Hi all! Recently I posted a couple of topics asking for advices and tips on some squads. You've all been of great help and made me realise one thing: I suck...

I not only suck at the game but also at squad building.

Seems like I try to shoot everywhere forgetting about ships/pilots synergies. So it most often then not results in poor squads and ideas shattered

Now, i'd like to know how you effectively build a squad from scratch.

- Do you choose one "main" ship and build around it?

- Do you try to field as much ships as you can?

- Do you go with your favorite ships and pilots and try to make them work together?

Whats your first step in squad building and how to you process after that?

Many thanks and may the pewpews be with you!

Seems like I try to shoot everywhere forgetting about ships/pilots synergies. So it most often then not results in poor squads and ideas shattered

Imperials don't really have that much synergy in the way of abilities. Most of their stuff i would say is "selfish" to the ship it's on. They have a few, but not nearly to the degree that the Rebels have.

I am going to assume by your statement that you always play Rebels?

When i put together my Imp squads i first ask myself, do i want quality, quantity, or try a combo of both.

Quantity is easy...how many TIE's can i throw on the board before i run out of points?

Quality is tough, especially since my version of a quality Imp ship is relative to yours. I find i lose a lot more than i win with these squads.

Combo is the one i usually end up doing. 1 or 2 quality ships, and fill in the rest with as many TIE's as i can.

Ex. Quantity.

Academy Pilot x8 or Academy x4, Obsidian x 4

Ex. Quality

Krassis /w HLC and Gunner, Soontir /w PTL and Stealth, Dark Curse /w Stealth

Ex. Combo

Bounty Hunter /w Recon Spec and Seismic, Turr /w VI, Academy Pilot x 3

I build an interesting combo first, then fill in the point-gaps with ships first and upgrades second.

Sometimes, that "interesting combo" is inspired by a specific pilot, or from upgrade interactions, or from pilot interactions, and sometimes it's from specific ships regardless of the pilot (e.g. I want to build an XXBB fleet).

Either way, I build extra ships first, permanent upgrades second, and disposable upgrades last (e.g. I'll always give X-Wings an Engine Upgrade before I give them Proton Torpedoes, unless my "Interesting Combo" required them).

The reason I do this is because having more ships that are weaker depend less on the favor of the Dice Gods.
If I take 5 damage on one Rookie Pilot of 4, it doesn't hurt my overall fleet as badly as if I take 5 damage on Wedge Antilles with Opportunist and R2-D2 and an Advanced Proton Torpedo and an Engine Upgrade, and they were theoretically as easy killed as each other.

I don't really have a set process. It usually starts with a general idea/combo. I usually want to have 4 ships for Rebels and 5+ for Imperials, but that does kinda depend on what the idea is and how fragile I think it is by itself.

I wouldn't say I like the idea of a "main" ship, because that generally means that if that piece is killed the list falls apart. I generally prefer to have several ships that are good on their own and then maybe have some mutual synergy after that. That way, no matter who dies, the list should still work to some degree all the way up to the end, if it comes to that.

That being said, I do sometimes say "I want to play XXX character" and then start by putting whoever that is and getting up to my ship limitations (again 4 for rebs, 5+ for imps in general) using whatever basic ships I think could compliment and go from there, adding upgrades/upgrading pilots etc as I go. It usually takes me a few revisions to get to something I like, then it goes to play testing..

I tend to start with a concept and go from there.

Like say I want to do missiles, so I figure out how to make a couple A-Wings work well with those. Or else I think B-Wings and figure out what I can do with a B-Wing list.

Then I'll use Void's bulider http://xwing-builder.co.uk/build to come up with a list, then try it out. When it fails horribly I try to figure out what went wrong and what I can do to fix it.

List building is IMO like Deck building more of an art then science, so it's not something that can be taught easily. Best thing is to come up with ideas and ask for feedback here, and try to understand Why something does or doesn't work.

Another big part of it is knowing the upgrades and what they can do. You can be amazing at finding synergy, but if you can't remember what 80% of the upgrades and pilot abilities do, you're going to have trouble finding many option that work.

