Greetings Par'nar! Take this little filly for a ride.

Kath+ expert handling + rebel captive

Omicron + FCS + Gunner+ engine upgrade

Academy Pilot

Academy Pilot

2 highly mobile big ships and 2 basic academies to gum up the works. Kath becomes a hard target to prioritize with her captive, ability to shake TL, and barrel rolling a big base. Buzzsaw Hipposhuttlebus starts looking good and ties get largely ignored as flys on the beast's backside.

This build came out of poor performance of the FireBus builds against Multi Bwing and Dual falcon lists and answers those problems pretty well. Stressed Bwings and YT's are not happy. Outmanuvering both of these mobile squads is likewise frustrating.

I'm 3-1 with this little lady with wins vs. named tie swarm, dual falcon, and aabbx. My loss was the first time flew it vs. aabbx and ended with 2 wounded academies against an awing at 1 hull. Awing won but that is a vast improvement over prior FireBus builds vs. those squads.

Room for improvement Girl?

Little. In games that I have a rebel captive and expert handling I always want PTL and recon. In games where I have the latter, I find myself wanting the former. I'm not sure which Kath set-up is better.

It's a stampede!

To the Albino void Bison! Well, there is discussion going on about the merits of gunner vs. our troubled 1 Ag enemies. I'm on the fence. I like lining up a round of range 3 and/or an asteroid to get the same oomph and take less fire in return but it ain't easy. What other load out would you utilize?

Little dogies...

You have 25pts to work with... That's pretty much 2 academy pilots and call it a day. If you are keen to cut the gunner interaction you can upgrade one of these little fellas to Nightbeast. He's sure to grab some attention. Or there is always Backstabber. No one draws hate like this little PS 6 4 red throwing gunslinger.

Initiative or no?

I say yes. You want to know where the pale galactic buffalo should roam. Focus is always handy when you don't need to boost.

There it is. Watch out for them varmits!

I love Expert Handling on the Fire Spray. The big base makes the barrel-rolls that much better, and the rear arc with barrel rolls are even more awesome.

Looks like Brown Bombers list!! Haha.

Though, it is a good list.

I still wonder if it fairs better than how I've been using the Buzzsaw shuttle:

Buzzsaw

Howlrunner + Swarm Tactics

Academy Tie x 4

How do swarms fair against Dual Falcons? I know they do well against B wings.

Oh I agree Hrathen, I think I need a few more plays with it but when it's good it's just devastating. But if there is nowhere to go or no need to do it, I really miss double focus tokens + evade.

It is BB's list from the "combining..." thread. I'd been working on a Kath + Hipposhuttlebus build and his load outs seemed to fair better against Bwings. I felt it needed its own thread with that one getting cluttered, Sabel's flight school, and the discussion it' s prompting.

I should point out I am 4-0 with this list myself, facing various lists. I've tried all sorts of other combinations with Kath and just haven't found anything I like better.

If I were going to change anything, I would drop the two TIE Fighters and take another ship. Maybe an Interceptor or a bomber.

I ran this same list with one minor/major change instead of EH on Kath I went with Marksmanship. I know I sacrificed a lot of manouvreability but there was the odd time that MMS came in handy both to finish them off or get them stressed.

My want was a good 3 ship build too but with the points left there just isn't anything worthwhile. 2 acadmies do the job: blocking, bumps, and chip chip chip away. Like I posted before, I'd like to find 3pts for one of them to be Nightbeast but I'm just not seeing it. Kath needs one of the 2 set ups listed for defense and durability... So where do the points come from? Don't have an answer yet unless its move to 150pts and throw in another 2 ships while you're at it.

Kath+ expert handling + rebel captive
Omicron + FCS + Gunner+ engine upgrade
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot

the list is already strong. hard to make a change of ships but i guess those 2 academy could be something else as SableG suggested... but imo the academies add some valuable blockers so upgrading them might not b best for this squad.

if there is room for alterations it would be expert handling and/or rebel captive perhaps. PTL + recon specialists seems very strong but its trading expert handlings movement options which are considerable in the right situation.

100pts

Kath+ PTL + Recon Specialist
Omicron + FCS + Gunner+ engine upgrade
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot

having double focus + evade on Kath or double focus + target lock? im going to test this out and repost my findings.

Kath's load out seems mostly opponent dependent. You COULD look at a doom shuttle but what do you do with 8pts that is compelling? You COULD drop FCS + Gunner but same story. I don't think any of those changes are going to yield significant gains- the exception being getting one academy up to a Nightbeast or Backstabber.

