success = auto 1 hit, then DoS as normal.

Single Shot/Strike: +10

Semi-Auto/Swift: +0

Full-Auto/Lightning: -10

Called Shots are a -30 modifier

BAM

toss that in the mix.

An auspex and screamers are very good ways to detect a sneaking assassin. Other possibilities include mutants with Unnatural Senses and psykers with Sense Presence. Be careful to only use these methods of detection where they make sense or your players will feel as though you're stacking the odds unfairly against them. For example, groups of enemies will probably only set up screamers when they plan to stay in one place for some time or when they are guarding a specific item or location.

The best way I've found to keep super-specialized players in check is to put them out of their comfort zone. If the enemies would be aware that the PCs are approaching, they could set up an ambush and spray the PCs with suppressing fire while launching frag grenades at them. Have a couple enemies with rifles attack the players from range while their mutant friends/hunting dogs/cyber-mastiffs rush the parties up close. Even enclosed locations have some relatively open spaces like a foyer, mess hall, or loading dock. If used appropriately, such challenges won't feel contrived but will be an interesting tactical challenge.

Aaannddd that's why we're stuck with full auto being at -10; people abusing it.

As others said, aupex, screamers, psykers with a minor power of sense presence...or just something that will NOT die from a full auto burst; a mutant with unnatural toughness or phase, Orks, or just fudge it really; nothing is worse than the big boss being killed by a single krak missile because the player got lucky and rolled 2 10s (yes happened this last Friday- how anti-climatic is that?). Just leave him with a single wound, but allow them to get into melee with a buddy or two, juuust long enough to get the tension up a notch...

Because really, if that's boring for the GM, I cannot imagine how boring it must be for you, basically being the B-team in the cell with the Assassin taking all the thunder,

Aaannddd that's why we're stuck with full auto being at -10; people abusing it.

As others said, aupex, screamers, psykers with a minor power of sense presence...or just something that will NOT die from a full auto burst; a mutant with unnatural toughness or phase, Orks, or just fudge it really; nothing is worse than the big boss being killed by a single krak missile because the player got lucky and rolled 2 10s (yes happened this last Friday- how anti-climatic is that?). Just leave him with a single wound, but allow them to get into melee with a buddy or two, juuust long enough to get the tension up a notch...

Because really, if that's boring for the GM, I cannot imagine how boring it must be for you, basically being the B-team in the cell with the Assassin taking all the thunder,

Funny thing, our whole party, minus one of the guardsmen has been running at 0 wounds or in critical damage for the last two sessions ever since the GM threw a fortification with a Heavy Stubber in our path, and a series of unfortunate events ended up having my Chameleon'd Psyker getting hit multiple times on a series of freak rolls, the Assassin falling off a five story building (and having to burn a fate point to not die), and one of our two Guardsmen getting carved up by a chainsword.

It is a testament to how effective our Assassin's been proving with that Auto Gun (that and Dodge+10), that she actually has not taken an armor piercing hit since (my Psyker on the other hand owes it all to Fate points and dressing up in the uniform of the rebels we're infiltrating to avoid confrontations).

I should note that it's not so much "the assassin taking all the thunder" as "The assassin makes any encounter not designed to be a TPK not worth having, as she annihilates the competition too efficiently." Granted I'm only running a rank 4 Psyker, but it's a testament in the GM's opinion, that neither the Psyker shooting lightning from his fingertips, nor the elite trained guardsman with good quality las weapons, or even the other Guardsman packing a looted Heavy Stubber, are able to come anywhere near the damage output of the Assassin with the weapon she literally started the game with.

Though admittedly, the problem with the Heavy Stubber is that there's not usually anywhere for the Guardsman to brace it against.

I think part of why we have it at -10 (+0 with half aim), is because it makes more sense. Firing a weapon full auto gives a lot of recoil which reduces accuracy. But because you have so much lead flying in the air, if you keep your gun under control, you can hurt. While Semi auto at +0 (+10 with half aim), doesn't fire as much but is more accurate with the shots it places.

