Hi all, was watching star wars again, lol, and noticed that some characters have flaws, where they have abilities that would be lower then the standard starting score.

If i wanted to penalize my self, why cant i sell a score of 2 and downgrade it to a 1 and gain 20xp.

for example, i want to play a human boy, why can't i reduce my brawn to 1 to show im less strong because im not fully developed.

or i want to play a retarded gungan named JarJar with intelligence 1.

etc.

So what do people think, should we be able to "sell" our abilities for xp so that we can make more interesting characters (maybe limit it to a 1 time only thing to prevent abuse)

example character could be a child named Annikin who has bra 1, agi 4, int 2, cun 2, wis 4, pre 2

Go for it if it works for you. I've thought it myself, and the cost for selling a stat is pretty clear based on the cost for buying one.

We did it.

Seems fine.

Limited it to dropping one Characteristic by 1 and gaining that difference in XP.

It allows for more customized characters.

Weird that its not included in the rules.

I'd allow one Characteristic to be dropped by 1 as well. Seems like a decent way to represent diversity within a species.

I'd be ok with it, if it made sense and the player wasn't just using it as a way to min/max.

This house rule has long been suggested and refined. I like the idea of gaining half XP of the "cost" of the given characteristic.

In rules format this would look something like this: The player may reduce a given characteristic by 1 (to a minimum of 1) in order to gain XP equal to 5 times the original rank.

For example: Wookiees have 3 Brawn starting. But say you wanted to have a Wookiee that was weaker than his friends. Reduce Brawn to 2, and give him 15 XP (3*5 = 30*.5 = 15). Or if you wanted to have a Human that was dumb as rocks, reduce his Intellect from 2 to 1 and give him 10 XP (2*5 = 20*.5 =10).

In contrast to giving a straight "characteristic cost" (as if the base characteristics had been purchased with XP to begin with) this is a much more balanced approach and prevents one from simply re-designing a species (and mitigates the power gamer in all of us) while still giving something to the roleplayer in us who just wants an interesting character.

While giving full XP might be a bit strong, giving half XP is really a bit weak to me.

This house rule has long been suggested and refined. I like the idea of gaining half XP of the "cost" of the given characteristic.

In rules format this would look something like this: The player may reduce a given characteristic by 1 (to a minimum of 1) in order to gain XP equal to 5 times the original rank.

For example: Wookiees have 3 Brawn starting. But say you wanted to have a Wookiee that was weaker than his friends. Reduce Brawn to 2, and give him 15 XP (3*5 = 30*.5 = 15). Or if you wanted to have a Human that was dumb as rocks, reduce his Intellect from 2 to 1 and give him 10 XP (2*5 = 20*.5 =10).

In contrast to giving a straight "characteristic cost" (as if the base characteristics had been purchased with XP to begin with) this is a much more balanced approach and prevents one from simply re-designing a species (and mitigates the power gamer in all of us) while still giving something to the roleplayer in us who just wants an interesting character.

while i see what your doing, its too complex, i think keeping it at may reduce 1 stat by 1 and gain xp equal to the original ability score x 10

a wookie with brawn 2 should have 30 extra xp to work with, they loose a lot of benefits doing it

making it a 1 point max reduction, only useable 1 time is limiting enough to balance the problem.

This house rule has long been suggested and refined. I like the idea of gaining half XP of the "cost" of the given characteristic.

In rules format this would look something like this: The player may reduce a given characteristic by 1 (to a minimum of 1) in order to gain XP equal to 5 times the original rank.

For example: Wookiees have 3 Brawn starting. But say you wanted to have a Wookiee that was weaker than his friends. Reduce Brawn to 2, and give him 15 XP (3*5 = 30*.5 = 15). Or if you wanted to have a Human that was dumb as rocks, reduce his Intellect from 2 to 1 and give him 10 XP (2*5 = 20*.5 =10).

In contrast to giving a straight "characteristic cost" (as if the base characteristics had been purchased with XP to begin with) this is a much more balanced approach and prevents one from simply re-designing a species (and mitigates the power gamer in all of us) while still giving something to the roleplayer in us who just wants an interesting character.

I was actually just thinking about this too and I agree it's a great way to reinforce the RP aspect of wanting a lower stat instead of encouraging simply modifying a species to powergame.

While giving full XP might be a bit strong, giving half XP is really a bit weak to me.