That doesn't really change play much. Gives your opponent an "easy" target to focus on early and provides a little more oomph utility or offensively if hey don't get gunned down but I guess that could be nice so that you have a longer mid/end game with both ships at higher HP. Again, probably match up specific but not an overall "improvement". Even if you get both to "level up" it comes at a cost. Might be one more Bwing counter (dropping the gunner combo) for more killing power across 2 more ships).

RW - imo rebel captive+ expert handling helps more versus rebels as they dont have really agile ships with lots of green manouvres on their dial - this makes it really annoying for them to clear stress when they attack Kath AND easier for your barrel rolling to potentially get them in a bad position - against imperials who will always have ties unless they r a pure bomber squad and might even have an intercepter or two - rebel captive/expert handling isnt as good - u want me to do a green move to clear stress? sure watch this! B-Wings with stress really find it hard against this squad - as has been stated already by SableG i think -

another consideration is the pilot skills. Kath at 7PS is going to beat lots of ships to the punch and your 1PS academy pilots are just fine moving early (probably first) in the round as u can block wit them or just zoom about being a pain in the neck by chipping away without being the main threat to the enemy - as u say by upgrading them u might just be making them too MUCH of a threat and they will get targeted early.

One tactic i have discovered the hard way against falcon squads is keep ur ties at long range - that 4th agility dice really helps and u will often get in a hit at long range after they fire on u or something else (they will likey have used up any focos/evade by then as well) while at the same time u r staying undamaged or taking little damage - getting attacked at close range by a 3 attack dice ship with gunner or some other offense booster is usually fatal.

I agree 100% with Kath's load out vs. rebels and with tactics. Just throwing ideas out there in hopes of something else sticking too.

Kath+ expert handling + rebel captive
Omicron + FCS + Gunner+ engine upgrade
Academy Pilot
Academy Pilot

im getting better with playing this list - once u understand its weaknesses you can make better choices from placement of asteroids, placement of ur shuttlebus and timing your flanking actions. the 2 Academy Pilots really do punch above their weight if u use them cleverly and dont try to engage anything head-on or at close range where they can exchange fire with you (This will end badly for you) - manouvre them into flanking positions, hold focus for defense against enemy fire THEN use focus fire if u didnt need that focus on defense.

Blocking with the Academy Pilots for action denial when u need it is a handy option to have up your sleeve as well. Kath with barrel roll is formidable - even the threat of her having that ability might cause them to play u differently creating a 'oh crap what if Kath barrel rolls!?' loophole in their battle plans - Kath honestly feels like u r playing a Fat Tanky Tie-Fighter with 3 attack dice

I'm having a lot of fun with it and am hoping to get a few more rounds in vs. imperials.

What do you suggest for asteroid placement? I've been more focused on making good turn lanes for the pale manatee of the void which has a significantly different flight plan than a barrel rolling Kath.

I like the academy ties. If I can get in enough games I'd like to test one upgraded to Nighbeast but just thinking about what to drop to make up those 2 pts is rough (still have one left but sacrifice init).

Also hoping our musing inspire others to chime in. You, Sable, I seem to be carrying the testing and posting of some of these concepts.

Alright, alright, I'll respond.

This is a list I've been working on and flying for weeks now. Most of the points here cover my thoughts.

My favorite Kath setup is EH + Rebel Captive.

At least with my local group, they get really worried about shooting Kath soon, because they absolutely do not want to be stressed when my Ghostly Space Bison is anywhere near them because it means I can hound (cattle?) them. That means that Kath tends to be ignored early on. And she is the best closer in the group and a serious threat throughout. EH can be truly awe inspiring.

As for asteroid placement, I tend to place two near me. Just beyond 3 range from the sides and two range from my edge. This gives you a good lane through the middle and clears the flanks a bit. This also entices them to cluster the asteroids near mine to make a dense field, which is good. I send my TIEs and Firespray through the center and my Alabaster Moon Elk on the more clear of the two side for flanking. I'm good at flying asteroids, so I don't want clear lanes as cluttered often makes my opponent slower and more hesitant. I'm a very aggressive player with this list.

I don't want my TIEs to be anything but Academies or MAYBE Obsidians. Night Beast is the last one I'd take. He's a huge target. I MIGHT be convinced to take Dark Curse, as he hits decently and they'll be more likely to target the shuttle. I just don't see that as worth it.

The TIEs do their job specifically as blockers and as annoyances. When my other two craft are hitting with heavy force, it seems less important to take out the fragile, but weaker ships. I evade and use them to foul escape paths while throwing out 2-3 unmodified attack dice. They do their job admirably. Jumping either up to higher than PS3 seems foolish to me because it makes them less good at their jobs.

