So are we going to see swarms of Z"s face off against swarms of Ties? Will quality finally trump quantity? What do you all think?

Frankly, this wave is introducing an entirely new metagame. Up is down and left is fish. Expect to see loads of experimentation for a while.

While they will be attempted I don't know that Z-95 swarms will be what T/F swarms are unless there are some major support options in there. The Z-95 probably isn't as maneuverable as the T/F and while it does have two shields protecting two hull points it only has 2 ability dice protecting those instead of the Fighter's 3. That may not seem like much but the T/F will have a lot easier time hitting the Z-95s than the Z-95s do shooting the other way.

With the rest of them I think we really need more information about them.

Etahn A'baht, Biggs, and as many Headhunters as you can fit, maybe?

I'm not convinced of the Z-95 swarm, sure they are cheap and you could field 8 of them, but with 2 attack, 2 agility and no evade token they wont last as long as a TIE swarm. The only advantage they have over the TIE is one extra HP.

I cant wait to see what pilots come with it, maybe some of their abilities will make them worth while....

Having said that, PS 2 may help out a little..

My guess is that it won't be all z's. Maybe like a mini swarm of 3 or 4 and then filled out worth other ships

It's very hard to predict how this will turn out. Aside from the Z-95, this wave of ships is extremely expensive with just the base costs of many of these ships coming in at easily 1/3 to 1/4 of your squad total just for the cheapest version with no upgrades. Obviously they are intended to be powerful but with the exception of the TIE Phantom's 4 base attack they do not outright exceed the parameter limits set by similarly priced existing ships. How will the 30 point PS1 defender compare to the traditional Bounty Hunter which comes in at just 3 points more? Is it worth spending 35-40+ points on a souped up Defender or E-wing? Is a 30 point defender worth using over a 32 point Royal Guard Pilot with push the limit, hull upgrade and shield upgrade? Will Z-95 swarms or mini-swarms actually work?

So many questions but until we get more info and/or the ships are out for us to play with, it's difficult to say

The high cost of three of the four ships is a serious factor in 100 point games. In epic play the cost may be easier to accept.

I'm not convinced of the Z-95 swarm, sure they are cheap and you could field 8 of them, but with 2 attack, 2 agility and no evade token they wont last as long as a TIE swarm. The only advantage they have over the TIE is one extra HP.

I cant wait to see what pilots come with it, maybe some of their abilities will make them worth while....

Having said that, PS 2 may help out a little..

Yeah, the rebel swarm is just different enough that it could be brilliant (with Etahn being their version of Howl) or it could be crap. Etahn just having to have the target at range 3 but not having to be in any range at all of the beneficiary sound scary and means initial placement and swarm formation is a lot more flexible.

It's very hard to predict how this will turn out. Aside from the Z-95, this wave of ships is extremely expensive with just the base costs of many of these ships coming in at easily 1/3 to 1/4 of your squad total just for the cheapest version with no upgrades. Obviously they are intended to be powerful but with the exception of the TIE Phantom's 4 base attack they do not outright exceed the parameter limits set by similarly priced existing ships. How will the 30 point PS1 defender compare to the traditional Bounty Hunter which comes in at just 3 points more? Is it worth spending 35-40+ points on a souped up Defender or E-wing? Is a 30 point defender worth using over a 32 point Royal Guard Pilot with push the limit, hull upgrade and shield upgrade? Will Z-95 swarms or mini-swarms actually work?

So many questions but until we get more info and/or the ships are out for us to play with, it's difficult to say

All good points, pretty much what I was thinking. With the defender I see it as possibly a sub for the bounty hunter slot but it all come down the dial and upgrades. It's going to be hard to beat a 33 bh with recon in a competative 100 environment. Would I rather have the defender on the table??..... Hell yes lol

It is going to be fascinating to see how the standard tournament scene develops. I totally see people trying to have 4 Phantoms work. There is a lot of new stuff that we don't know yet. We aren't sure how the new Pilots and Astromechs will affect things when the Transport is released. Will 3 Advance Sensor E-wings work? What do the Flechette Torpedoes and the new Modification mean for ordinance? Will the Cloaking mods for the Phantom make 3 a deadly combo, if you can still take 3? And what do all those shiny new Elite Talents mean for our elite Pilots?

Personally, I think by the time Wave 4 releases, X-wings and Y-wings are going to pretty popular. R7-T1 is going to rival Artoo as one of the most used Astromechs. And we still have the generic R7 in the E-wing pack, and 2? more unique ones in the Transport. I think Elite Pilots are going to be pretty good after Wave 4.

