I'm posting to state that I find it a bit jarring to see that the maximum of 6 is universal, and not tied to racial modifiers.

Why is it that a human can fairly easily be the same maximum brawn as a wookie?

Or, for that matter, why are the strongest wookie and the strongest human equally brawny?

Has anyone tried it with the maximums changed (so no matter what, you can raise each attribute by 4 over the racial modifier, perhaps, while still having it limited at character creation?

That way, having a 7 brawn wookie is doable, but you'd have to do it with the dedication talent.

Thoughts?

Would that cause serious problems?

How much Brawn do the monsters have? I think it's limited so dice pools don't get crazy big.

Haven't tried it.

Did have a brawn seven marauder (5 base, one dedication, one cyberarm) in a game. Functionally difference between brawn 5-7 was largely irrelevant (he still was tough as hell and one hit killed most things )

If you look at the Rancor in the core book, I'm pretty sure its Brawn is 6 too.

I'd consider going with base racial stats +3, rather than +4. I know that it's more limiting than the current ruleset, but it would make sense if you want to keep the dice pools down.

Hmm. Base +3 could work as well, I suggested Base+4 only because it would give humans the same range they have now.

I kinda like a 5 maximum. It's more elegant, somehow.

(Stupid Richard psychology fetishizing numbers because it happens to equal my digits.)

While I see your reasoning. I believe they did it this way completely for metagaming reasons. As others have said it keeps the dice pools down, which was a problem in WFRP 3e. Another reason is to not dissuade someone from playing a certain species or persuade a player to play another species in order for that character to keep up.

base +3 allows for extra bonuses to be accounted for like a cyber arm, now a human can only match a wookie if he has a cybernetic arm replacement.

i'm all for base +3 as a future rule.

i won't house rule it though, i haven't had anyone go passed 5 yet anyway.

You make a good point, but my guess is the way they've got the base racials setup up, while the dice pool maxes out, they are considering that a human could 'theoretically' be as 'Brawny' as a Wookiee, but not without significantly more work at it; note that Brawn is all physical characterisitcs, which a human at Brawn 6 may be more adept than a wookiee (perhaps speed and maneuverability, compared to brutish strength.) Brawn 6 is Epic level Brawn anyway, which would make you one of the strongest sentients in the Universe, per RAW, in the universe, wookiee or not.

Like I've mentioned in the other post, I don't think there's a literal translation for a particular characteristic; think of it this way - Brawn encompasses all your physical characteristics, from how long you can run, how long you can hold your breath, climbing, lifting, speed, and strength... So, while a Brawn 6 wookiee may be better at 'climbing and strength' a Brawn 6 human may be better at Cardiovasicular endurance, or how fast they can swing a Vibro-Blade. This can be seen with almost all the stats, another example would be Agility, which ties more to Hand-eye coordination, finger movements and balance. Duros may have excellent finger moving skills, but Bothans probably have better balance.

The system is very abstract with Characteristic definitions; I know many games give very definitive reasoning behind 'Attributes', but with Edge and 'Characteristics' the system is more open...

I do think, you're on to something here with a house rule if you want to create more definition to what each characteristic is; I don't see what you've created necessarily becoming a problem mechanically.

I think it comes down to what you believe as far as races go. On average, wookies tend to be stronger than humans, hence why they start with a higher Brawn. Now if you think that a wookie is always going to have the potential to be stronger than humans, then they should have a higher cap on Brawn than humans. But if you believe that any race has the potential to be just as Brawny (for whatever reasons) as any other then the cap needs to be equal across the board. I think the designers felt that while some races start with varying stats, they all have the same potential. So you could have a human that trains or through genetics can be just as strong as a wookie.

It's going to be nigh on to impossible to fully capture all aspects of physiology and the mechanics involved with it using 6 points as a representation. At some point one has to simply accept that fact and move past it. There are just too many variables to account for without getting bogged down in a hopelessly over complicated system.

In comparing Wookies, remember a Wookie will always have that +4 wound advantage as well, representing a higher bone and muscle density, so even in a 6 to 6 comparison the Wookie will always have the wound advantage.

I think a set stat cap that allows for the racial adjustments to surpass that is a decent house rule compromise.

what strength is superman? as far as i remember he's part of the extended star wars universe.

what strength is superman? as far as i remember he's part of the extended star wars universe.

Superman has narrative strength. There is no need to roll, he has as much or as little strength needed to accomplish his task.

what strength is superman? as far as i remember he's part of the extended star wars universe.

