I really hate it when everyone sits around speculating which cards we'll see. It's especially annoying when people act like they are absolutely certain. It's rare to have anyone be right, especially when we start to guess what abilities they'll have. Just enjoy the suspense.

Gandalf is defiantly not ever going be be a hero. We may see him as a saga hero only playable in the Saga expansions but I highly doubt that as well. The card text doesn't specify that it has to be put on a hero.. only on Gandalf... we have seen character target attachments for a while, trait target attachment and ... .. . wait for it, even a Name target attachment..

This BTW will be the crux of the next super deck. Unless they errata it.. No threat cost to get the Vilya combo? Whhhaaaaaat?.. not really.. the discard from play is a problem.. but the attachment CAN target him.

Anyway... this is the same as it will be for Gandalf.

All the "hero" conditional text means that you get a +atk bonus for placing it on a warrior.. warrior == attack bonus... makes sense right? The response will still count on a Gandalf ally.

Gandalf is the hero for sure. Think about it... this is the part of the series where Gandalf is the most critical: getting the fellowship through Moria and holding off the Balrog. There's nothing more heroic than that. I wouldn't be surprised if there's something built into the quest that allows you to discard Gandalf to defeat the Balrog, to add some thematic play value.

With regards to the allies, I think it'll be Gimli and Legolas. We'll get new hero versions of them in the next box when they head off to Rohan so now is the time to get them as allies.

The art on Elrond is horrible, he looks like he should be holding a guitar singing folk songs instead of being leader of the elves.

Bilbo is great flavor. He quests and fetches pipes, but if you plan to use him in a fight you're basically throwing him under the bus. I like that they didn't try to turn him into a combat powerhouse.

The thing I'm most interested in are the encounter cards. I'm really curious how they plan to do Moria (again) in one single scenario including the balrog fight. We had 3 deluxe set scenarios and 4 AP's dealing with Moria and now it'll be compressed into one scenario? I'm not sure how that's going to work, although I'm glad they didn't try to overdo it and recreate the entire Kazad-dum cycle.

He just can be objective ally

Gandalf is defiantly not ever going be be a hero. We may see him as a saga hero only playable in the Saga expansions but I highly doubt that as well. The card text doesn't specify that it has to be put on a hero.. only on Gandalf... we have seen character target attachments for a while, trait target attachment and ... .. . wait for it, even a Name target attachment..

This BTW will be the crux of the next super deck. Unless they errata it.. No threat cost to get the Vilya combo? Whhhaaaaaat?.. not really.. the discard from play is a problem.. but the attachment CAN target him.

I'm not sure that paying 5 resources to get one card for free looks gamebreaking. Even with Sneak Attack it costs you 3 resources.

yeah, well I did say "not really"... but the point is that there is already a attachment that can use a name as a target.

Still this is the kind of thing that can feed into a combo deck.. if the right card gets printed down the line.

And will his starting threat be 16?

There is the precedent (sp?) with spirit Glorfindel. And there are stats differences betwen ally and hero versions of the same characters as well (Glóin, Bombur, Bilbo Baggins, Dwalin, etc.), so it is not sure if he will have 4 in wp, attack, defense and hp as his ally versions do.

And why not Gandalf as a Boon Ally? That is discarded when facing The Balrog.

Gandalf is defiantly not ever going be be a hero. We may see him as a saga hero only playable in the Saga expansions but I highly doubt that as well. The card text doesn't specify that it has to be put on a hero.. only on Gandalf... we have seen character target attachments for a while, trait target attachment and ... .. . wait for it, even a Name target attachment..

This BTW will be the crux of the next super deck. Unless they errata it.. No threat cost to get the Vilya combo? Whhhaaaaaat?.. not really.. the discard from play is a problem.. but the attachment CAN target him.

I'm not sure that paying 5 resources to get one card for free looks gamebreaking. Even with Sneak Attack it costs you 3 resources.

The combo is even better with Sneak Attack. It costs you three resources to get Elrond in play any way. So, 1 for sneak attack and 2 for Vilya is perfect. Plus you do not need to discard him. If you Drop Erebor Hammersmith and Good Meal in the deck you will be able to do it again next round if you have the resources or another sneak attack. As I said before having Stargazer to set up the top card, and Spare Hood and Cloak or Ever Vigilant to ready Elrond afterwards will make it even better.

This is definatly something I will try out, but unless I am running songs, it will take a Leadership, Spirit, Lore deck. Easy Sam, spirit Glorfindel, Pippin lore. Through in some Leaf Broochs and sneak attack will be free, so the whole combo could cost just 2 resources, for a real bargain price.

