http://www.justanothersnakecult.com/x-wing-wave-4/

great info here if u havent already read it.

how do people feel about the costs of these new ships? balanced? too early to say for sure? i guess the movement dials will be the deciding factor in the end.

Definitely too early to say on most of our opinions. Before the Lamda was released I made a post that it was ridiculously under priced. Then it came out and I saw the dial and I think the price is spot on. I think that until we know what cloaking is, what special maneuver the defender has, what the dials look like, and what Pilot abilities are on the cards, we can't really from a solid opinion. Really unless we fly the ship we should all keep a somewhat open mind. Not that we can't form "initial impression opinions"

Edit: And that is a great write up

I think it's too early to say, the movement could really make the difference, and the higher skilled pilots could have very cool abilities.. we really need to see the finished product before any real discussion can make heads or tails of it.

I definitely think the Z95 will be strong in swarms but in a different type of swarm. they don't need the backup from Howlrunner because they have their own target lock. ... And there is definitely potential here for squad filler, which is a weakness for academy pilots in my opinion, other than to spread out incoming shots.

Getting a TL costs an action that the T/F would use to Focus. With Howlrunner's reroll that means a miss now has a 75% chance of hitting were just spending a TL is only a 50% chance. The TL allows the Zs to use missiles which is good but missiles still need to hit.

To me the potential in the Zs is as bonus filler/mini swarms instead of as full swarms.

I like ugly that can kill you dead. Helllloooo E-Wing...

I think the E-wing looks something like ...like...

Capitain Galaxys Amazing Adventures In Space!!!!

(I might start liking it)

Everyone has different aesthetic preferences. I personally like the E-wing and Defender models.

For me I like the way the rebel ships and phantom look, and I want to like the defender but think it looks too busy and gives me the feeling someone said "interceptors looked cool because of the pointy wings! How many pointy bits can we fit on a Tie?"

The Defender makes quite a bit of sense mechanically, They have panel coverage from most directions and the panels are angled in such a way that they don't block LoS unlike the Interceptor.

Exactly, RM. The Defender also has a lot more surface area for radiator panels, which makes the fighter that much more efficient and allowing more powerful generators which don't take up as much internal space as a larger one with equivalent power.

Personally, I think the statement that "fighter A is ugly" is an inaccurate one. It's more accurate to say, "fighter A looks ugly to me."

The difference is subtle, but crucial, as ugliness, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. Some people hate the E-wing, some people like it. Some people hate the TIE Defender, some like it. Therefore, the shape of a fighter, or anything else for that matter, is not inherently ugly, and by extension that is a non-issue on whether the fighter should be manufactured.

Try to keep in mind, when judging the TIE Defender, that there's that speculation about 150 points being the new standard

I hope so , the more ships on the board the better.

And of course, there are those who are able to figure out such statements are inherently opinions, and don't need it spelled out.

First post - and I have to say I really like all 4 of the wave 4 ships. I plan on getting at least 2 of the headhunter and one of each of the others. I'm extremely happy about a low cost ship for the rebels. I play the imperials the most as I like how the ships look. I feel that this release is going to do more with keeping the game in balance then making fans happy. I only get to play the game maybe once every couple of months and if they start releasing ships as fast as they announce them I'll be buying ships faster then I can use them.

2nd point. Disney announced that they will be producing a film 1 a year and thinks they can string this out for 40 years. that will be a lot of ship designs in 40 films. Just look at how many there are now with star trek and they have had like 8 or 9 films I don't really know, don't flip out. I stopped watching them after the saving of the whale.

Saving Free Willy is one of my favourite Trek films for some reason, ha ha.

Looks like we'll have to wait for more spoilers and see, I can see the sense of the E-wing and Tie Defender having no generic Elite pilots (4PS and higher) to prevent spamming these high costed ships loaded with EPS. Initially I see that the E-wing is a steal! An awesomely good and cheap upgrade from the X-wing/A-wing, basically a shielded Tie interceptor (I basically see it as a Tie interceptor with 2 shield modification upgrades, which is exactly that point increase interestingly enough) with really good upgrade options for a few points more.

However, the dials still have to be spoiled and the Unique pilots need to be shown. After looking at it more, I noticed that the E-wing have no boost, making only the A-wing and Tie Interceptor the only units with boost inherently built in and making me more curious about the E-wing's dial even more; it all depends on how you value boost.

Etahn's ability is pretty nice since he can also use his ability (Howlrunner cannot use her ability on herself, correct me if I'm wrong), very nasty against shielded opponents.

i ***** dont agree with uber prize costs of the tie phantom and the defender but yeah let me test it out before i put in my mind i think il buy just one of each

instead of buying 3 of each type like i did mostly cause i like to field 3 of each type or even collect to have 3 of each i will buy one of each new Tie in wave4

and i really hope that the other Tie Variants are not over 30 points either make them start with 20 and up to 30 thats ok but not 30 and up to 90 <----

I agree that at the get go, it seems that the republic do have a 'better bang for their buck' in the base stats.

for me this wave is uniteresting, my favorite faction is Empire and i don't see anything in this wave which will help with what i consider the biggest imbalance in the game namely that practically all Rebel ships are good stock and Empire ships are terrible stock except for maybe the Tie/LN, and that the Rebels have certainty(shields) and the Empire rely on probability(dice) to stay alive.and of course the Empire still has the most overcosted ships(Advanced,Interceptor) so adding more overcoasted ships which are fragile and require upgrades won't help.

Overcosted? A-Wing and HWK.

Try to keep in mind, when judging the TIE Defender, that there's that speculation about 150 points being the new standard

not standard, epic play which will be a tournament format . FFG loves to support multiple formats, and both will be supported going forward, whenever we actually hear the rules for epic.