I really only build rebel lists, but I want 3.5+ ships in all of my lists. I consider the large ships 1.5 and the HWK .75, and the A wing .8. So HSF = 3.5, XXXX = 4, XXXH = 3.75, XXXAA = 3.6. This keeps my killing power about equal across all of my builds, though it does hamper my build process quite a bit (a bit of restriction might be a good thing since there are so many ways to get to 100 anyways).

From there, I typically start with 4 Rookie X wings, which brings me to 82 points. So I'm really only building 18 points. The A wings are typically switched in if i need a few more points (which also means prototype is the #1 used A wing for me). 18 (+21 = 39) points is enough for a kick @$$ pilot, or two moderately upgraded pilots. From there, I look at what do I want to do with the squad. If I want Wedge, there go 8 of the 18 points. I'd probably then put PTL+R2 on him, and now I'm left with 6 more points. For those points, I could change a rookie over to a Dagger (3 pts) and then put AdvS on it (3 pts), and my squad would be:

Wedge w/ PTL + R2

Dagger w/ AdvS

Rookie

Rookie

But then the first thing I start questioning is "how would this squad fly with/without init against PS2/4 squads?" In this case, it wouldn't fly too well without init since I don't really have an incentive to TL anything, I don't have any large bases that I'd want them to clear out the area first, so losing init means that I can get action denied, and there's only 1 AdvS in this fleet, so that would be a big deal. I then decide I want init, and how do I go about doing that? First thought would be to drop the R2, but that is really needed to keep PTL effective. So then I could drop the dagger down to a Blue, but now I have 3 PS2 ships, which I try to stay away from. I could also downgrade to a FCS, but I've come to like AdvS over FCS for the 1 point. So then I would think about dropping one of the Rookies to a Prototype pilot. This opens up 4 points (3 because I want to keep init). With those 3 points, I could add a stealth device to the prototype, but his main purpose is to action deny, and he's unlikely to be a high priority target anyways. So then I would probably upgrade the rookie to a red. I could either leave it at 98 or add a R5/R2 to the Red Squadron, depending on local meta. So, my squad now looks like

Wedge w/ PTL + R2

Dagger w/ AdvS

Red w/ optional R5

Prototype

I go through the same questions - how does this squad line up against other PS2/4 squads? Answer: I'm likely to get init, so I shoot before all of the PS2/4 pilots. The prototype will move first, so he can't be action denied, the dagger has advS so he can't be action denied. Wedge shoots before Turr w/ VI (its popular in the local meta, and a pita to kill). Are there any glaring targets? Answer: Wedge, but do I want to do something about that? If he dies, I'm still left with two heavy hitters, and due to his high PS, he should still get 2 attacks off. I'm okay with him dying first.

So, that's my general process for how I create a rebel squad. Often I'll end up with several squads out of one general thought process. A sister list to this would be to replace the Red w/ R5 with Biggs. I sacrifice init, but now it doesn't really matter since my only PS2/4 has AdvS. Now I have two similar lists to try out to see which one seems to fly better.

Wedge w/ PTL + R2

Biggs

Dagger w/ AdvS

Prototype

Concerning Quantity VS Quality VS Both it's been clear to me since day one. I'm a combo type of guy. I like quality ships, which I tend to choose first in my list and fill the rest with generic ships for the quantity aspect.

What I have a hard time, at least that's my conclusion since every squad ideas I post seem to be lacking something or not take advantage of others. So most of the time "my" squad becomes "your" squad if you know what I mean.

I read a lot of build posts around here and other places and I see many builds that use the same upgrades. Like the Shuttle with Engines is a must, Kath with this, Falcon with that...I always want to do differently, maybe too differently?!!?

Maybe I should just try stuff and see what happens...and fail lamentably in the process

my best piece of advice would be to make your most offensive ships your most defensive. That way your enemy has no good options.

Maybe I should just try stuff and see what happens...and fail lamentably in the process

I personally have found that there really is no "wrong" answer. Sure, some stuff works better than others, but you would be hard-pressed to find a game that doesn't have a few combos that rise above the rest.

It also takes into account your skill to maneuver the ships around the board. Dice may be the luck factor of the game, but moving the ships is all on you (and guessing where you think your opponent will go). Practice flying whenever you can. I remember setting up a slalom of asteroids, and trying to move in-between without crashing. Tedious, but you will learn how ships move.

