On a side note, I could see it being fun to play a game where you and your opponent choose 50 pts worth of ships, reveal and then pick the next 50 points and reveal, back and forth so as to counter each others ships.

I could see this totally being a good time

Yes that is how you try to fly interceptors. But it's not completely up to you as the other player using the falcon or one of his other ships on the board isn't going to just roll over and let you stay at range 3 taking shots at him. The point was that this strategy requires you to keep 1 particular ship (FW) alive long enough to get the final shot on a ship like the Falcon. That is not as easy as it sounds without flying FW extremely conservatively.

And I would argue that if the YT is getting taken out that fast, you either aren't flying it right, are incredibly unlucky, and/or you've taken out 2-3 of the enemy ships before you went down, one of them possibly being Fels Wrath before his ability was ready to let you finish of the Falcon in the fashion that Stone37 suggests.

One: I don't stay at range 3. I like to really get up in there.

Two: It's not like I'm saying that I'm specifically trying to save the last shot for Fel's Wrath.

Three: I am not losing my falcon too early because I don't fly it. At all. I don't fly rebels. I do, however, know a lot of good countermeasures for it; and I employ them to deadly effect. A lot. Doesn't always work, but I've killed them twice as often as lost to them, so I like to think I know what I'm talking about to some degree.

Also, I can't help but feel you're assuming some things about the Falcon, like it should be able to just kill everything each turn. Well you know what? Gunner doesn't do you jack squat if your opponent… lets you hit them. Yeah. I said it. See, something I do pretty often is this: get fired at by the Falcon, maybe it will roll some hits, 2-3. I usually have a token to evade with. But since hey, I'm rolling at least 3 evade dice (or more if I'm at range 3 or Stealth Device is attached) and i can cancel everything but one… and especially at range 1-2…. I'll just take the 1. Why give the opponent the chance to Gunner or Luke Gunner me? Bugger that, the known 1 is better than the next roll which might be 2 hits and a crit. Plus it usually still leaves me with an evade token for the rest of the round. And yeah, I use this strategy with any ship, not just Fel's Wrath/Interceptors. If anything it's better to do that way because not only are you taking minimal damage, but you're completely neutering the opponents build.

Lastly, Fel's Wrath is never the lynchpin of a build He's just a good ship to throw in there. Not only for his ability but also because in the heat of battle your opponent (or heh, at least my opponent) tends to forget that's him. He's not always actively aware of who is who or what they can do even though he knows the cards just because his mind is full of maneuvers and tokens and where he thinks I'll be and if he should Kiogran and bla bla bla. In fact, the last match I won was one like this. Soontril Fel (2 HP) and Fel's Wrath (2 HP) w/ -1 Agility crit vs. Luke with 2 HP. Soontir Fel was at extreme range 3 from Luke, but Luke and FW were jousting each other at range 1 just a millimeter or two away and passing on each other's right.

Me: "Well, looks like we'll have range 1 shots on each other now."

Opponent: "Pff, not if I destroy you first. You only get 2 evade dice. Then it will just be him and Soontir."

Me: "True, but I still get to fire. it's Wrath."

Opponent: "…….. Well F@#$."

So yeah. The ship is average, true. But making your opponent plan two turns ahead and forget the fact that he gets to fire anyway can be worth quite a bit. (Though Ironically it didn't matter because Soontir Fel rolled 3 hits on his range 3 attack and Luke failed to evade anything.)

My list of cards that I almost never see played:

R5-D8

R5-K6

Daredevil

Expose

Autoblaster

Saboteur

Although there are others that are uncommon (Weapons Engineer, Navigator, Dead Eye, etc), those six are the ones that I truly almost never see in builds.

I ran Daredevil on Vader with an Engine Upgrade and it was very impressive. Because it's a separate action, you can boost and hard 1 in the same turn (or barrel roll), and moving at 9, made him practically untouchable. Who cares if you only roll two attack dice if you're never catching return fire.

I do have a hard time imagining another pilot that it would be good on however, so it does belong on this list in general.