On the point blank range thing, many of the fights that have broken out have involved either cramped quarters, where everyone is getting point blank range, or the Assassin's been sneaking around and essentially starting combat at that range.

I have problems with this. If "everyone" is getting Point Blank range, then your fights must be in an area smaller than my living room. PBR is 3 metres, that's nothing! In such close quarters, engaging in melee should be trivial (and devastating for your assassin).

To sneak up on a bunch of people is harder than just one, and especially if they're guards "Guarding" the area. Does he sneak up alone, far ahead of the rest of his team? If not, his teammates (which aren't as Sneaky) are likely to alert the guards. If he does, he will practically be alone in melee range of all his foes until backup arrives.

And even if he does sneak up on the baddies, he can only reliably take out 1 guy, before he should be swamped by the enemies.

Know the combat rules. You can't Move and Full Auto on the same turn. After the initial surprise attack, his position is known. If he moves in close, he should be stomped. Return fire, and melee chargers.

Play the opposition like you would play your own character in such a position. Let them use cover and concealment, let them use teamwork and tactics (suppressive fire, flanking, flamers and grenades to reach enemies in cover, etc)

Know your modifiers. Perhaps the guards have some gear to help them with their awareness. Photo-lenses, auspexes, extra training, etc. Have them Assist each other. Have debris and other things scattered on the floor, to make Silent Move more difficult. Chains and charms hanging from the ceiling, making noise as you try to move past/through them.

And why is there convenient cover less than 3 metres from you opponents, anyway?

Have them positioned so that they will have crossfire and be able to see each other. (The palace guards aren't all standing together in a huddle at the main gate, you know. They're spread out, on roofs and balconies, and positioned so they can see each other and any foes trying to sneak up on their mates.). Have a hidden guard or two, spying from out of sight. With a sniper rifle.

I dunno. Perhaps an example would help?

Play the opposition like you would play your own character in such a position.

Replying to myself again. A sure sign of madness!

My point here is that I was also frustrated that my players made mincemeat of everything I sent after them, until I realized I was just throwing cannon fodder after them. If the enemies act as Stromtroopers, standing around in corridors shooting ineffectual las-blasts after Our Heroes, then they will all die.

If you're rolling the base-line stats of enemies, you've likely forgotten something. When do you players ever roll baseline stats? You need to be as good as they are to find and use bonuses. Range, Aim, Autofire, surprise if possible.

Have them act more intelligently than just stand and fight. Spread out, take cover, lay down suppressive fire to pin them down (players HATE being pinned, and WP-20 is hard on anyone). Throw smoke, flank out and shoot the players from behind their cover, rendering it useless, and forcing them once more to move and take new cover (Pinned, read the rules).

Set scenes where there aren't just cramped quarters. As the GM, you can set scenes as you like, so don't play to your assassins strengths.

Also, ammo is not much an issue, given how cheap autogun ammo is. The Assassin in question has a backpack, and, in our current campaign, we've been on an extended mission into enemy territory (against enemies who are not using Auto-weapons, specifically to prevent the assassin looting them for ammo), and after half a dozen combats he still has nearly a hundred bullets left, not counting the fully loaded clip he's carrying around. So he's definitely got enough right now to see him through at least 7-8 more dead enemies, and we're probably nearing the end of this section of the campaign.

Even if he's got a reload, though, he's still got to...you know...reload. Standing around in the middle of a bunch of mooks with an empty autogun after three rounds of combat is a problem. There is a reason it's called " Dead Man's Click ".

On the point blank range thing, many of the fights that have broken out have involved either cramped quarters, where everyone is getting point blank range, or the Assassin's been sneaking around and essentially starting combat at that range. Going into melee would be a good idea (especially since our Assassin has fallen in love with his autogun so much that he has devoted pretty much all his upgrades to becoming a good ranged fighter), except for, again, the fact that someone in point blank range often very rarely gets a chance to make a move of their own, before they're reduced to a bloodstain.