Expect to see a bunch of assault boats (Bandits with assault missiles for 17 points), biggs protecting said support ships, and many different support/squad leader type ships too. Expect to see 5-6 rebel swarms and other such goodies. Also, the PS3 phantom looks to be 25 points. Expect to see a 4 x 25pt phantom squad. That is 16 dice at R3. Nothing to be trifled at.

Z-95 sound like a Yugo version of A-wings, the thing that make Tie Swarms work is the way the addition of support ships add to their effectiveness. An A-wing list is fun as hell to run but lacks the closing ability you need to be competitive. Until we see what named pilot bonuses are leaked they will remain a white whale build....

I get the feeling they releasing the higher point cost ships along near enough with Epic rules... anyone think it is linked?

I get the feeling they releasing the higher point cost ships along near enough with Epic rules... anyone think it is linked?

That's what I'm thinking, too. Definitely compatible with current game, but will be easier to field in squads of more than 100, points. We won't really know until we see named pilot powers. There might be something game changing. We can only hope.

Frankly, this wave is introducing an entirely new metagame. Up is down and left is fish. Expect to see loads of experimentation for a while.

Fishmissile. Doesn't need target lock. On a successful hit enemy pilot dies of embarrassment.

I'm not convinced of the Z-95 swarm, sure they are cheap and you could field 8 of them, but with 2 attack, 2 agility and no evade token they wont last as long as a TIE swarm. The only advantage they have over the TIE is one extra HP.

I cant wait to see what pilots come with it, maybe some of their abilities will make them worth while....

Having said that, PS 2 may help out a little..

Maybe they'll rely on a good alpha strike will all those missiles to thin the enemy out. Closing might be slower with them but focusing down TIEs to deplete evade tokens might work. The big thing will be either a) will they get a Howlrunner-esque pilot to aid the swarm, or will that mysterious 'Wingman' card have some swarm-benefitial effects, either to attack dice or evade dice?

I get the feeling they releasing the higher point cost ships along near enough with Epic rules... anyone think it is linked?

To some extent I do but I feel they E wing & defender are a hybrid between falcon/ slave & X wing/ Int. while the have less hull/shields they are small and will maneuver better.

I get the feeling they releasing the higher point cost ships along near enough with Epic rules... anyone think it is linked?

Yeah, something tells me the new stuff is going to push the new formats and rules a bit. It will be interesting to see how, but frankly I'm just excited to be able to fly these new TIEs.

Side note, I think you can tell a person's childhood gaming by their opinion of the look of the Phantom and Defender. If they hate them, then they likely didn't play TIE Fighter or Rebel Strike II. Poor deprived souls…

I like the look of the Tie-Phantom I just would have preferred the Gunboat over it, however, the Tie-Phantom introduces some sweet new concepts. Wave 4, all in all, is a wicked group of ships.

Rebel swarm won't develop unless the rebels get a Howlrunner.

Etahn isn't equivalent to Howlrunner. He converts hits to crits. Howlrunner converts misses to hits.

Rebel swarm won't develop unless the rebels get a Howlrunner.

Etahn isn't equivalent to Howlrunner. He converts hits to crits. Howlrunner converts misses to hits.

However, Z-95 comes with a free Target Lock, so Etahn's ability might be more useful.

Also, Kyle, Garven, "Dutch", and Lando would like to have a word with you.

However, let's wait for the rest of the pilots to be revealed.

However, Z-95 comes with a free Target Lock,

Care to explain?

To me it seems like it has the TL action in the action bar. Like the X-Wing. Unlike the TIE Fighter. Nothing more.

Rebel swarm won't develop unless the rebels get a Howlrunner.

Etahn isn't equivalent to Howlrunner. He converts hits to crits. Howlrunner converts misses to hits.

However, Z-95 comes with a free Target Lock, so Etahn's ability might be more useful.

Also, Kyle, Garven, "Dutch", and Lando would like to have a word with you.

However, let's wait for the rest of the pilots to be revealed.

Those pilots don't help whole swarms, they only help,one other ship. Howlrunner helps the whole swarm.

What's this about a free target lock?

However, Z-95 comes with a free Target Lock,

Care to explain?

To me it seems like it has the TL action in the action bar. Like the X-Wing. Unlike the TIE Fighter. Nothing more.

I meant that the Z-95 comes with a Target Lock action, and needs the Howlrunner half of one less than the Ties do.