Rich

My list of cards that I almost never see played:

R5-D8

R5-K6

Daredevil

Expose

Autoblaster

Saboteur

Although there are others that are uncommon (Weapons Engineer, Navigator, Dead Eye, etc), those six are the ones that I truly almost never see in builds.

I ran Daredevil on Vader with an Engine Upgrade and it was very impressive. Because it's a separate action, you can boost and hard 1 in the same turn (or barrel roll), and moving at 9, made him practically untouchable. Who cares if you only roll two attack dice if you're never catching return fire.

I do have a hard time imagining another pilot that it would be good on however, so it does belong on this list in general.

Rich

I've used it on Tycho and Fel to great effect.

stuff

That one guy said:

Stuff in response to Jedi Moose's stuff

First of all, when i said "you", i didn't mean you specifically. I meant anyone flying the Falcon. Sorry if that seemed like a personal attack.

Second, I personally don't like the YT with a gunner. I agree with you about it's use and prefer to make my first shot count. There are better ways to build the YT IMO. PTL, Weapons Engineer, MF Title, and maybe nien Numb is one of my favorite ways to fly it. You get TL's that will last for 2 turns, plus at least 1 focus or evade every round, some rounds you will have a leftover TL + focus and evade. And as far as flying the YT, since you don't need to worry about lining up shots, you fly it behind other ships, out of their arcs, and as erratically as possible to keep your opponent guessing and avoid damage from multiple ships each round while at the same time dropping 3-4 attack which with the TL's Focus usually net multiple hits on a ship every round. Personally, every time I fly the falcon, it is always one of the last ships left on the board. I've never lost it in just a couple turns.

And finally, the falcon is not the only ship on my team. I always have 2 others that are working on picking apart the opponent as well or running interference for the falcon. So the YT is a serious threat that my opponent can't ignore, but he can't be so focused on the YT that he ignores the other ships either. I try to keep the falcon and my other ships on separate areas of the board so my opponent either has to split up his swarm, or deal with the shots from behind while he focuses on one or the other.

As for Fel, I don't think his ability is absolutely useless or will never ever be helpful, but for 2 points less i could take a Saber with no ability but with EPT, which is much more valuable on an int than Fel's ability ever will be...IMO. For 2 points more, I can take Turd Ferguson who has a much better ability and an EPT. And with Aces coming out soon, I really can't think of any time where Fels ability makes him valuable enough to take him over any of the other options.

If you like him though, use him. I'm just saying that I don't really see the value. Happy gaming.

Ok, I have to admit "Turd Ferguson" made me actually LOL

I need sleep

Ok, I have to admit "Turd Ferguson" made me actually LOL

I need sleep

Most people dont get the reference

Having just purchased the Firespray at last, I've thought about giving Expose a go. On first glance, it would appear to go best on a high skill pilot and given that the Falcon can't really avoid getting hit anyway, putting in on Han+Gunner sounds like it could be interesting in a high risk, high reward way (and with some diligence about when in the game to use it).

Having just purchased the Firespray at last, I've thought about giving Expose a go. On first glance, it would appear to go best on a high skill pilot and given that the Falcon can't really avoid getting hit anyway, putting in on Han+Gunner sounds like it could be interesting in a high risk, high reward way (and with some diligence about when in the game to use it).

Expose is, mathematically, not good. Focusing will give you more damage, on average. Alongside Gunner, that means Marksmanship or Recon Specialist to boost both attacks.

Without Gunner, wait for Opportunist. It is slightly less controllable (can't use against someone with a Focus or Evade token), and stresses you, but doesn't take your action for the turn or lower your Agility for the turn. It can also be used with Secondary Weapons, but only for 1 attack per turn.

Arvel and fel's wrath=pointless

i wouldn't go as far as to say pointless, but definitely very situational

Arvel and fel's wrath=pointless

i wouldn't go as far as to say pointless, but definitely very situational

I would have said "Not true. Arvel & Wrath = 46 points." But I'm having on of those days

Arvel and fel's wrath=pointless

i wouldn't go as far as to say pointless, but definitely very situational

I would have said "Not true. Arvel & Wrath = 46 points." But I'm having on of those days

Arvel would be substantially better with an EPT, Advanced Sensors, a lower Pilot Skill, or the ability to Boost/Barrel Roll into a collision.

