So, am looking at Astrogation and Galaxy Mapper and I see that most of the issues that may come up with an astrogation check are already covered by the difficulty dice. What other sort of situations may give setback die for astrogation to make the Galaxy Mapper -1 sbd bonus useful?

+ mod. description

*** dmg/missing navicomp/astromech

* quick/emergency calcs

* ship slightly dmg'ed

** ship heavily dmg'ed

* outdated,corrupt,counterfeit charts/data

• Poorly mapped/charted destination or departure location.

Hmmm..... interesting. Below is what I have come up with for astrogation times perhaps in the first table I should drop the first row and make it give setback die instead, or upgrades for the last 2? Then increase the times in the second table to equal the times in the first table?

Setback die may have the effect of increasing the calculation time, so that may work both ways. The base calc shows a +1 increase in difficulty for outdated, etc maps, so I am not sure if the sbd way works with that being there (at least for this to be internally consistent with the main chart).

Drunk navigator... that makes sense.

Base Calculation Times

Choose most limiting: traveling from or traveling to

time example

1-3 rnds major/minor hyper lanes, inner rim, very current/complete maps

4-6 rnds mid-rim, slightly out of date/incomplete maps, a little off the beaten path

7-9 rnds outer rim, out of date//incomplete maps

10-15 rnds unknown space, no maps, no clue

Calculation Time Modifiers (traveling to)

time example

+1 rnd within system

+1-3 rnds within sector

+4-6 rnds within region

+7-9 rnds between regions

+9-12 rnds across galaxy

They really screwed with the parameters on the Astrogation chart. IMO, many of the things they have adding Difficulty should not do so, but should instead add Setback.

They really screwed with the parameters on the Astrogation chart. IMO, many of the things they have adding Difficulty should not do so, but should instead add Setback.

I agree with ya there.

I have to agree. Astrogation overall is poorly laid out. They've added difficulty dice where setbacks seem more logical to me. They've also created a talent that halves the amount of time it takes to get into hyperspace, but not told you how long that actually is.

They've left a bunch of general facts out. From my old West End days I know that you can't hyper in a gravity well, but it doesn't actually say that anywhere I can find, so a new player might never know this.

I am looking @ the Beyond the Rim astrogation stuff and that is a bit confusing and seems to conflict with what is in the Core Book:

Perhaps have the modifiers upgrade the check instead of add more difficulty die, which may seem a little extreme and painful, but perhaps not unduly so?

Fixing it like this does not answer my sbd question, an even makes it more difficult to answer.

The second line seems completely inconsistent with the other 2 lines, unless I am missing something:

or perhaps something like this:

Astrogation Base Difficulty (how well it would have been mapped)

This may model things a bit better at least in light of the Beyond the Rim info.

What do you think?

Looks all right, I'll have to double check - and check with the SoF astro difficulties presented in one of the modular encounters.

I made a slight change to the Astrogation Modifiers.

Wow. I think that's quite a few upgrades in there.

So, suggestion time Not that I don't like your idea, it's just that I'd prefer a different take on it.

So based on the above, I'd perhaps do the following, for my own peace of mind

Here goes:

Modifications to base difficulty

When it comes to your downgrade for taking longer time, my take on that is that if they have enough time to plan it properly - which should rarely be the case - I probably wouldn't require a check, or reduce it according to how they narrate and describe how they go about it.

I gather that I'm pretty "generous" with the suggested number of setback dice, but I'm just trying to paint a picture of how I'm thinking, there's no need for 4 setback dice if the difficulty is high enough, like Daunting... no one needs another 4 dice on top of that, so then reduce it. All depending on how important it is, what their chances are to start with. I mean, it's supposed to be fun and engaging, not mean and punishing but still appropriately difficult.

AS a note while I am looking through your changes which look interesting, when I put ' near major hyperspace routes (core)' I am really meaning ' near major hyperspace routes or in the (core)'. Core was not so much meant as a modifier for major hyperspace routes.

You could have someone who is in the Core , but is still off the beaten path, so it was not really mapped still triggering a 3 difficulty base with maps that are still recent so no basic sbd modifier

Everything I have written in these tables is as brief as possible since I am putting this together for a ship action sheet.

Yeah, I see your reasoning, but for some reason I'd prefer the age of the data to be what sets the difficulty rather than adding setback dice. Of course then it becomes an issue when there is no data (unknown space as you call it), but I'd put that at 3 difficulty - too old data might be worse than no data (not counting the upgrades of course), considering black holes, a nebula, super nova and what not might have been in the path of the systems movement.

I'm going to test this tomorrow most likely - if I get my players to do what I want, as if that's ever going to happen... if it turns out to work terribly I'll let you know.

I look forward to hearing your results.

If you too much time and have chance, could you put forward mine as well.

I will be very interesting in hearing the results.

Good luck to your group! =)

Also, part of my reasoning was looking at what was done in the Beyond the Rim adventure which uses sbd for out of date maps. I was trying to put together a system that made sense there, even if the base stuff in the core is sort of messed up.

I prefer not to "codex" things into absolutes with things like Setback dice, but this does lead to a larger question. Since so many of the Talents deal with removing Setback dice, do other GMs think this is a suggestion that they should be finding excuses to use Setback dice as often as possible? My players have already noted that many of the Talents seem "worthless", as they only come up occasionally, and even then, Setback dice might not apply, making some of them just an XP sink to get to the next useful Talent.

In my games, I tell my players that I'm going to be finding ways to add Setback AND Boost dice to almost every major dice roll, and I invite them to help (they're usually better at finding ways to add Boosts, of course)

Thoughts?

@StrayGeologist You could find out what skills and talents they have then come up with a table of possible reasons for setback dice. You could even start a thread on it too, so everyone can benefit from it.

OK, I have completely redone this and I think I have it down.

I moved the base astrogation checks discussion over to a new thread.

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/98715-making-sense-of-astrogation/

"Drunken Navigator"... What about Boost Die for a drunken Navigator ? Like the Way of the Drunken Master in Kung Fu?

"Drunken Navigator"... What about Boost Die for a drunken Navigator ? Like the Way of the Drunken Master in Kung Fu?

Pash: "Where the fugg are we?"

Oskara: "You don't know ?!"