Seriously? Rules mechanics aside, unless this guy is freakin' Batman, you don't get to sneak within three metres of people reliably . Especially since, as noted, you can't move up and fire a properly controlled full auto burst in one full action. Yes, you can make concealment to sneak nearer. Plus Silent Move to slip up behind them. However, when you're talking about sneaking literally within arm's reach of someone that should not be an unmodified test. An Ascension -level Vindicere or Death Cultist, yeah, I can see that.

Secondly, if there are three or more guys, firstly he's not going to be able to catch all of them in the burst, second, three guys watching each others backs is going to make it a lot harder to sneak up to point blank range.

Thirdly, remember this guy is "sneaking" around whilst carrying an assault rifle and a backpack full of hundred-round ammo tins. Surely this has to impact his sneakyness?

I will just note the amount of overkill he tends to get is quite frankly ridiculous. It's not uncommon for him to go on a full health enemy (our GM uses mainly "human" enemies so far, so around 10-13 wounds), with decent to average armor, and end up inflicting in the realm of 15-20 points of Critical damage to them. Part of this is undoubtedly due to him taking both Mighty Shot, and Crack Shot (I think Crack Shot's the one that adds +2 to Crit. damage rolls isn't it)?

I have no problem with this. A point blank full auto burst from an assault rifle, or a point blank shotgun blast, or similar, should reduce a 'normal human' opponent to so much chopped meat. Step outside rules and dice rolls, and think about it. You're essentially emptying a third of an assault rifle magazine into someone from a range so close they're going to have bloody powder burns on their clothing. They should be dead, and one of the things I like about the WH40k RPG is that it doesn't sugar-coat combat with modern weapons too badly.

Which is why having a few opponents with auto weapons or shotguns should help even things up. Remember that even Dodge+10 is only limited use against a multi-hit attack; if an attack lands two or three hits, he's got to pass his dodge test by two or three degrees to get away scot-free, and I'm assuming he's not wearing much in the way of armour?

Going into melee would be a good idea (especially since our Assassin has fallen in love with his autogun so much that he has devoted pretty much all his upgrades to becoming a good ranged fighter), except for, again, the fact that someone in point blank range often very rarely gets a chance to make a move of their own, before they're reduced to a bloodstain.

See comments about numbers. Assuming he ninjas his way into point blank range and rip-saws someone in half - hell, let's be generous and say two guys - if it's a 'squad' there can still be several more opponents who are going to be within a few metres. Commence the stabbing.

Though admittedly, the problem with the Heavy Stubber is that there's not usually anywhere for the Guardsman to brace it against.

You have only yourself to blame for looting the heavy stubber but not the mounting bracket...

That seems odd to me, though; there's cover enough to sneak up to >3m, but there's nothing solid enough to rest a heavy stubber barrel on? What's the environment like?

Equally, the wording implies a military(ish) setting - armies tend to be competent and sooner or later they will have open fields of fire, sentries, triplines and no cover.

Just want to clear something up. I am not the GM of this particular campaign. However, of our group I have the most experience with Tabletop RPGing (having run at least a few D&D campaign-- different thing I know), and so my GM often discusses these matters with me, and seems to value my input for how he can shore these things up. We've had very long discussions over how to balance out my Psyker to keep him from storming ahead of the rest of the party, despite the fact I've declared my intent to have him be a Templar Calix.

Right now the Assassin just happens to be the big problem right now.

On the point blank range thing, many of the fights that have broken out have involved either cramped quarters, where everyone is getting point blank range, or the Assassin's been sneaking around and essentially starting combat at that range.

I have problems with this. If "everyone" is getting Point Blank range, then your fights must be in an area smaller than my living room. PBR is 3 metres, that's nothing! In such close quarters, engaging in melee should be trivial (and devastating for your assassin).