As it stands, his ability isn't bad, just incredibly difficult to use.

Fel's Wrath is, thus far, the only pilot whose ability activates on Death. As such, he's overcosted if he doesn't die, which is counterintuitive to normal play. Since his death-based ability is a minor softening of the death-blow, it's not a sacrifice to be tactically made. He's a precedent for other pilot-death abilities that may actually do something, but it's still better to kill Fel's Wrath than to not.

His pilot ability is great in house-rule situations where you can assign him to a ship with Darth Vader on-board, but no-where else.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Elusiveness. It should basically read "when someone shoots at you, take a stress token", since that's essentially all that it seems to do. Has anyone used this and actually not had it do nothing more often than not?

Even looking at mathematically it seems pretty poor: take a stress token for a 50/50 chance of not taking a hit (or only 25% chance if your opponent focussed). Its even more useless if your opponent has a target lock.

Just to give it a fair chance, me and a friend each took it in a tournament. We each played 6 games and I used it about a dozen times (my friend used it a few less) and once he managed to have a hit re-rolled to a blank. The best result I had was a critical re-rolled to a hit....

This ability would be worthwhile if it read either:

A) receive a stress token to change one of the attacker's hit or critical results to a blank.

B) choose one of your attacker's dice. The attacker must re-roll it. If the re-rolled result is a blank, then you receive a stress token.

As it is currently worded, I think it is the worst EPT in the game...

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Elusiveness. It should basically read "when someone shoots at you, take a stress token", since that's essentially all that it seems to do. Has anyone used this and actually not had it do nothing more often than not?

Even looking at mathematically it seems pretty poor: take a stress token for a 50/50 chance of not taking a hit (or only 25% chance if your opponent focussed). Its even more useless if your opponent has a target lock.

Just to give it a fair chance, me and a friend each took it in a tournament. We each played 6 games and I used it about a dozen times (my friend used it a few less) and once he managed to have a hit re-rolled to a blank. The best result I had was a critical re-rolled to a hit....

This ability would be worthwhile if it read either:

A) receive a stress token to change one of the attacker's hit or critical results to a blank.

B) choose one of your attacker's dice. The attacker must re-roll it. If the re-rolled result is a blank, then you receive a stress token.

As it is currently worded, I think it is the worst EPT in the game...

Someone didn't see a combo... Consider the following fleet:

========================================

Captain Yorr

+ Fire Control System

+ Rebel Captive

+ Mercenary Co-Pilot

* (Can trade Reb Captive and Co-Pilot for Gunner, making Yorr more effective but more likely to be focused down)

[31]

3x Saber Squadron Pilot

+ Elusiveness

[23 Each]

========================================

If you Slow-Roll Yorr, on the Alpha Stroke you can trigger Elusiveness anywhere from 4-6 times (once per attack, 3 stress onto Yorr and one onto each Interceptor.) At that point, it's essentially a blend of Sensor Jammer and Flight Instructor, and decidedly better than a Stealth Device.

You always want to make sure that the lass Elusiveness trigger stresses the Interceptor Pilot, to keep Yorr as stress free as he can be. Interceptors shed stress well (2-4 forward and the 2 turns and banks are all Green), and have enough mobility to protect Yorr's flanks.

Rebel Captive ensures that they will be punished for shooting at Captain Yorr, and the FCS and Mercenary Co-Pilot give him some action economy while he remains inevitably stressed out for a substantial period.

Your strategy assumes though that his agility will keep him safe while you slow chip away from the falcon's 13 health.

Well yeah. That's how you fly ANY interceptor. And if the Imperial is focus firing the YT down like they're supposed to, then it won't be so slow. The average TIE swarm (6-8 ships) or Interceptor squad (2-3 ships) can be throwing anywhere from 6-14 attack dice at a 1-evade ship. Even if you roll an evade every single time you're still stopping 1/4 or less of the damage. In fact, in any game I've played where the opponent used a YT and I killed it, it was destroyed on the second or third round it was fired upon.

