So we chalked up a loss to Cthulhu tonight - it was a particularly gruesome one, too, the kind of game that you know you've lost on turn five but keep playing anyway. Naturally, the mythos ground us down over the span of about three hours, to the point where Ashcan Pete was devoured by a Shan and we decided to call it quits, since pulling another character that was just going to be eaten by Cthulhu seemed pointless. We were plauged in this game by card draws that were completely useless - Milk of Shub-Niggurath, Voice of Ra, etc., etc., and it got me to thinking - there are kind of a lot of cards that are all but chaff in this game. Nobody wants to draw Milk of Shub-Niggurath when they could get an Elder Sign or a Gladius of Carcosa, but is that the point? I mean, are those cards in the deck to be intentionally useless?

I know not every item in the game should be a showstopper, or it wouldn't be much fun to play, but do you think the intent of the inclusion of so many weak items is to hamper the players? After all, there's only so many turns in a game, and every time I draw Camilla's Ruby it's a turn with almost no value. With how challenging some of the expansion GOOs are, is it necessary to handicap the player further with lame spells and one-time-in-a-hundred-times-useful items?

What do you guys think?

I think you underestimate the Milk myself. I can see a lot of benefit to someone taking the Milk to Velma's Diner, using it, and moving all of the monsters there.

As for the useless items, I only use the Dunwich and Kingsport exapansion, so there is actually relatively little chaff in my decks.

I think there are problems, but I'm not sure I agree with you about what they are.

For starters, Milk of Shub-Niggurath is currently my favourite item, because it's game-changingly powerful. Use it at the right time and it can get you out of just about any mess.

I'm still customizing the item decks, trying to come up with a 'cut' of each deck that delivers the maximum fun with the minimum chaff. What frustrates me most is when everyone draws their starting items and gets stuff like Handcuffs, Cigarette cases, Sedanettes and so on - instead of machine guns and rocket launchers and that type of thing. Obviously you can't get rid of too many of the useless items or it becomes too easy to get the good ones - but it's not like there's a shortage of ways to make AH more difficult if you accidentally swing too far that way, and there are plenty of items which can just be 'dead weight' for a whole game.

Right now I've got the common/unique decks cut so that there's only one copy of most items (except stuff that's deliberately multiplied up, like the elder sign).

Now, time for more controversy, as I start slagging off the spell deck!

The spell deck, I recommend doing the exact opposite with. If you're using most or all of the expansions, the spell deck needs to be edited pretty drastically, otherwise there's little chance of spellcaster characters getting any of the cards that they need in order to compete.

IMHO the spellcasting element of the game needs work. The rulebook describes spells as the things you will need in order to take on Arkham's most dangerous monsters (i.e. those which are physically immune), but for practical purposes you're much better off with Unique magic weapons. Spells like Dread Curse of Azathoth are powerful, but most investigators, if they're missing even one point of Sanity, can only cast it once before going mad. High-grade weapon spells aren't a very good investment because you can't be sure you'll have enough Sanity to use them - especially in Other Worlds, where a bit of 'collateral damage' to your Sanity is very common. The bonuses provided by combat spells are usually not so disproportionate to weapon bonuses as to make the Sanity costs worthwhile. Voice of Ra and Foresee are far too Sanity-expensive for the benefit they provide. Fist of Yog-Sothoth and Spectral Razor are nearly useless because they offer a low expectation of dice compared to just about any other form of attack.

All this means is that spells are a 'second-class' item. Hold on to them if you get them, but it's very hard to play in a spell-heavy way, and there are hardly any official investigators who can pull it off. Spellcasters need a whole 'toolkit' of spells before they can function effectively. The key spells are Mists of Releh, Markings of Isis, Storm of Spirits, Find Gate, Wither, and Shrivelling. What I've done is to cut out the extra copies of a lot of the other spells, re-balancing the spell deck strong in favour of that lot. Essentially I've turned those six spells into common spell draws and everything else is reasonably rare.

...it's worked ok so far, but stay tuned...

Solan said:

Agreed. It's come in very handy in a recent League scenario 4 game (where time in the streets lowers an investigator's max sanity each turn). Even better when one investigator drinks his milk (and takes an insanity card) while another plays his flute of the outer gods -- zap -- the sky and streets are cleared of monsters and you get up to 7 trophies. If you let Ashcan Pete work the train station (because the Curiousity shop is closed in that scenario), you've got a good chance getting them back for a future round too. Granted this combo doesn't come up often, but it sure can be helpful when is does.

The question is predicated on a particular way of viewing the game. In my opinion items are just random like the dice rolls. I tend to think of the game less in terms of puzzle-solving, and more in terms of a story. I think that items, especially weapons, are made too powerful anyway; the idea of killing mythos creatues by shooting them, for example, is a bit pants.

I like that the decks, especially the UI deck is diluted in terms of Elder Signs. Current combo includes all expansions except KH, so if I did my math correct, sending all 4 investigators to the Curiositie Shoppe on the first turn gives me a 50% shot of getting an Elder Sign (assuming normal 3 item draw, no Monty). Since the first turn (or first two turns, in case slow-mo like Vincent Lee is in the game) constitute 99% of my shopping, seeing 1 Elder Sign in a game feels like a blessing, whereas earlier games would regularly feature 2 even 3 in game, resulting in some very easy games. AH + DH combo, Azathoth sealed at 5 of 14 doom tokens (pretty sure that game had 3 ES). Nowadays, I know can't realistically hope for more than 1 ES, even getting one in a game isn't guaranteed. That means I have to work on actually getting Clues with which to seal gates with.

We were a little bitter at that last game, since everything we seemed to do was wrong (bad dice, bad draws, etc.) and we just couldn't get a break, and a little of that creeped into my post, I expect.

I have to stake ground firmly in the camp of the "re-vamp the spells" camp. Too bad it's unlikely to happen, but I'd love to see spells made so powerful they can really shift the balance of the game - at a much more severe cost to the investigator. Or instead of paying only Sanity to cast a spell, what about Stamina (blood magic) or some sort of material cost (monster / gate trophy, items, etc.)?

WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot said:

Isn't that what a good AH game is all about ? Overwhelming odds that just keep getting worse and worse.

oldthrashbarg said:

Glad to hear someone else express this opinion, though it seems at odds with your original statement.

I've considered either having all weapons exhaust after one use or giving all creatures at least Physical resistance (except moon symbol monsters).

We play with all the investigator cards.

Try playing a game without firing a shot. Grab a few Investigators with better-than-average Sneak--pick Wendy if you want an advantage--and any voluntary choices between a Combat Check and an Evade Check, you always pick the latter. Run away from everything, even Cultists. Keeping the Streets under control relies on closing gates, and lucky Mythos and Encounter cards. If you can't run away, of course, go ahead and Fight, but use your judgment: if you can get away from it, channel Shaggy and Scooby, and flee.

Relying on Spells and "chaff": like Tsathoggua, but with Weapons instead of Location Text.