Overcosted? A-Wing and HWK.

I have to say, I don't agree with the A-Wing being overcosted. It has the best dial in the game. Personal opinion, though.

for me this wave is uniteresting, my favorite faction is Empire and i don't see anything in this wave which will help with what i consider the biggest imbalance in the game namely that practically all Rebel ships are good stock and Empire ships are terrible stock except for maybe the Tie/LN, and that the Rebels have certainty(shields) and the Empire rely on probability(dice) to stay alive.and of course the Empire still has the most overcosted ships(Advanced,Interceptor) so adding more overcoasted ships which are fragile and require upgrades won't help.

There was a thread that asked about the competitive balance a week or so ago and I think the consensus was that they were pretty even, though I tend to think there's a slight edge for the rebels due to the B-wing (and advanced sensors).

The Empire certainty comes from their flying and maneuver, the ability to barrel role into better positions out of opposing arcs and into better position for their own. The TIE fighter is also the most effective ship for its cost and I'm not sure the Z-95 changes that, even though the rebels now have their own cheap fighter. I won't disagree that the Rebels do seem to have a few more options to blend in ships.

Overcosted? A-Wing and HWK.

I have to say, I don't agree with the A-Wing being overcosted. It has the best dial in the game. Personal opinion, though.

I'd trade A-Wing Stats for Interceptor stats. If the Interceptor is overpriced, so is the A-Wing.

Try to keep in mind, when judging the TIE Defender, that there's that speculation about 150 points being the new standard

not standard, epic play which will be a tournament format . FFG loves to support multiple formats, and both will be supported going forward, whenever we actually hear the rules for epic.

I for one love the E-wing and cannot wait to get my hands on all of the new ships, though knowing FF we will have to wait until around November before we see these.

2nd Q hahaahaha yeah right

Overcosted? A-Wing and HWK.

I have to say, I don't agree with the A-Wing being overcosted. It has the best dial in the game. Personal opinion, though.

I'd trade A-Wing Stats for Interceptor stats. If the Interceptor is overpriced, so is the A-Wing.

MathWing cost breakdown using Lanchester's Laws:

Start with a 12 point PS1 TIE Fighter. Give it a shield and upgrade a shield to a hull. Count shields as being worth 1.25 hull. The cost should go as:

12*((2.5+2)/3)^0.5 = 14.7

A PS1 A-wing costs 17 points, so the remaining 2.3 points is primarily paying for the better dial and boost. Gaining target lock and a missile at the expense of losing evade is probably worth a fraction of a point as well.

So is it worth it? Maybe, but probably not. To break even you'll need to use that extra maneuverability to force the enemy squad to be staring into space quite a bit of the time to break even on the points cost. The attack coefficient on the other squad would have to get lowered to something in the ballpark of (14.7/17)^2 = 0.72, i.e. you need to make about 28% (about 1 out of 4) of the enemy ships have no shot each turn. This assumes your ships can make shots 100% of the time.

So yeah, A-wings are probably overcosted by a point.

Interceptors have a similar story. 3 attack dice does, on average, something around 1.7 times the damage of 2 attack dice. This assumes that the 2 attack ships don't have access to Howlrunner's free reroll, otherwise it's more like 1.2x, and a pure low PS Interceptor squad is terribly outgunned vs a 7 TIE Swarm. Ignoring Howlrunner, so we can look at just the ship itself, the cost should go as:

12*(1.7)^0.5 = 15.6

A PS1 Interceptor costs 18 points, so the remaining 2.4 points is going towards greater maneuverability, and boost. Unlike the A-wing it doesn't gain target lock and a missile slot, although it keeps the evade. The attack coefficient on the other squad would have to get lowered to something in the ballpark of (15.6/18)^2 = 0.75, i.e. you need to make about 1 out of 4 ships have no shot each turn. This assumes your ships can make shots 100% of the time. Again, basically the same result as the A-wing.

So either both the A-wing and the Interceptor are overcosted by 1 point, or they're fine where they are. I am going to err on the side of them being overcosted, given their complete lack of representation as successful tournament lists.

TIE Advanced are overcosted by 2 points (or adding a built-in FCS seems to be a balanced way of keeping them at 21 points for PS2. That's kind of a different discussion, and that horse has been beaten to death in another thread.

What does this have to do with wave 4? Well, A-wings as a cheap missile platform will probably get replaced by Z-95s. A-wings as cheap filler will probably also get replaced by Z-95's, that are 5 points cheaper and 1 PS better. That means if you choose to fly an A-wing, you will essentially be paying 6 points to add one evade die, a better dial, and boost vs a Z-95. In a game where numbers are king, that is a very difficult proposition.

Interceptors will probably also be adversely affected by the wave 4 meta, although not by as much. Advanced Sensors + barrel roll is going to make its way onto another rebel ship with 3 attack, somewhat mitigating the Interceptors' maneuverability. Defenders are basically an over costed version of the TIE Interceptor. Depending how their maneuver dial and the evade token works, they could end up being very useful and making Interceptors completely obsolete (possibly but it looks unlikely), or they could just turn out to be over priced and the status quo will remain.

Phantoms might be the real Interceptor killer in the meta. That 4 attack is huge, so depending how well the stealth action can mitigate their damage intake, we could see them really put the hurt on. We still really have no idea on Phantoms yet, though.

The TIE Defender is one of the ugliest things I have ever seen. It makes my brain hurt. I think the Phantom looks beautiful. Z-95 is ok and the E-Wing looks terrible.

It will be interesting to see how these ships change the meta.