Gandalf is defiantly not ever going be be a hero. We may see him as a saga hero only playable in the Saga expansions but I highly doubt that as well. The card text doesn't specify that it has to be put on a hero.. only on Gandalf... we have seen character target attachments for a while, trait target attachment and ... .. . wait for it, even a Name target attachment..

This BTW will be the crux of the next super deck. Unless they errata it.. No threat cost to get the Vilya combo? Whhhaaaaaat?.. not really.. the discard from play is a problem.. but the attachment CAN target him.

I'm not sure that paying 5 resources to get one card for free looks gamebreaking. Even with Sneak Attack it costs you 3 resources.

The combo is even better with Sneak Attack. It costs you three resources to get Elrond in play any way. So, 1 for sneak attack and 2 for Vilya is perfect. Plus you do not need to discard him. If you Drop Erebor Hammersmith and Good Meal in the deck you will be able to do it again next round if you have the resources or another sneak attack. As I said before having Stargazer to set up the top card, and Spare Hood and Cloak or Ever Vigilant to ready Elrond afterwards will make it even better.

This is definatly something I will try out, but unless I am running songs, it will take a Leadership, Spirit, Lore deck. Easy Sam, spirit Glorfindel, Pippin lore. Through in some Leaf Broochs and sneak attack will be free, so the whole combo could cost just 2 resources, for a real bargain price.

Im doubt about that combo value. ...but who knows..... sound a bit make a lot for 1 card. There is other more effective ways. Still is depend on the decj

yeah, like I was saying the combo is defiantly there.. the question is if there is any valid targets for such a heavy investment in your deck slots.

With a leadership hero if you have the "perfect" opening hand.. you can get a very strong start... but with a leadership hero.. why not run steward and then you can just pay for the most expensive cards raw, and you only need to draw 1 card.. instead of 3 (not including stargazer).

There is Born Aloft allowing you to save him from destruction (I think elves and eagles will be a thing).. but again.. what targets are you looking for... for vilya? Remember you are dropping 3 resources anyway... most cards are not much more expensive. The costs in this game are fairly uniform.

This game doesn't really have "bombs" like many other games. Beorn hitting for 8attack is probably the only one, and 4 cost trackers. There are no **** off awesome 10 cost cards or anything like that.

I dunno.. it is fun to play with but I can not see this being a thing at the moment.. BUT it is something to remember.. if the right card comes out... . . . well that is how combo decks are born.

I just put together a rough deck idea for this Elrond combo in the deck builder, and it takes a lot of card slots to pull of, not to mention how long it might take to get the cards in hand. For all the cards it takes to set up, it leaves less and less room for allies in the deck, especially allies that are worth the cost of the set up. Might as well just pay for them next round. although it can always be game changing to drop an ally into play, but if you can not ready Elrond you pretty much just wasted his stats to bring in an ally that probably has lesser stats then him.

Here would be a cool opening hand featuring this combo.

Elrond, Leaf Brooch, Sneak Attack, Spare hood and Cloak, Vilya.

Sam plays Leaf Brooch, and then sneak attack to play Elrond and draw a card, Glorfindel and Pippin play Vilya on Elrond and boom it's Gandlaf Draw 3 more cards, ready Elrond with cloak from Pippin, and then quest for 13 will power on opening round.

Ah, the stuff of dreams.

hehe... We call this "Magical Christmas Land".. I think Even Erwin coined the term.... basically that crazy mythical, yet theoretically possible convergence of draws at the correct time

If it says attach to Gandalf or Hero doesn't that pretty much rule out Gandalf as a hero...(hoping for Legolas lore...) Maybe the attachment on Gandalf will have a different unique function in the expansion?

Its also possible there will be an ally version of Gandalf that says he can use hero attachments. I think its likely to be a misprint, though. I'd actually quite like a Gandalf hero, but it would be tricky to make without being overpowered, or too high a threat cost to be viable.

If it says attach to Gandalf or Hero doesn't that pretty much rule out Gandalf as a hero...(hoping for Legolas lore...) Maybe the attachment on Gandalf will have a different unique function in the expansion?

It says "attach to Warrior hero or Gandalf." We could still get a non-warrior Gandalf hero.

no

I just put together a rough deck idea for this Elrond combo in the deck builder, and it takes a lot of card slots to pull of, not to mention how long it might take to get the cards in hand. For all the cards it takes to set up, it leaves less and less room for allies in the deck, especially allies that are worth the cost of the set up. Might as well just pay for them next round. although it can always be game changing to drop an ally into play, but if you can not ready Elrond you pretty much just wasted his stats to bring in an ally that probably has lesser stats then him.