Yes that is how you try to fly interceptors. But it's not completely up to you as the other player using the falcon or one of his other ships on the board isn't going to just roll over and let you stay at range 3 taking shots at him. The point was that this strategy requires you to keep 1 particular ship (FW) alive long enough to get the final shot on a ship like the Falcon. That is not as easy as it sounds without flying FW extremely conservatively.

And I would argue that if the YT is getting taken out that fast, you either aren't flying it right, are incredibly unlucky, and/or you've taken out 2-3 of the enemy ships before you went down, one of them possibly being Fels Wrath before his ability was ready to let you finish of the Falcon in the fashion that Stone37 suggests.

Your strategy assumes though that his agility will keep him safe while you slow chip away from the falcon's 13 health. There is a very good chance that even at range 3 han can destroy fel in 1 or two rounds, before his health get's low enough for Fel to take him out. So unless you hide fel on the opposite side of the board and wait for the falcon to be on itrs death bed, I don't see it working the way you want all that often.

And what's more, in a tournament (or really in any game i play, even casual) you don't know what your opponent is bringing to the table and therefore if your strategyy will work on a big ship which they may not use. Sorry, I still don't see the value of Fels Wrath

You know, there is OTHER ways to play this game. 100 point tournament rules is only one way. I play 160 point team games with friends. Fels fits into this type of game.

Of course there are. I wasn't trying to offend or imply that their is only one way to play. Personally I don't play in tournaments, only with friends. My point was that no matter the format of the game, I think the vast majority of the players would agree that getting to change your build once you see what the other team is using is not fair. "O I see you are using the falcon, so I'm going to change my build to include 3 bombers with Cluster Missiles" is just not a fair way to play. So FW in your suggestion may be useful in certain situations and against certain ships, but most of us play in a way that we wouldn't be able to count on those situations/ships being used by our opponent. If that's how you play, that's fine. But it isn't the way most of us play.

On a side note, I could see it being fun to play a game where you and your opponent choose 50 pts worth of ships, reveal and then pick the next 50 points and reveal, back and forth so as to counter each others ships.

Only building half your fleet first IS an interesting idea. My group may try that.

Currently, we build fleets as the rules suggest, all at once. It is almost a given that the Rebels will field a Falcon of some kind because we are playing 120-160 point games. Going into a game with this knowledge, means the Empire must have a plan of attack from the beginning.

Honestly, there are at least 2 other Tie-Is I'd field before Fel's Wrath, but I won't call him worthless. If I'm fielding a second Tie-I and I have the points for him, I would probable pick FW over a lower SP common with no ability at all.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Elusiveness. It should basically read "when someone shoots at you, take a stress token", since that's essentially all that it seems to do. Has anyone used this and actually not had it do nothing more often than not?

Even looking at mathematically it seems pretty poor: take a stress token for a 50/50 chance of not taking a hit (or only 25% chance if your opponent focussed). Its even more useless if your opponent has a target lock.

Just to give it a fair chance, me and a friend each took it in a tournament. We each played 6 games and I used it about a dozen times (my friend used it a few less) and once he managed to have a hit re-rolled to a blank. The best result I had was a critical re-rolled to a hit....

This ability would be worthwhile if it read either:

A) receive a stress token to change one of the attacker's hit or critical results to a blank.

B) choose one of your attacker's dice. The attacker must re-roll it. If the re-rolled result is a blank, then you receive a stress token.

As it is currently worded, I think it is the worst EPT in the game...

Look at Ibtisam with elusiveness...

I haven't gotten a a wing yet but I'm surprised I never see anyone use dead eye.

Never hear much that about that

I thought to be able to exchange a focus instead of a target lock could be pretty deadly

Yes but only if a card instucts you to use a target lock, which if your using a card you need to discard (Missiles, Torpedoes) which most people try to have target lock and focus, when doing that.