Maybe I should just try stuff and see what happens...and fail lamentably in the process

I personally have found that there really is no "wrong" answer. Sure, some stuff works better than others, but you would be hard-pressed to find a game that doesn't have a few combos that rise above the rest.

It also takes into account your skill to maneuver the ships around the board. Dice may be the luck factor of the game, but moving the ships is all on you (and guessing where you think your opponent will go). Practice flying whenever you can. I remember setting up a slalom of asteroids, and trying to move in-between without crashing. Tedious, but you will learn how ships move.

Jan w/ PTL

Lando w/ only higher PS pilots

Dutch w/ Blaster (and no other support to get a Focus)

GSP w/ SL and 3 Reds/Daggers

Kyle w/o Recon or MC

Garven w/ only higher PS pilots

Y wing w/ Stealth

Anything (except possibly Dutch) w/ R5-K6

Anything w/ R5-K8

Anything w/ Expose (blah blah blah, Vader can use it well... Math says otherwise)

Anything w/ Deadeye but no missiles/torps

Anything that normally has a barrel roll w/ Expert Handling

Daredevil w/o Boost (either innate or via EU)

Anything that normally has TL w/ Targeting computer

Blaster turret w/o a second action

Roark + Wedge w/ VI + Han w/ VI (4 points to ensure Init!)

Saboteur + MF title + EU + Recon Spec + Expose/EH (or really any combo of those)

Saboteur x2

Navigator x2

YT/HWK w/ Shield when Chewy is still available

YT w/ Gunner x2

YT w/ Gunner + Luke

DTF on a primary target (Wedge comes to mind) w/o R2D2

And this is just what I've thought of in the last 5 minutes, touching really only the rebels. Given there are exceptions for a few of these (I've seen a relatively successful dual YT list where they both had DtF so they'd stay at approx the same health throughout, and I built a list the other day that was 98 points, with no slots left to put 2 points, where I would have put in a targeting computer just so I wouldn't auto win init since I didn't want it). My point - there are plenty of "wrong" answers.

I was referring more to ship combos than i was add-ons to those ships. Somewhere in there, i would hope common sense would kick in and remind you, "Uhh yeah. that is dumb."

I was referring more to ship combos than i was add-ons to those ships. Somewhere in there, i would hope common sense would kick in and remind you, "Uhh yeah. that is dumb."

You assume too much.

Hehe, I just thought of an even better one... Kyle w/ SL

I was referring more to ship combos than i was add-ons to those ships. Somewhere in there, i would hope common sense would kick in and remind you, "Uhh yeah. that is dumb."

You assume too much.

It is a flaw of mine...

Hehe, I just thought of an even better one... Kyle w/ SL

That depends a little on what he's with and if he has a collection of Focus tokens saved on the Moldy Crow. Not totally useless but certainly NOT something anyone should ever recommend.

While I agree with most of your list of "unusable" things a few of them could be used although they are normally very poor choices. I also guess they may not work well mathematically although they could still function (blaster turret).

Correct. There could be niche uses for some of those. I gave the example of DtF being on both ships. Expose can be marginally useful, if it's run on Ibby, in a squad with Dutch and Garven, so she can Expose+F+TL. EH does give you the remove TL, so even if you have a BR, it could be marginally. Taking multiple action upgrades on the YT can provide you with options. And if you have a SL / Lando / PTL (for some of the combos) you could even make use of multiple ones at the same time. I gave an example of why one might take a targeting computer on a ship that already has Target Lock action. And I suppose the droids could potentially fill the same niche, where you have 2-3 points left, but no EPT/mod slot left... might as well take the droid (though it could be debated that R2 or R5 would be better anyways). And yes, if Kyle has SL and MC+Recon+Ion, it would be possible, especially with Garven, to focus for the first 2-3 turns, and then give out his action and a focus. Actually, I kinda like that now that I mentioned it... too bad it costs 34 points.. Not worth it.

The second problem of some "great" ship ideas... they just cost too much. Maybe if there was a limit on the number of ships so raising points doesn't just mean more ships the higher cost could work but that requires changes to how things work.