Honestly, this list is my tournament list at this point:

Kath Scarlet (38)
Expert Handling (2)
Rebel Captive (3)

Omicron Group Pilot (21)
Fire-Control System (2)
Gunner (5)
Intelligence Agent (1)
Engine Upgrade (4)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Total: 100

I've dominated my league utterly with it and I'm going to be taking it to store championships. I may change my mind later, but I've been tinkering on it for weeks now and I just am not happy with any of the compromises I've made to 'improve' it. Of course, alter it for your playstyle, but this fits me just right.

i often place my first 2 asteroids [ * ] in my own corners - 2.5 band lengths from the bottom edge and side edge. this gives u a 'free zone' ur opponent cant clog up any more asteroids.

i like to place the shuttlebus in one corner and the firespray in the opp corner with the ties in the middle. my plan is to flank with the shuttle from the side or boost to the far side and turn in behind them (its easier to flank them from the side tho).

i look for lanes east-west for the shuttle and firespray to take - its ok to slowroll the ties at the start to see how they are approaching you - its important that the shuttle gets into long range/medium firing distance at the same time ur other ships engage he enemies main threats. After the first rnd of firing u might be able to stall or creep towards the enemy with ur shuttle depending on what formations theyre in.

eg. PLACEMENT

[ ]

*

*

* *

* *

[ OP Ap Ap K ]

i wonder if wave4 will help this list. 25pts for an agile support fighter maybe?

Well... Tie phantom here we come...

Well... Tie phantom here we come...

hmm, both the black epsilon and sigma look interesting - have they released any new cheap system upgrades? i think PLT on sabre squadron could be as good... although it doesnt have the 2 shields

Doom shuttle starts looking a lot better when you're packing a phantom with stealth, cloak, sensor jammer, and a recon specialist or a ptl+ recon firespray. They almost have to shoot it. Who else are they going to shoot?

Luckily this build concept (2 high powered resilient bigs, 2 chippy gnats) survives wave 4. Might even get a new toy or two or move to an elite 3 build.

Report them battles folks!

i think the addition of Intelligence Agent to the shuttle adds something extra to the squad - iv noticed a few ppl running this - is it worth staying at 99pts for initiative or having the ability to peek at a key ships dial b4 ur ships choose actions??

I think adding intel is nice. You get the info and I think moving first with the shuttle has benefits.

i think the addition of Intelligence Agent to the shuttle adds something extra to the squad - iv noticed a few ppl running this - is it worth staying at 99pts for initiative or having the ability to peek at a key ships dial b4 ur ships choose actions??

I always take Intel agent, but generally I don't want initiative and that is literally the only 1 point upgrade I can add to this list. All of my ships have the ability to adjust their position after move (Boost for the shuttle, barrel roll for everything else). So I want to move second so I can more effectively fly. The Intel Agent is just a bonus (one I frequently forget to use).

i think the addition of Intelligence Agent to the shuttle adds something extra to the squad - iv noticed a few ppl running this - is it worth staying at 99pts for initiative or having the ability to peek at a key ships dial b4 ur ships choose actions??

I always take Intel agent, but generally I don't want initiative and that is literally the only 1 point upgrade I can add to this list. All of my ships have the ability to adjust their position after move (Boost for the shuttle, barrel roll for everything else). So I want to move second so I can more effectively fly. The Intel Agent is just a bonus (one I frequently forget to use).

For me, Intel Agent has a good use in this fleet. Don't forget that all 4 ships have a maneuverability action (3 Barrel Rolls and a Boost), so you can capitalize on whatever intel you receive. It maximizes your Academy's roles as Blockers, after all.

Well... lost one won one this week vs. bomber lists. The 1 win was on Kath's back. Not being able to target lock her in end game and getting to place after meant no gang up alpha. Poor shuttle took a beating. Loss was only because the shuttle did a total of 2 damage before dying and then Kath couldn't hit the broad side of a a capital ship in the end game. Should probably be 2-0.

Multi-bomber lists are nasty though. Going to break out my 3Gs+ list again after I tire of A Scarlet Cowgirl.

I'm thinking of trying this variant:

Kath + Expert + Rebel Captive+ seismic charge

Omni+ Engine Upgrade + intel agent x2

Backstabber

Academy

Or Nightbeast + stealth and drop the intel agents.

Both games against the bombers the buzzsaw combo didn't go off. This is the third game in the las 2 weeks were I got NOTHING out of the buzzsaw. Still gnarly when it works, just saying that droping it and playtesting deserves a look.