Alright, gonna put this right out into the open right now.

I think they look stupid, and I always have.

Now, as for the actual game piece, I am excited to see them in action, but I'm also sort-of scared that we're going to see nearly unbeatable lists littered with them. Now I can't speak for any other pilots, but at it's base we have the durability of the Z-95 paired with 4 attack dice and 3 pilot skill for only (from what I can make out of a blurry picture...) 25 Points. There's no way for any other craft in the game to get Heavy Laser Cannon at this low of a price, and even more worrying, they'll be rolling 5 attack dice at range 1. You can see why I'm worried about balance in this game, even without it getting upgraded.

So, we're faced with a powerful flying glass cannon. My question is, how is this thing going to move? Because if it can Koiogran 3 or less then we might be a bit toast.

Discuss.

Considering FFG's track record to date, that doesn't worry me. This is the best balanced game I've played and I don't see them breaking that with the Phantom.

It's a fragile ship that starts at 25 points, what's there to be scared of?

I haven't seen the cards yet, but does it have shields?

I see them as an even glassier cannon than the ceptors. I suspect that bombs will work on cloaked ships, so empire on empire could see a lot more bombers, especially with the ion missile.

For my money they will probably not have a great dial and against rebels, with so many three attack die options, I would be very careful. Still it will depend on how the cloak effect works and how much it costs, if it is 6 or 7 points that is now a very expensive toy since I would happily go head to head with it in a b-wing or even an X. Without the cloak it would have to Beverly careful not to go boom quick.

@bob, yes two shields two hull two evade if memory serves. That is oneshottable pretty regularly by a focused three attack die ship.

@stelar7 , thanks for the info, and I would agree that it is definitely fragile and although it starts at 25 points I do not think it will be a balance issue. Like previous posts, I think that FFG has done a very respectful job keeping the game balanced. As we se future releases I suspect balance will be a major concern especially as the timeline expands where there are more advanced ships with better weapons and equipment.

What it really comes down to is the effect of the cloaking device. Can it be used unupgraded? Or do you have to pay more points to get the "cloak effect". And since that almost certainly takes an action, you will likely have to go without other modifiers to either your attack or defense rolls.

Well let's keep in mind we haven't even seen them equipped with systems upgrades ,or crew, or modifications yet. How about we throw Sensor Jammer on there and pair it with the included Recon Specialist, or a Stealth Device. Now we have a ship that's 32 points, but still rocking 4 attack dice that's going to be even trickier to nail down. I think what's hardest to factor in is what this Cloaking action, but it already can evade AND barrel roll, and Imperial players usually have a fairly firm grasp on those two actions already.

I'm just a bit skeptical of new things, but only because I don't know what to expect. Fear of the unknown is a perfectly justifiable way of feeling about these ships, since without more information we can't be entirely sure what is coming to us. I'm excited to face these things, but I'm also pretty cautious about it too. It's either going to be a regular in lists, or avoided like the plague.

It will definitely be interesting. Like most of the rest I trust FFG, they have done quite well so far.

What it really comes down to is the effect of the cloaking device. Can it be used unupgraded? Or do you have to pay more points to get the "cloak effect". And since that almost certainly takes an action, you will likely have to go without other modifiers to either your attack or defense rolls.

Indeed, out of all the things the x-factor seems the big question. A 2 agility ship with 2/2 hull/shield isn't scary, it's 4 attack might be (and 5 may be murder up close) but the cloak is the big question because that will likely have a big effect on survivability.

Though to answer your question; no it can not be used sans-cloak and yes it does look like it takes an action as it's on the action bar. Without seeing the rule though we have no idea if it costs an action every turn or exactly what it does. However, there is an Advanced Cloaking modification in that picture as well for Phantoms. So yeah it seems you can pay points for a better cloak, but you'll have a default one period.

Until we get more info on cloaking I'm not terribly worried. Otherwise you sure could have a 32 pt ship that might never get a shot off.

What we know is that the set comes with recon so its safe to assume that it at least requires a focus to activate and perhaps to maintain it. We also know based on the ship design that when it fires it then becomes visible again. While the cloaking device is activated I could see it reducing the attack dice of other ships by 2 until it fires again which in case would cost another focus to reactivate.

I think I mentioned this in a different thread, but thought I'd bring it up here as well. If I recall correctly, the Star Wars cloak, in the Thrawn trilogy anyway, had the problem of the cloaked ship not being able to see out of it very well. That could mean a reduction in attack dice when cloaked. That 4 isn't as scary then.

Fear of the unknown is a perfectly justifiable way of feeling about these ships, since without more information we can't be entirely sure what is coming to us.

That might be true a year or so ago. But now with 3 waves under their belts, what FFG is going to do is a known value, not a unknown.