It can be used OK with something like the Firespray that can carry missles and have a Recon Specialist... APT + Recon + Dead Eye can be deadly

I tried it a few times, and Deadeye is not worth it. I take Ptl now, does the same for APT and gives me far more options before and after I fire the missile/torp

Someone didn't see a combo... Consider the following fleet:

Consider it considered....and found somewhat lacking. Can you say that dropping either rebel captive or Merc Co-pilot + FCS to add PtL to each Sabre would not be considerably better? For a stress token, PtL actually gives a concrete benefit (second action). In your list, you are taking a stress token for what? The same damage as you would if you didn't force your opponent to re-roll ( because your opponent is going to get a hit most of the time - either because of luck, focus or TL on the attack ). So esssentially your list is about taking a bunch of stress tokens (sticking them on Yorr to mitigate that, granted) but for no real gain in durability on your sabres ( due to the fact that elusiveness does not actually mitigate damage ).

Look at Ibtisam with elusiveness...

Again, you are taking a stress token so that you can re-roll defense dice mostly (and occassionally attack dice when your opponent has lots of PS 7+), but the potential damage mitigation you gain from elusiveness is very small (Ibitsam's ability is actually slightly better statistically). Again, Ibitsam would be much happier with PtL because you are getting a definite advantage for that stress token.

I have to wonder if either of these examples have been tested? Has anyone tried to use elusiveness in either of these cases and has it actually mitigated any damage (meaning, has your opponent actually re-rolled a hit such that it did not just get changed back into a hit, either because the re-roll resulted in a hit, or your opponent just spent a TL or used focus to change the blank/eye back into a hit)?

As I said earlier, my experience (although limited and far from empirical evidence I admit) is that elusiveness does not actually reduce the damage you for 2 possible reasons:

1) physics: when someone picks up a die and rolls it quickly, the odds of it landing on the exact same face as before are much higher than the expected statistical chance.

2) core rules: the defender must use elusiveness re-roll before the attacker spends TL or focus. So even if you get lucky and turn a hit/crit into a blank/eye, more often than not your opponent has a TL or focus token to change it right back to a hit.

See my above post for suggestions on ways to improve this lacklustre EPT.

You CANNOT re-roll a die that has already been re-rolled.
Dies that have been knocked off of a hit cannot be target-locked back into one.
It's also best used against Critical Hits.

Also, I very much prefer Elusiveness to PTL for this list, because it allows me to concentrate my actual actions on offense rather than defense.

You CANNOT re-roll a die that has already been re-rolled.

Dies that have been knocked off of a hit cannot be target-locked back into one.

It's also best used against Critical Hits.

Also, I very much prefer Elusiveness to PTL for this list, because it allows me to concentrate my actual actions on offense rather than defense.

Ok I did not know about the only one re-roll per roll rule. Good to know, thanks.

And of course I realize its best used on critical hits (assuming you have no shields), but when you only have one or two hull left, you're gonna want to use it whether there are crits or no.

I don't see how Elusiveness allows your interceptors to concentrate more on offense than PtL would? With elusiveness, you get one action, likely focus if you're thinking offensively (or perhaps boost to get to range 1 - situation permitting). You can do the exact same with PtL: either focus or boost as your 1st action and take an evade token as your 2nd action that provides you with 100% hit mitigation as opposed to elusiveness' 'chancy' crit/hit mitigation (at best 50% chance of it negating a hit/crit entirely).

Well in my swarm today his 5 pilot skill worked out nicely, but Nightbeast didn't get much use out of his ability to get a free focus action with a green. Too few green maneuvers and when they did happen he wasn't really the prime target while enmeshed in the back of the swarm. Or he collided and didn't get to take actions since it's not a passive. Next to try: Winged Gundark.

You CANNOT re-roll a die that has already been re-rolled.

Dies that have been knocked off of a hit cannot be target-locked back into one.

It's also best used against Critical Hits.

Also, I very much prefer Elusiveness to PTL for this list, because it allows me to concentrate my actual actions on offense rather than defense.

Ok I did not know about the only one re-roll per roll rule. Good to know, thanks.

And of course I realize its best used on critical hits (assuming you have no shields), but when you only have one or two hull left, you're gonna want to use it whether there are crits or no.

I don't see how Elusiveness allows your interceptors to concentrate more on offense than PtL would? With elusiveness, you get one action, likely focus if you're thinking offensively (or perhaps boost to get to range 1 - situation permitting). You can do the exact same with PtL: either focus or boost as your 1st action and take an evade token as your 2nd action that provides you with 100% hit mitigation as opposed to elusiveness' 'chancy' crit/hit mitigation (at best 50% chance of it negating a hit/crit entirely).

