possible spoilers...

We were playing the RTL campaign last night, and this new dungeon level from Tomb of ice was level 1 of the dungeon the heroes entered.

The campaign is still in copper, my eldritch creatures are at silver level, and I think the campaign stands at about 36-26 for the Overlord.

My heroes (an experienced bunch) have come to the conclusion that this dungeon level is impossible (I think it is #42 or something, don't have the card handy)

Anyhow, it is the dungeon level with a Master shade, and I chose to spawn 3 lesser shades and a Master dark Priest. The map uses the new large 10x10 square tile, but the outdoor side, with the trees. The first problem encountered is what happens with a wraith in a tree? I used some common sense and said that the map was not designed to be impossible, so a wraith in a tree would only get its inherent ability (ghost) and not the shadowcloak ability from the tree. So that was fine..

Now the way the dungeon level is worded, is any time a hero enters a tree space, he immediately suffers 2 wounds, and his turn ends. ouch. Now the layout on this tile, is that from where the heroes would enter, they are immediatly blocked by trees. the only route is a single lane south, which leads into snow/ice. Hence they would roll a black die to see if they slip and stumble, ending their turn. The dungeon level card also says explicitly "heroes who enter a tree space....".. hence my wraiths and dark priest can spend the 2 movement to move into a tree space and continue moving. So the master wraith (any hero within 4 spaces of her at the start of the overlords turn takes 1 damage), can basically move around the map, keeping trees and ice between her and the heroes'. A friend counted the individual empty squares on the tile, and said there was something like 20 squares that did not have a tree, or snow/ice on it. There is also a spot in the top right corner which is a dead end surrounded by trees, and the only way in is through snow/ice tiles. And with the master wraith having pierce 5, ending your turn near her is certain death. And that's not taking into account the other 3 wraiths and the master dark priest.

Were we doing something wrong on this map? My heroes fled and only lost 2 of their number. If they stayed I know they would have been decimated over and over again. Oh.. and the master wraith has undying too.. nice... How are they expected to have a chance on this one? Even if they were buffed out, with gold weapons, my wraiths would always be able to move through the trees and keep my distance from them, whereas they would inevitably end their turn prematurely in a tree or ice..

Ah, it's a lovely level for the OL. Not every level needs to be a cakewalk. Several of the ToI levels for RtL are tough. But, it's not impossible. Others have reported that the heroes got through the level just fine. However, if the OL is playing well, he can make it really hard for the heroes.

One thing, there is no ice on the level. The snow on the tile is for decoration. There are no ice tiles.

For the heroes: ranged/magic weapons and guard orders. Sure, you still need to get next to the shades to hit them if they stay in the trees. I'm sure others will have more comments.

Okay, we played it a bit wrong then.. Not having snow/ice to worry about will help the heroes a bit, but won't be as impossible as it seemed last night. I just assumed that since the 10x10 tile had snow/ice on it, it would be in effect as an obstacle, much the same way as some tiles have water printed on them, and are actual water obstacles..

Yeah, the ToI rulebook explicitly states that the snow on the board is decoration only.

I *really* don't like the fact that they're mixing that. In JitD (as well as Doom), anything printed on the tiles was just flavor, no affects in the game. Then they introduced corruption pieces. Then RtL with trees and water on outdoor spaces, etc. And then ToI with snow that isn't really snow. I wish they wouldn't have mixed this element like that :/

-shnar

trentrichards said:

It is a really hard level, the toughest of them all IMO (and that was without upgraded Eldritch!). But it is not impossible, we've completed it twice in two seperate campaigns (it has a nasty habit of being drawn at times when fleeing is not a good option too!)

What happens with a Wraith in a tree is that you need to get up close and personal with a Ranged or Magic weapon*. There is nothing impossible about it. The nice thing about wraiths, is that once you hit them they break easy. Its just hitting them thats real hard.
*I'm not sure if you are doing that wrong, but you seem to be implying that the combo of Ghost and Shadowcloak makes it impossible to hit someone. This is not true. Ghost only prevents adjacent Melee weapons from hitting you, not adjacent Ranged or Magic weapons.

Yes, Ouch. Howver, although the wounds ignore armour, they do not ignore Runes. Ghost Armour is your friend on this level (as is Spiritwalker). What the heroes need to do is give ghost armour to a ranged character, who can then put a guard order on and step into the hedge (it is a garden maze, so I call the trees hedge) and use the ghost armour to prevent the wounds (thus keeping the guard active).
The second thing you can do is use Spiritwalker (if you have it) to clean out the monsters on the other side, especially with a guard order so you can get them when they are not inthe trees.
The third thing you can do is use leadership to place a guard order on a hero who has already stepped into the trees and ended his turn.
The last resort is to heft shields, place a dodge order and step into the hedge, toughing out whatever the OL can throw at you.
Of course Fly and Acrobat just make all the pain go away...

What is really nasty on this level, since the action is a long way from the start glyph and the second glyph is really tough to get through to, is when the OL pulls a Sundered Glyph on you - I did that to my opponent and it really put the hurt on him.

Obviously you were doing the ice wrong. Possibly you were doing Ghost wrong. Other than that, it sounds like you did right by fleeing. THe heroes are not meant to always crush all resistance mercilessly - not unless they are prepared to take the CT punishment). It is the toughest level of all IMO and needs special skills (although there are quite a few options available, and all skills you would be aiming for in any case) and clever planning by the heroes.
And being against upgraded Eldritch jsut makes it worse...

I merely wish to second my agreement that this is the hardest level by leaps and bounds (which isn't *necessarily* a bad thing, although the magnitude of it is a little mind-boggling). A major reason for this that I haven't seen anyone mention though is that this level makes cutting off spawn lines utterly impossible. A large number of the RtL maps are fairly easy because spawns can be completely shut down with 4 Hero positions or less. On this one, I counted once and don't remember the result, but it would take 12+ at least. This is because a character standing in a clear 'row' of the hedge maze can't even see any of the trees except the ones directly adjacent to him. The Overlord can spawn an entire Kobold horde on this level pretty much anywhere he wants.

Of course, all is not lost. As usual, prior to its removal, telekinesis trivialized this level; and by using knockback on your friends, you should be able to achieve a lesser but similar result.

Now there's a thought, knocking a friend OVER the trees so as to not take damage and still be able to move.

I think it was the inexperienced OL in our group, but we cakewalked this level. Our sprinter (Speed 5) ran down the one corridor to get the coins, took damage to go through the trees, then ran to get Glyph and Chest, while the other three wailed on the wraiths in the room. I think we lost one Hero and then moved on to next dungeon. I actually really like the design of the board, the whole hedge-maze concept, and felt it very refreshing to see

-shnar

We got this map last week in our campaign. I'm OL and I cannot understand why they didn't flee. I have never had more fun in my life as an OL

Their big mistake was advancing on guard leaving the first squares around the starting glyph out of sight, so I spawned some dark priests behind them and combined with some crushing blocks and a few skeletons the next turn I had full control the whole level. I got more CT on that map than I usually get in a full dungeon (if they complete it).