To sneak up on a bunch of people is harder than just one, and especially if they're guards "Guarding" the area. Does he sneak up alone, far ahead of the rest of his team? If not, his teammates (which aren't as Sneaky) are likely to alert the guards. If he does, he will practically be alone in melee range of all his foes until backup arrives.

And even if he does sneak up on the baddies, he can only reliably take out 1 guy, before he should be swamped by the enemies.

Know the combat rules. You can't Move and Full Auto on the same turn. After the initial surprise attack, his position is known. If he moves in close, he should be stomped. Return fire, and melee chargers.

Play the opposition like you would play your own character in such a position. Let them use cover and concealment, let them use teamwork and tactics (suppressive fire, flanking, flamers and grenades to reach enemies in cover, etc)

Know your modifiers. Perhaps the guards have some gear to help them with their awareness. Photo-lenses, auspexes, extra training, etc. Have them Assist each other. Have debris and other things scattered on the floor, to make Silent Move more difficult. Chains and charms hanging from the ceiling, making noise as you try to move past/through them.

And why is there convenient cover less than 3 metres from you opponents, anyway?

Have them positioned so that they will have crossfire and be able to see each other. (The palace guards aren't all standing together in a huddle at the main gate, you know. They're spread out, on roofs and balconies, and positioned so they can see each other and any foes trying to sneak up on their mates.). Have a hidden guard or two, spying from out of sight. With a sniper rifle.

I dunno. Perhaps an example would help?

Sure. I can give you two.

Quick note on context: Our characters investigation has recently tied in with a rebellion on a Hive World. During the events, our characters ended up having to infiltrate through Rebel lines, and make our way through the ruined Hive City the rebels are using as a base, to try and locate the leaders of the rebellion, and get some answers out of them.

We'd been working our way through the Hive, had had more than a couple close scrapes, including the one with the fortification I mentioned above, and managed to find some workers building a barricade around a more central military installation. They were protected by three guards, or, at the very least, the guards were protecting a supply truck. We all basically sat back and waited (well. My Psyker waited, one of our guardsmen spent the rest of this time setting up a sniper shot), while the Assassin weaved through the rubble of the destroyed buildings and used both the ruins of the Hive City and the truck itself to cover her approach. The GM went ahead and took the opposed tests, but the guards noticed absolutely nothing. Then of course, the Assassin got into point blank range behind the guards, and just went ahead and opened fire at point blank range. The Guards were surprised, and thus, counted as Stunned for the round, allowing the Assassin to turn two of them into bloody chunks (first when she opened fire, then on her second round, while the other two guards couldn't react due to being stunned). The third guard was pelted by the sniper shot that the Guardsman had set up, drew a las carbine and took a shot at the Assassin which missed, and the Assassin then finished him off on her next round. The workers themselves were unarmed and spent that time fleeing. We managed to catch one and interrogated him, and then got out of there before reinforcements could shot up.

In the second example, we had finally located one of the two leaders of the Rebellion (admittedly the lesser of the two leaders), and made our way into his hideout. He made a successful awareness test while our characters were checking his room for any plans and information regarding several of the events that had happened prior to this (including the massacre of several high ranking noble families and the assassination of the planetary governor), as well as information on where the rebels were being funded from, etc. Anyways, he noticed our party, and demanded we come out. The character in question was flanked by two guards, one with a Shotgun the other with a lasgun. He himself was packing a hand cannon and chainsword-- considerably beyond our character's current gear.

He tried to get our characters to disarm themselves, and the Assassin made a successful Deceive test, to seem like she was offering her autogun to be taken from her, prompting one of the Guards (the one with the lasgun) to walk over to take it from her. Then she opened fire point blank on him, catching him by surprise and turning him into bloody chunks. This was, incidentally, an "elite" guard the GM had prepared with higher than average statistics, and better armor than the other ones we'd been fighting, which prompted him to complain about it. The Captain ended up being charged into close combat by one of the Guardsmen, and the other Guardsman charged the guy with the shotgun, essentially preventing the Assassin from being effectively attacked, and allowing her to spam her full-auto strategy throughout the whole battle. Granted it was into Close quarters, but the point blank thing still allowed her to perform just fine (sadly we failed to capture and interrogate the commander, as he chose to put a handcannon bullet through his own head, when he realized he couldn't win, rather than be captured by us).