Superman has narrative strength. There is no need to roll, he has as much or as little strength needed to accomplish his task.

So brawn ∞

so what's his soak and wounds?

what strength is superman? as far as i remember he's part of the extended star wars universe.

Superman has narrative strength. There is no need to roll, he has as much or as little strength needed to accomplish his task.

So brawn ∞

so what's his soak and wounds?

That depends on which version, but I would suggest likewise narrative Soak and Wounds. Give him something like 20 Wound Threshold if kryptonite is involved.

I think the 6 is fine for all species.

The fact it is a natural cap is also alright for me. I can imagine there are are many more Wookiees at 6 than there are humans at 6 which is very reasonable. A young Mike Tyson, however, was easily as strong as a Wookiee.

So I guess for me it comes down to numbers of characters who fit said categories. A Human can easily be as smart as the smartest Drall exept the university will still have 20 Drall for every human in the top of their class.

I think it comes down to what you believe as far as races go. On average, wookies tend to be stronger than humans, hence why they start with a higher Brawn. Now if you think that a wookie is always going to have the potential to be stronger than humans, then they should have a higher cap on Brawn than humans. But if you believe that any race has the potential to be just as Brawny (for whatever reasons) as any other then the cap needs to be equal across the board. I think the designers felt that while some races start with varying stats, they all have the same potential. So you could have a human that trains or through genetics can be just as strong as a wookie.

I would instead, think that if a wookie is on average stronger than a human, that strength is going to bellcurve around the average, meaning that the maximums and minimums are also going to be higher.

The only example I can think of for a race where the maximum and minimum caps wouldn't also be adjusted is Droids, and that's because each one is custom built for the purpose, and if the droid becomes stronger, it's because parts of him have been replaced with stronger parts.

I'm posting to state that I find it a bit jarring to see that the maximum of 6 is universal, and not tied to racial modifiers.

Why is it that a human can fairly easily be the same maximum brawn as a wookie?

Or, for that matter, why are the strongest wookie and the strongest human equally brawny?

Has anyone tried it with the maximums changed (so no matter what, you can raise each attribute by 4 over the racial modifier, perhaps, while still having it limited at character creation?

That way, having a 7 brawn wookie is doable, but you'd have to do it with the dedication talent.

Thoughts?

Would that cause serious problems?

While a player could match a wookie, it's hardly likely anyone else would. Meaning that the numbers are reasonable and correct. Besides that, the wookie gets more than brawn, he gets wounds and a violent improvement to his combat abilities if you hurt him. Heck, looking at all the species, there isn't a huge difference between the different species.

Ref, "What ever you do, don't kick him in the nuts."

Boxer, "I thought anything goes."

Ref, "Yes, but that only makes him mad."

Aaaand have you read all the other threads about the issues of dealing with a high soak character? It is a concern. Do your other players mind if you lay down suppressing fire with a HRB?

Have you considered how useless that character would be outside of combat? The rest of the players would probably just call him "Ugly Mcfumbles", or "Stupid". Hopefully the player is smart enough to do absolutely positively nothing between fights.

I'm an optimizer by personality myself, and over optimized characters are rarely fun. Variety makes for more entertaining play. In Star Wars using a blaster is pretty important. Every character in my crew has an Agility of 3.

That's fine if that's what you believe. I don't think ot will break anything if you adjust for racial caps if you believe them relevent. I just don't see the need myself.

I would think that some of these huge monsters would have higher than a human's max...the stat trend just doesn't scale upwards very well in that regard.

@Mouthymerc: Fair enough. It just breaks a bit of verisimilitude for me that an average wookie is strength 3, but wookies and humans have the same maximum potential.

@UHF: You make a good point about the potential troubles of high soak. That was the sort of thing I was looking for when I started this thread. And yes, hyper minmaxed characters are less than ideal. But I'm not sure that is a good reason for "all races should have the same trait maximums." It could be a pretty good argument for "Racial Average +3 should be the cap," making wookies have the same cap, and most other races having the cap lowered by 1.

I would also be disinclined to allow a character to have an attribute maxed out at character creation, unless the group was starting with lots of bonus experience.

I like starting racial +3, I am going to implement this.

By the way, I think there is going to be a race (Suns of Fortune?) that starts with a 4, is this true?

Yeah hamsters (Drall) start with int 4

Yeah hamsters (Drall) start with int 4

Can you post them? they have one stat at 4, then two at 1 or something like this? How many xp do they start with?