Why do you say?

while i see what your doing, its too complex, i think keeping it at may reduce 1 stat by 1 and gain xp equal to the original ability score x 10

a wookie with brawn 2 should have 30 extra xp to work with, they loose a lot of benefits doing it

making it a 1 point max reduction, only useable 1 time is limiting enough to balance the problem.

How is X*5 more complex than X*10?

I understand your reasoning as to the latter statement, but I am sticking to my guns on this one I've already implemented it as a house rule and 1 out of my 5 regular players has made use of it. They all love the rule, and it was something we played around with for a while before settling on this rule (the original idea I got from outlawknightzero from the d20radio community).

I also forgot to mention that I have this as a one-use rule. No reducing multiple characteristics multiple times. A player is allowed one 1-point reduction of 1 characteristic during character creation.

yeah my group also have it as a house rule, we use stat x10 though and i have only had 3 people use it in 17 players who have had it as an option, most power gamers avoid it, i find the role players are the only ones who take it, so making it x5 would only serve to punish the role players further, most min-maxers don't want a stat of 1 because it makes them very weak in an area.

you don't see many min-maxers play droids for that very reason.

so i am going to have to profusely agree to disagree, and stand by my guns, that refunding the cost of what it would have costed to buy the stat originally is what is refunded, its the only thing thats fair, the only thing needed to prevent it from being abused is the one use only rule.

I just think the bonus XP should equal the lost XP. Dropping a Twi'leks Presence from 3 to 2 is a big deal mechanically, so I feel like you should get a substantial amount of XP in return.

I also forgot to mention that I have this as a one-use rule. No reducing multiple characteristics multiple times. A player is allowed one 1-point reduction of 1 characteristic during character creation.

While I don't necessarily agree with dropping characteristic in this system (as it really prevents power/meta-gaming), if you're going to do it, the best way to do it is negating what could be potentially detrimental to a pretty well balanced system. This is why I think what awayurweaponput's idea is sound, if you're going to do it. Remember, this isn't d20, and the species are designed to have certain strengths, but also relative flaws that players can either choose to compensate or ignore.

I say this because the EotE RAW system really promotes narrative posting and PC character development and Char-Genning a PC, then moving it's stats around freely leads to min maxing; it doesn't really make sense to say, 'I want my human pilot to be good at Agility, Cunning and Willpower at the Expense of Brawn, Intellect and Presence' - I will say that reducing a single ability score and giving back reduced XP allows for 'customization' if you will and at the same time doesn't let players go totally wild with making Droids with non-Droid species bonuses .

I just think the bonus XP should equal the lost XP. Dropping a Twi'leks Presence from 3 to 2 is a big deal mechanically, so I feel like you should get a substantial amount of XP in return.

maybe the answer is if you dont get a full refund, then yu should at the very least get (score x 5 + 5)

so 4 to 3 gives 25, 3 to 2 gives 20, 2 to 1 gives 15

this gives a refund exactly half way between both versions

Plus, it makes it easier to customize your character in general.

Not that it isn't common in RPGs, but its odd that a game as story focused as EotE tries to be has such strict rules for Characteristic customization.

I also forgot to mention that I have this as a one-use rule. No reducing multiple characteristics multiple times. A player is allowed one 1-point reduction of 1 characteristic during character creation.

Seems reasonable to me. I still think the reduction should get "full value".

Plus, it makes it easier to customize your character in general.

Not that it isn't common in RPGs, but its odd that a game as story focused as EotE tries to be has such strict rules for Characteristic customization.

It's designed this way because, you can either choose a species, with certain strengths and weaknesses - you can choose to enhance the species strengths or compensate their weaknesses. There IS a species that allows for outright customization: Droids. You can do whatever you want with Droids, but that freedom has it's drawbacks as well (no force use, or normal healing).

If moving all characteristic points around freely is allowed, then why would anyone pick a Droid? Why not pick a human, which can be Force Sensitive and receive normal healing?

I just think the bonus XP should equal the lost XP. Dropping a Twi'leks Presence from 3 to 2 is a big deal mechanically, so I feel like you should get a substantial amount of XP in return.

maybe the answer is if you dont get a full refund, then yu should at the very least get (score x 5 + 5)

so 4 to 3 gives 25, 3 to 2 gives 20, 2 to 1 gives 15

Yeah that to me is a better compromise than half only.

I still think full is the way to go though.

If that's power gamey or "evil d20" think, so be it.

Plus, it makes it easier to customize your character in general.