So youre a psyker and an assassin is stealing your show.

Let me give you a piece of advice. Remember that fortification with heavy stubber, and the whole enemy outpost?

Stand in the corner. Cast Psychic Scream 3 times. Take your time, use invocation between casts. Go out, and mutilate the bodies.

So youre a psyker and an assassin is stealing your show.

Let me give you a piece of advice. Remember that fortification with heavy stubber, and the whole enemy outpost?

Stand in the corner. Cast Psychic Scream 3 times. Take your time, use invocation between casts. Go out, and mutilate the bodies.

The outpost itself was 100 meters away from us, so substantially over the range of Psychic Shriek. Not that it mattered really, at the time my Psyker was a rank 3, so didn't have access to Telepathy at the time. And still doesn't as he's only gotten his first Biomancy power (Bio-Lightning) as of last session. Which actually ended up being quite useful in the combat I mentioned earlier, up until I rolled a Perils of the Warp and got mind trapped.

Wait, i thought suprise ment that you could act while he simply could not, but afterwards they would. How shall i put it ...

After successfully sneaking behind the guards your Assassin fires his gun full-auto at the first guard. Since they have failed their Awareness Tests they count as suprised and can do nothing this turn. Number one gets turned into bloody chunks.

At the start of the second turn normal Initiative says who goes first. If your Assassin has the higher one she gets to shoot the second guard at point blank. If he has the higher he can simply get into close combat and (try to) gut her.

You don't get a free attack and stun your enemies for a second round.

Cudos in succeeding at that Deceive Test, while troubling for a GM it is good thinking on the Players part and should still get rewarded.

But the shooting into melee? I hope she never rolls into those 20% penalty or she hits her friends. And yes, even those can cause RF.

I don't think the latter example you gave is too big a deal - as you note yourself, firstly the combat must have started within...what? Less than ten metres of one another? - and as you say, if the guardsmen hadn't charged then things would have gotten messy (they're lucky the rebel leader didn't react faster than them). And "elite" or not, if the GM is being nice and restrained - some body armour, 5-10 point improvement in stats and some mid-tech weapons - you're still not at "immune to bullets" level, so a point blank full auto burst still has a decent chance of killing.

A BS45 (ish) character firing an autogun at point blank can expect about 4 hits.

Autogun is D10+3 damage, increased to D10+5 (effectively) by Mighty Shot. Targets are...err...call it 3 points of toughness and a point of armour (gang leathers or something), so it's effectively D10+1 damage. Throw in the statistics-distorting effect of righteous fury and you get an average of about 7 wounds per hit - which means two hits will kill most generic mooks (even if they have a couple of extra wounds).

The thing is, both of those examples involve letting you get to point blank range. The counter-argument to the second one is making the assassin drop her gun, with weapons levelled. The Deceive test is a nice idea, but must have been reasonably risky (unless she's got significantly increased deceive and silent move and concealment and dodge and all the shooting talents).

Equally, as previously mentioned, these are not significant numbers of opponents. Look in most of the missions I've seen and the opponents are something like "one-to-two per acolyte" when you want to give them a challenging fight. In both of these cases you were outnumbering the opposition - which generally means that the acolyte who acts first (i.e. assassins) will steal the show.

Playing a Moritat, I'm impressed that your Assassin has been able to sneak into pointblank range that often.

On the other he has killed messy in the Emperor's name, mostly because well, who do you shot 1st the nut job with the 2 blades or 3+ other people with Ranged Weapons.

But the simple answer to to put in at pointblank range with a good melee specialist

Swift Attack, Quick Draw, Lightning Reflex, and Rapid Reaction.

and the other thing is letting him find out about the horrible thing called Combat Shotgun at pointblank with someone with Rapid Reaction.