They've more then proven so far that they are very mindful of balance. The Tie Interceptor and A-Wing didn't break it. The B-Wing didn't break it. Assault missiles didn't break it. Boost didn't break it. Advanced Sensors didn't break it.

So frankly we have zero justification in worrying about these ships because given FFG's track record it's safer to assume they will be balanced then they will be broken.

Be afraid. The imperials have been watching with our cloaked fighters for some time. We know your secrets, your tech... Ours is better. We have the numbers advantage, he backing of the people, and the celestial and near holy mandate from our glorious leader.

But in all seriousness, you should be afraid. 2 agility backed by a cloaking device that probably reduces attack dice against it, a stealth device, PTL backed by a recon specialist, and a sensor jammer for fun? And that's without knowing wha the new upgrades do. Cloaking device might straight up keep you from shooting at it at all (and it or being able to shoot back...until it wants to).

So be afraid Rebel {scum}... Be very afraid. We are coming for you. If we're not already there that is.

Every time FFG introduces something to the game it adds to benefit more play styles rather than a power creep. It's refreshing and I'm sure that will be the case here as well.

Be afraid. The imperials have been watching with our cloaked fighters for some time. We know your secrets, your tech... Ours is better. We have the numbers advantage, he backing of the people, and the celestial and near holy mandate from our glorious leader.

But in all seriousness, you should be afraid. 2 agility backed by a cloaking device that probably reduces attack dice against it, a stealth device, PTL backed by a recon specialist, and a sensor jammer for fun? And that's without knowing wha the new upgrades do. Cloaking device might straight up keep you from shooting at it at all (and it or being able to shoot back...until it wants to).

So be afraid Rebel {scum}... Be very afraid. We are coming for you. If we're not already there that is.

Your threats are for not, I already located the rebels in their hippie base and killed them all

i general putting loads of upgrades on a single ship doesnt work - the shuttle would be one of the exceptions to this as omicron+gunner+FCS+engine upgrade is actually very good - the difference is the shuttle is VERY durable and can take a pounding giving u time to get some reasonable use out of all those extra upgrades. on a fragile ship? it will be a liability and a waste of points unless as has been said the new stealth upgrade is viable.

Be afraid. The imperials have been watching with our cloaked fighters for some time. We know your secrets, your tech... Ours is better. We have the numbers advantage, he backing of the people, and the celestial and near holy mandate from our glorious leader.

But in all seriousness, you should be afraid. 2 agility backed by a cloaking device that probably reduces attack dice against it, a stealth device, PTL backed by a recon specialist, and a sensor jammer for fun? And that's without knowing wha the new upgrades do. Cloaking device might straight up keep you from shooting at it at all (and it or being able to shoot back...until it wants to).

So be afraid Rebel {scum}... Be very afraid. We are coming for you. If we're not already there that is.

Your threats are for not, I already located the rebels in their hippie base and killed them all

Glad to hear our communication systems are so advanced that even we aren't fully up on statuses.

i general putting loads of upgrades on a single ship doesnt work - the shuttle would be one of the exceptions to this as omicron+gunner+FCS+engine upgrade is actually very good - the difference is the shuttle is VERY durable and can take a pounding giving u time to get some reasonable use out of all those extra upgrades. on a fragile ship? it will be a liability and a waste of points unless as has been said the new stealth upgrade is viable.

Usually yes. We don't know how cloaking works yet so there is a lot of hoping for imperials and fear from he scum.

I think I mentioned this in a different thread, but thought I'd bring it up here as well. If I recall correctly, the Star Wars cloak, in the Thrawn trilogy anyway, had the problem of the cloaked ship not being able to see out of it very well. That could mean a reduction in attack dice when cloaked. That 4 isn't as scary then.

In Rebel Assualt II (the game where the Tie Phantom first appeared known as the V38) they had to de-cloak to actually shoot. That brings a simple limitation to the cload mechanic.

Just like people freaking out about the B-wing going to be wayyy too powerful, or the Lambda too good for it's cost - I don't think it's wise to assume the ship is broken.

If one of them gets close enough to roll 5 dice against a YT, it'll be the last thing it ever does.

But in all seriousness, you should be afraid. 2 agility backed by a cloaking device that probably reduces attack dice against it, a stealth device, PTL backed by a recon specialist, and a sensor jammer for fun? And that's without knowing wha the new upgrades do. Cloaking device might straight up keep you from shooting at it at all (and it or being able to shoot back...until it wants to).

So be afraid Rebel {scum}... Be very afraid. We are coming for you. If we're not already there that is.

In Star Trek Attack Wing (yeah, yeah, I know) a defender with an active cloaking device rolls 4 extra defense dice until they shoot. I'm guessing it will work more like that.

The scary part with empire getting glass cannon is is that you can screen them with TIE Fighters. 2 25 point phantoms, 2 Fighter, and howlrunner leaves 8 points for upgrades.