Was thinking this
I think leaving it a 3 agility dice is fine. Remember that an ion hit causes one damage, so it will die anyway. A lot of people have suggested that all the maneuvers be white and that they be immune to stress. I think that not having a focus action will mitigate the effectiveness of their insane manueverability and their high volume. I really like the idea an would like to see how they perform.
With 4 agility how about disallowing modifications?
You're not going to want to waste modification points on a 9 cost ship. You would be far better simply getting more of them.
I don't have an issue with a 2 attack ship with no focus being 9 points... The focus makes so much difference with TIEs, without it you will be throwing out lots of shots but very few will connect.
I don't think they need any special rules, in fact I would avoid them. Having a good dial with mainly greens and whites should represent well them not getting stressed.
Vulture droids are silly maneuverable because their entire shape changes. You see them landing on ships and taking off like pterodactyls. I wouldn't be against giving them a red 0.
With 4 agility how about disallowing modifications?
You're not going to want to waste modification points on a 9 cost ship. You would be far better simply getting more of them.
I disagree Juggler at Agility 4, 3 points for a Stealth Device, taking them up to the cost of a TIE/Ln could be horrible broken in some matchups. There are lists out there which would be hard pressed to touch them. I would hate to face them with A-Wings. 2 Attack dice vs 5/6 at long range...
Edited by Rodent MastermindWhile i appreciate your design and it's well done i have one major problem with your design and that's the points costs.
The reason why the Tie Swarm is one of the most powerful builds in the game is just numbers.. 6-8 ships against standard 3-4 ships is just too powerful because the initial attack is nearly guaranteed an early kill which puts the opponent on the defensive where only major luck and/or skill can get him out of.
Now having 11 ships with firepower 2 means 22 shots ( a little less usually) and that's something even the Falcon/Shuttle or the Firespray will keep away from much less any standard small fighter in the game.
There's not much skill involved in playing such a force.. rush towards your opponent in groups of 2 or 3 and concentrate on one ship until it's out (with this much firepower one volley should be enough), rinse and repeat.
Hull 1 only mitigates the problem and having Agility 3 makes them much more survivable so the opponent may not even hit a single one of them while you swarm him to death.
In this game where ships are costed usually somewhere around 20 points with some exceptions such cheap ships have the potency to really unbalance the game.
Actually, if you REALLY want to mess with things, then you should build a squad with Howlrunner + as many droids as you can. 
I actually don't think that it would be as unbalanced as you might think, They fire at PS0 and die with any hits, and can't take focus for defense. Statistically, in large enough groups, the ship cost would go something like:
12*(1/3)^0.5 = 6.29.
But that ignores the effective hit point increase from "only" having one hull, i.e. if you take 3 hits, it essentially only counts as 1. Still, 9 points is certainly not undercosted. If anything, it might be too expensive - what we need is some playtesting with a cost of 8 - that would let you run a full squadron of them!
An apples to apples comparison would be Howlrunner + 6 TIEs vs Howlrunner + 10 droids. Anyone want to playtest this? 
While i appreciate your design and it's well done i have one major problem with your design and that's the points costs.
The reason why the Tie Swarm is one of the most powerful builds in the game is just numbers.. 6-8 ships against standard 3-4 ships is just too powerful because the initial attack is nearly guaranteed an early kill which puts the opponent on the defensive where only major luck and/or skill can get him out of.
Now having 11 ships with firepower 2 means 22 shots ( a little less usually) and that's something even the Falcon/Shuttle or the Firespray will keep away from much less any standard small fighter in the game.
There's not much skill involved in playing such a force.. rush towards your opponent in groups of 2 or 3 and concentrate on one ship until it's out (with this much firepower one volley should be enough), rinse and repeat.
Hull 1 only mitigates the problem and having Agility 3 makes them much more survivable so the opponent may not even hit a single one of them while you swarm him to death.
In this game where ships are costed usually somewhere around 20 points with some exceptions such cheap ships have the potency to really unbalance the game.
Well, If you ever saw the beginning of Episode 3, just at that time when Anakin says that "This is where the fun begins" quote, they'll remind you of that scene where the Spartans die on 300, only switch arrows for droids covering the skies, heh. That's the spirit of this design. The entire point and purpose of the droid here is to overwhelm in this way, just like the Tie swarm, only less powerfully if possible. What I want is to find balance, but keep numbers at all costs.
Of those 22 shots, consider.. There's no Howlrunner or focus, so it begins to even out. Add the wide area missiles and bombs which can potentially erase many of them off the map if they stick together too much.. This means tight formations are not as viable as before, but the opposite, which in turn reduces the chances of a 22 damage focus fire on one ship.. In this way and many others it's a different experience from the Ties we know today. One hull and 0 pilot skill in this way won't have many of them surviving the first round also, so the 22 shots are reduced by then somewhat.
Upping the point cost and hull would see them being no different than a normal Tie. Boring and same-same. Only upping points makes then instead a very weak Tie.
Lowering evade goes against their description also, so there should be another way.
Double stress could work, but instead of cluttering with special rules, the simple all-green/white dial befits their traits more.
How about.. The thought of.. Lowering their attack to 1. But a special droid-only action would have them raise their attack dice count by +1. That way they can either evade, or attack with 2.
