As I, and probably many others on here, keep on testing the Buzzsaw shuttle, I'm now opening up to some new shuttle ideas, using the same tactics that our resident expert Sable has so graciously bestowed upon us. I have had a lot of fun using this shuttle with a swarm of ties. But now I'm thinking I want to try and move a few more points to my swarm, and have similar fire power.

So I'm thinking the Fast Doom Shuttle would be something to try. This is:

Omicron Group Pilot

+ Darth Vader crew

+ Engine Upgrade

28pts

The perk of this loadout is I can still use the shuttle to flank, have some guaranteed damage from Darth Vader, and have 4 more points for the swarm.

The obvious downside is I put 4 more points on a ship that is slowly killing itself.

Is it worth it for 4 more points to give to my swarm? I'm not sure yet, tell me what YOU think.

Has anyone else tried putting an engine on a Doom Shuttle?

Current list with Buzzsaw is:

Howlrunner + Swarm Tactics

Academy Tie x 4

Omicron + FCS + Gunner + Engine Upgrade

100pts

I'm just worried about having no initiative bid for the PS 1 Academy Ties, so I want to make room some how. 4 pts could let me up 2 Academy Pilots to PS 3 obsidians, for 98pts, or 1 AP to BSP + DTF, Night Beast, Winged Gundark, for 99pt bid.

Decisions decisions. If anyone has any feedback, I'd much appreciate it!

That's tough. I think it all comes down to how much you expect to get out of Vader. Common doom shuttle tactics say "every shot" and others say "add gunner for 2x shot!". I fall in between. I played a ton of Vader's escort after the shuttle came out and loved it because there are almost always situations where 1-2 more damage would be helpful. But not necessarily every shot, and certainly never the last shot that dooms your own shuttle (unless it would ensure victory somehow). So adding 4pts more to your ship is a bad idea if you're going all out doom.

So it comes down to this: will those 4 points make up more damage than the points spent elsewhere? I say no. 4pts gets you backstabber over an academy pilot. One good round from him is 2 Vader shots. 2 rounds is ridiculous. Defensively those 4 pts could be a stealth and an init bid... Both worth something but less easy to quantify. So you might be getting a flanker for 4pts more but just upgrade one of your ties to do the job.

Not totally sure. But report back either way!

I have never found Engine Upgrade a viable or valuable upgrade on the Vader shuttle. Because your shuttle is dying quickly, you can't leverage the boost very well. Or you aren't using vader and are wasting those points instead. Over the course of a game, you're going to do more damage with the standard buzzsaw setup, though it is more expensive.

If you are going to go shuttle+vader, I don't advise using Engine Upgrade. That's the only situation in which I don't advocate that upgrade for the shuttle.

Actually, the place I would prune points in your current list is Swarm Tactics. Yes, having an Academy fire at PS8 can be nice, most of the time that's not going to have any significant game impact. If you want initiative, consider dropping Swarm Tactics for Determination. Howlrunner is already a big target here and discarding a crit is always sadface times for your enemies, especially if it would have killed her. That gives you 99 points.

Well, if this is the phild0 that was at the Pandemonium tourney this weekend, I'd say your original list was rather effective. But I could see how losing init could cause you some problems, since you really made use of the BR with the academies. I would almost think that dropping ST might be the best way to ensure init. I would think you would want 98 points since init is vital to your list.

Good points there. Thanks for the input. I can definitely agree with the points about using Engine with Vader.

I had considered Determination in the original setup, but never tried it. I think I'll give it a go.

The last setup I considered was removing Engine Upgrade from the shuttle and running the FCS + Gunner the same way Vader Shuttle is ran, generally bumping into the back of the ties, except I don't kill off the shuttle, which can be make the difference between a full win andIt should be good enough damage, but will lose any ability to get into the fight if it winds up out of position, same as a Vader shuttle might. This will also give me 4 pts. If I pull off ST, that'd be 6 pts. I didn't like this idea over actually having Engine Upgrade, so I axed it. I might give it a try though.

@Khyros - That was me, haha. And as I peruse the forums trying to figure out who you were, I see you're Jeff, correct? Good to meet your forum self! Good points about removing ST, I likely won't need it as much as init, as the APs really need to do their job blocking, and another swarm with APs will mess that up. Though, I assume a swarm would make an init bid as well. Could stop those pesky blocking prototypes! Also, it is not too common that 1 PS 8 AP + Howl will deal the finishing blow on a ship before it shoots, which is the whole purpose of ST. ST really works best in a swarm when it is chained or combined with some more high PS ties. I was mostly using it on my front most, or target locked tie to give it a shot before dying. Of course, an enemy can just take focus and target a different Tie.

What if you run Buzzsaw with

Howlrunner /w Swarm Tactics

Black Squadron Pilot /w Swarm Tactics x 3

This allows everyone to shoot at PS8. Granted you are losing 1 TIE from the mix, but moving late and shooting early might make up for it.

Or if you want Init, drop Swarm Tactics from a Black, and replace with Draw Their Fire for 99 points. This may add some protection for Howl in case a crit on Howl gets through.

@phild0, i was at the tourney as well this Saturday. I gave you props in my tourney debrief for winning with a shuttle.

Indeed that's me =P. Sadly you saw me at one of my worst days of flying in the past 6 months. FYI, RIW hobbies in Livonia is hosting a store champ on March 1st, just in case you're not reading the FB or SE Michigan forum.

Haha, nderstood! I assume we'll get some rematches sometime if I head down to your area again. I also think my dice were pretty great when i finished off Biggs in, what, 1 round? I think only 4 of the ties had a shot on him too, above average imo. I'll likely make the March 1st store championship, gotta try my hand in at least 1!

I tried out this list with a Fast Doom Shuttle:

Omicron + Darth Vader + Engine Upgrade

Howlrunner + PTL

Obsidian Squadron Pilot

Obsidian Squadron Pilot

Academy Pilot

Academy Pilot

99pts?

I played the Shuttle like I would the Buzzsaw, generally running him along the edge as fast as I could first turn, then after turning it in to the enemy, pulling 1 turn of 0 red before zooming around for another pass.

I was a big fan of moving points to protect Howlrunner with PTL, really saved her butt when she was being targeted. I did miss having the shuttle + 2 ties left at end game, which is the norm for evenly matched games with my Buzzsaw shuttle + swarm list. Instead I had Howl + 2 Ties, which was OK, but didn't feel as powerful.

Also, the Vader shuttle seemed to draw more enemy aggro than the Buzzsaw, as enemies want to leave the Buzzsaw for the last ship, but will go out of their way to kill the Vader Shuttle.

Overall, there are only 2 perks to putting the engine upgrade on the Vader shuttle"

1. He can be used as a flanker and turn around more easily.

2. You can use the boost to block, then turn around for another pass.

Both tactics I like, as well as keeping the vader shuttle behind the swarm, which is usual of the Doom Shuttle.

PTL also made Howlrunner an offensive threat without losing survivability, which I think is an issue when running swarms with less than 7 ties.

I think I like the Buzzsaw swarm more, though, as I dont kill off 28 pts.

I'm sure this has been said, but any points you put on a doom shuttle other than vader are points you're giving to the enemy.

The reason the doomshuttle works is most of the time you kill more than the 24 points the shuttle cost itself before the shuttle dies.

The issue I was having is, in theory, you are right about wasting points. However, I myself never got to test it and compare, nor have I seen anyone try it, so I was skeptical at it not being a viable option. It also let this particular list prune some points where I think they are needed.

Errr, where I think were needed to solve some issues, like no howl protection and no initiative bid.