Not that it isn't common in RPGs, but its odd that a game as story focused as EotE tries to be has such strict rules for Characteristic customization.

It's designed this way because, you can either choose a species, with certain strengths and weaknesses - you can choose to enhance the species strengths or compensate their weaknesses. There IS a species that allows for outright customization: Droids. You can do whatever you want with Droids, but that freedom has it's drawbacks as well (no force use, or normal healing).

If a player wants to run a Wookiee with surprisingly low Brawn but high Intellect, I am all for it.

Not that it isn't common in RPGs, but its odd that a game as story focused as EotE tries to be has such strict rules for Characteristic customization.

I think it's because there are fewer pips to work with. Like nWoD, each increment/decrement means a lot. Plus I think they wanted to avoid having new players turned off because they maxed their Brawn to 5 and invested in appropriate skills at the expense of their other stats, and find rolling 1 die for everything but Brawl and Melee to be less than fun. I don't think this game supports narrow characters as well, unless the GM specifically tailors something for the PC.

Plus, it makes it easier to customize your character in general.

Not that it isn't common in RPGs, but its odd that a game as story focused as EotE tries to be has such strict rules for Characteristic customization.

It's designed this way because, you can either choose a species, with certain strengths and weaknesses - you can choose to enhance the species strengths or compensate their weaknesses. There IS a species that allows for outright customization: Droids. You can do whatever you want with Droids, but that freedom has it's drawbacks as well (no force use, or normal healing).

If moving all characteristic points around freely is allowed, then why would anyone pick a Droid? Why not pick a human, which can be Force Sensitive and receive normal healing?

and what if i want to play an idiot gungan, or a frail wookie, or a human who grew up in the wild like tarzan and has poor presence because he doesn't know how to speak to people, or a twilek dancer with poor agility who can't dance to save her self....

your saying this game isn't for me??

sorry but this game is a roleplay game, we should be allowed to break the molds if we so choose and not by type cast by our race.

Not that it isn't common in RPGs, but its odd that a game as story focused as EotE tries to be has such strict rules for Characteristic customization.

I think it's because there are fewer pips to work with. Like nWoD, each increment/decrement means a lot. Plus I think they wanted to avoid having new players turned off because they maxed their Brawn to 5 and invested in appropriate skills at the expense of their other stats, and find rolling 1 die for everything but Brawl and Melee to be less than fun. I don't think this game supports narrow characters as well, unless the GM specifically tailors something for the PC.

Oh for sure this is true. But I think there should be guidelines for more advanced character creation.

I understand it, I just think its unnecessarily restrictive.

If a player wants to run a Wookiee with surprisingly low Brawn but high Intellect, I am all for it.

I can see what your saying, but the CRB states that these are basic stats for the species - basically their starting point. Chewbacca would be an example of a wookiee with high Intellect, but he's a wookiee and even the weakest wookiee would have higher brawn than the average human.. And nothing says you can't have high intellect, you can invest all your XP into intellect, it's not like a human is any less intelligent than them. But I understand wanting to add in a rule that allows further customization - personally I'd side against going overboard with it.

I understand it, I just think its unnecessarily restrictive.

If a player wants to run a Wookiee with surprisingly low Brawn but high Intellect, I am all for it.

I can see what your saying, but the CRB states that these are basic stats for the species - basically their starting point. Chewbacca would be an example of a wookiee with high Intellect, but he's a wookiee and even the weakest wookiee would have higher brawn than the average human.. And nothing says you can't have high intellect, you can invest all your XP into intellect, it's not like a human is any less intelligent than them. But I understand wanting to add in a rule that allows further customization - personally I'd side against going overboard with it.

that is why the one thing that everyone has agreed on so far is that the stat reduction may only be done to 1 stat and only reduced by 1 point.

and what if i want to play an idiot gungan, or a frail wookie, or a human who grew up in the wild like tarzan and has poor presence because he doesn't know how to speak to people, or a twilek dancer with poor agility who can't dance to save her self....

your saying this game isn't for me??

sorry but this game is a roleplay game, we should be allowed to break the molds if we so choose and not by type cast by our race.

You're totally misunderstanding me; I said I personally don't agree with making adjustments to species and my reasoning behind it - but I also agree that there will be those who wish to customize and I stated that awayurweaponput's idea was sound with my first post on this thread. I was simply responding to The Human Target's question directly and the thought process against making adjustments in general, not saying that creating a home rule for it shouldn't be allowed .