While it is a dumb combo - using 3-5 resources & 1-2 cards to get one you can use Villya in the refresh phase after Elrond refreshes before he disappears.

I just put together a rough deck idea for this Elrond combo in the deck builder, and it takes a lot of card slots to pull of, not to mention how long it might take to get the cards in hand. For all the cards it takes to set up, it leaves less and less room for allies in the deck, especially allies that are worth the cost of the set up. Might as well just pay for them next round. although it can always be game changing to drop an ally into play, but if you can not ready Elrond you pretty much just wasted his stats to bring in an ally that probably has lesser stats then him.

While it is a dumb combo - using 3-5 resources & 1-2 cards to get one you can use Villya in the refresh phase after Elrond refreshes before he disappears.

Well i was dumb enough to try it. I was able to pull off the combo a few times, but it was painfully slow, and when I did have it all lined up the top 5 cards that Stargazer arraged would often have nothing worth playing that could not be easily played next round, Occasionally I would get lucky and get something worthwhile, but for the most part this combo might be a dud. Although I am still intrigued by it, and will probably be dumb enough to try it again. Playing Vilya during refresh is a good point, I always forget about that window, so now you've added more fuel to my fire.

I'm not saying that we are most definately going to get a Gandalf hero (like you say we aren't), but just that Glamdring does NOT rule out the possibility.

I use the refresh window all the time in my elven deck to set up my draws for the next turn. That said, this combo isn't worth the pain or the payoff.

Everyone who is saying that there will "never be a Gandalf hero," ... Did you think there would be a Grima hero?

Everyone who is saying that there will "never be a Gandalf hero," ... Did you think there would be a Grima hero?

Quite true, although the barriers to Grima being a hero were purely thematic. Gandalf brings a lot of logistic baggage with him from a design standpoint

Yeah I predicted a Grima hero long ago in a thread around Khaz... I forget now, but my reasoning was that he was a major part of the Rhoan leadership.. so why not?

Everyone who is saying that there will "never be a Gandalf hero," ... Did you think there would be a Grima hero?

Quite true, although the barriers to Grima being a hero were purely thematic. Gandalf brings a lot of logistic baggage with him from a design standpoint

I respectfully disagree. It seems that a lot of people have built up expectations of Gandalf's immense powers, but in reality (in the books) Gandalf did little beyond inspire, lead, and organize. I don't mean to diminish him at all, but I can see him fitting nicely into a hero card in this game.

He is Maia, of course, but clothed in mortal flesh that tires and hurts like anyone else. He uses little of what we would call "magic" (in the books at least), but instead serves to guide, advise and inspire - and draw out the heroism in others.

Just as Bilbo Baggins defends better than Glorfindel (in the game), don't think purely of numbers. Think of Gandalf as a role filled within the hero lineup and I think there are a number of good ways to represent him in a card form.

The reason his numbers are so high for his ally form is because of his mechanics and theme. His ally form represents his ability to show up when needed most, help with whatever problem is at hand, then disappear at his own whim. There is no necessity for a hero form to keep the same stats or the same sort of mechanics.

Everyone who is saying that there will "never be a Gandalf hero," ... Did you think there would be a Grima hero?

Quite true, although the barriers to Grima being a hero were purely thematic. Gandalf brings a lot of logistic baggage with him from a design standpoint

I respectfully disagree. It seems that a lot of people have built up expectations of Gandalf's immense powers, but in reality (in the books) Gandalf did little beyond inspire, lead, and organize. I don't mean to diminish him at all, but I can see him fitting nicely into a hero card in this game.

He is Maia, of course, but clothed in mortal flesh that tires and hurts like anyone else. He uses little of what we would call "magic" (in the books at least), but instead serves to guide, advise and inspire - and draw out the heroism in others.

Just as Bilbo Baggins defends better than Glorfindel (in the game), don't think purely of numbers. Think of Gandalf as a role filled within the hero lineup and I think there are a number of good ways to represent him in a card form.

The reason his numbers are so high for his ally form is because of his mechanics and theme. His ally form represents his ability to show up when needed most, help with whatever problem is at hand, then disappear at his own whim. There is no necessity for a hero form to keep the same stats or the same sort of mechanics.

Gandalf would bring some baggage to be sure, but couldn't the same be said of Elrond? I like this explanation, that his ally is representative of his ability to show up when most needed. Gandalf would be a challenge, but I hope FFG doesn't back down from it, if not in this expansion then at some point.