If Quentyn Martell would be killed, instead attach Quentyn Martell to your House card as your only agenda with the text: "Unique [Martell] characters you control gain vengeful. Response: After 1 or more characters stand for vengeful, draw one card."

if Quentyn would be kiiled during a challenge, does he attach to the house card and the agenda take affect immediately ... thus allowing other characters to stand for vengeful?

Or would he only become effective as an agenda from the next challenge onwards?

I get a little bit confused here - this is a passive and a replacement effect, but doesn't the card still go to moribund until the action resoves?

The agenda takes effect immediately.

The vengeful effect and drawing a card is a response and as such can be acted upon immediately. If it were an 'any phase' or 'challenge' then things would be different.

I'll wait for someone else to confim - you might have a bias view!

I'll wait for someone else to confim - you might have a bias view!

Tough but fair !!!

The agenda effect is not available until AFTER the whole challenge resolves. It's just like when he dies normally for claim - he's dead immediately, but he is not physically placed in the dead pile until after all other passives, responses, etc. are resolved. Same thing here: he's dead immediately, but is not physically attached to your House card until all other passives, responses, etc. are resolved. Until he is PHYSICALLY attached to your House card, you have no agenda, and no active agenda text.

Said another way, no matter how he dies, he is still leaving play, which means he MUST go though moribund. As such, there is a brief window of time (all passives and responses to what killed him) in which he has been killed, but has not yet officially become your agenda. And until he officially becomes an agenda, he doesn't get his agenda text.

I've just seen the ealier thread for much the same topic

istaril said:

ktom said:

Oh, and BTW, even if it was some sort of save (it isn't, of course), that wouldn't change the fact that he doesn't actually become your agenda until Step 6. Even if you had been interpreting the timing wrong (you weren't), the outcome should have been the same. Since Quentyn starts in play and then leaves play (to become an agenda), he has to go through a moribund state. That's what "moribund" is. It doesn't matter whether he becomes moribund in Step 1 (because of a cost), Step 2 (because of a save or cancel), Step 3 (because of an effect), Step 4 (because of a passive) or Step 5 (because of a Response): If he starts in play, he won't physically go to his out-of-play destination until Step 6.

Good enought for me

if Quentyn would be kiiled during a challenge , does he attach to the house card and the agenda take affect immediately ... thus allowing other characters to stand for vengeful?

I just want to clarify something here. When you say "during the challenge", do you mean during one of the two action windows before challenge resolution? If so (this is how your question reads to me), he will leave moribund after the action that kills him (let's say Aggo's Bow) resolves and will be your agenda when the challenge resolves.

My question was for when Quentyn is killed as part of challenge resolution - not the player actions windows beforehand

Gotcha, just wanted to make sure as the wording seemed slightly ambiguous to me.