Okay, for this fleet, let's assume both Interceptors use their Focus offensively.

The PTL INT will pick up an evade for defense, and will stress himself.

The Elusiveness INT has Elusiveness for defense.

Now, both Interceptors are focused upon by the enemy fleet of 4 X-Wings each! Oh no!

The PTL INT prevents 1 damage, thanks to the Evade token.

The Elusiveness INT prevents more than 1 damage, because Captain Yorr is sniping the stress from its activation, meaning he gets bonus defenses from every attack.

Therefore, the Elusiveness Ints force the X-Wing to either attack Captain Yorr to break the chain of defenses (stressing the first X-Wing to attack it each turn, while sinking several attacks into the high-hull shuttle) or to Focus every turn (as Elusiveness directly nerfs a Target Lock from the aforementioned "Can't double-re-roll" thinger.)

In either event, the X-Wing fleet begins to lose some of the action economy they would normally have, as focusing every turn prevents a TL+F attack, and the Stress from attacking the Rebel Captive produces a greatly reduced movement range (Green every turn, or your money back!)

Meanwhile, my fleet is operating exactly as designed, and is as happy as a clam that you're having trouble fighting it.

The hypothetical PTL INT fleet does not interfere with the X-Wingers play, and has a much more difficult time of winning.

Now, both Interceptors are focused upon by the enemy fleet of 4 X-Wings each! Oh no!

The PTL INT prevents 1 damage, thanks to the Evade token.

The Elusiveness INT prevents more than 1 damage, because Captain Yorr is sniping the stress from its activation, meaning he gets bonus defenses from every attack.

Aha! now we get to my contention with Elusiveness. See you are assuming that Elusiveness prevents more than 1 damage because of Capt. Yor's ability. However, I am saying that it won't prevent any (or maybe 1 if your lucky, and that's across all 4 x-wing attacks!). You see, what I am trying to say here, is that the re-roll you get from Elusiveness rarely (if ever) actually mitigates damage! Have you used this list significantly and seen your opponent frequently re-roll hits/crits into blanks when you use Elusiveness? Because I certainly haven't and as mentioned in my 1st post, I have used it over a dozen times (and only once did it change a crit into a hit - the rest of the time the opponent re-rolled the original result again).

So the most likely event is that the 4 x-wings attack the 2 interceptors and deal the same damage they would with or without you using Elusiveness (all you end up gaining when using it is the stress tokens - kinda harsh to pay 2 pts for an ability that gives you a stress token and you get nothing in return more often than not). Whereas having the evade tokens means damage is definitely mitigated because there is no uncertainty in an evade token stopping a hit.

Nightbeast ... collided and didn't get to take actions since it's not a passive.

You collided and skip your "Perform Actions" Step.

However, "Free Actions" don't happen in that step.

If Nightbeast performs a green maneuver and collides, he gets a Focus action anyway.

Too few green maneuvers and when they did happen he wasn't really the prime target while enmeshed in the back of the swarm.

...Why was one of the more offensive Ties in the BACK of your swarm? He's most at home in the thick of the fight.

Besides. Tie Fighters prefer being at Range 1 of the enemy, and the short maneuvers are what keep you in the "Furball".

For best Nightbeast results, fly right behind the Blockers during the formation stage, and once collisions start happening he ought to be Evading and/or Barrel-Rolling to stay alive, while using his Greens and free focuses to eat more expensive ships for breakfast.

Nightbeast gets a free Focus action whenever he does a green maneuver. That's basically Push the Limit in reverse (green to activate, instead of green to clear the stress to activate a second time), as one of the two will ALWAYS be a focus on a Tie Fighter.

Mostly because I had 4 academies and there wasn't really room to put them in a more lateral arrangement. I had to use some 5s to close the distance and I tried to get him towards the edge, but breaking 2 banks got blocked so I couldn't get the action. I thought that because it was "may perform a free focus action" he had to be free to take actions. If not wouldn't it be "place a focus token" or something?