We could name this action something along the lines of an instant computerized target lock system.
Edited by Vagrant
With 4 agility how about disallowing modifications?
You're not going to want to waste modification points on a 9 cost ship. You would be far better simply getting more of them.
I disagree Juggler at Agility 4, 3 points for a Stealth Device, taking them up to the cost of a TIE/Ln could be horrible broken in some matchups. There are lists out there which would be hard pressed to touch them. I would hate to face them with A-Wings. 2 Attack dice vs 5/6 at long range...
Good point, let me run the numbers though.
Scenario: Three PS1 TIE Fighter at range 3 with focus are attacking three PS0 droids with Stealth Device (3+1+1=5 defense dice) and the evade action. Through 3 shots:
42% chance that there were zero hits.
33% chance that there was one hit, stripping the evade token.
25% chance of 2+ hits, killing the droid.
Through 4 TIEs, it looks like:
32% chance that there were zero hits
33% chance that there was one hit, stripping the evade token.
35% chance of 2+ hits, killing the droid.
Through 5 TIES:
23.68% chance that there were zero hits
31% chance that there was one hit, stripping the evade token.
45% chance of 2+ hits, killing the droid.
If we extend that all the way to a full squad of 8 TIEs, then its:
9.98% chance that there were zero hits
20.94% chance that there was one hit, stripping the evade token.
69% chance of 2+ hits, killing the droid.
Then the Droids then fire back. Assuming that they shoot at a TIE that has no focus for defense (likely), the average damage per attack, of 2 dice vs 4 is 0.2441 damage. The totals through 3 droids attacking a single TIE is:
50% chance that the droids scored zero hits
31.75% chance of 1 hit
13.93% chance of 2 hits
4.27% chance of 3+ hits, killing the TIE
Through 4 droid attacks, it looks like:
39.75% chance of zero hits
33.61% chance of 1 hit
18.29% chance of 2 hits
8.35% chance of 3+ hits, killing a TIE.
Lets jump ahead to 12 Droids all shooting at range 3 against one TIE. Through 12 droid attacks:
6.28% chance of zero hits
15.93% chance of 1 hit
22.14% chance of 2 hits
55.65% chance of 3+ hits, killing a TIE.
Summary: you'll be shooting at each other forever and missing all night long until you get to closer range. But the TIEs still have a slight advantage.
Oh crap, by all hells, let's keep Howlrunner out of this, please.. Haha.
Now that'd be insane. Unless missiles?
The issue isn't droids vs. ties it's droids vs 3-5 ship builds. I gotta say 11pts is the bottom for a ship with 2 attack. Take away the focus and boost action, give them TL and all white/green dials and they will feel really different than ties. I would even say a torpedo slot might be fun but only on a higher PS model (at 0 it would be pretty useless) for a little point bump.
Lots of droid discussions have droids avoiding stress outright, I tend to agree, but dislike rules text on ships so it would require a new design there. Similar discussions usually have them ignore friendly pilot abilities to avoid howlrunner, Jendon, Jonus shenanigans as a small offset. You can have a few advanced models as "uniques" for fun. Maybe these get missiles/torps/sensors for fun one offs.
I love culture droids and hope we get a droid tie and techno union droids make a great third faction! Certainly different enough if done well.
Since you're dropping Focus I suggest giving them Target Lock. It would give the Vultures an offensive action since Evade is defensive while boost/barrel roll are movement.
Not sure how I feel about a Fast moving swarm; at the numbers you can field the Vultures at.
"Fast Swarms" should be left for the "TIE's"
----
For their movement they should have a dial that looks like:
Speed-1: All Maneuvers; Greens: FWD, Banks; K-Turn: No
Speed-2: All Maneuvers; Greens: All Maneuvers; K-Turn: No
Speed-3: All Maneuvers; Greens: FWD; K-Turn: Yes-Red
if you need to go faster there's always boost...
----
Flavor Text ::: Can Perform Red-Maneuvers while Stressed.
allows for K-Turn chaining but still disallows actions while stressed.
Just Fyi everyone. The droids, just like their card value, can be found cheap out there.
Apparently it's a game called Starship Battles. Aside from that I don't know anything else.
They're fairly easy to remove their original bases, and with a bit of a foamy material, fit X-Wing bases fairly easily. Plus I make the cards to be printed.
Edited by VagrantThey're fairly easy to remove their original bases, and with a bit of a foamy material, fit X-Wing bases fairly easily. Plus I make the cards to be printed.
Instead of foamy material, you could get a small ball of greensuff and stick it into the hole. Then get the X-Wing stalk and stick it in so that the greenstuff takes the imprint of the stalk. A little bit of water on the tip of the stalk should avoid it from getting stuck to the greenstuff as you remove it.
I always appreciate when people bring new things to the hobby.
Thanks for sharing!
Ditto Bolda...nicely done!
It seems too often that some forum users do nothing but bash people like us who create new things for the game. I look at those people who are the biggest critics and notice that they do nothing, but complain. In comparison, we play awesome games that nobody else gets to experience. Like fighting vulture droids. I'd totally want to fight a swarm of these monsters.
Keep up the good work Vagrant.
It seems too often that some forum users do nothing but bash people like us who create new things for the game. I look at those people who are the biggest critics and notice that they do nothing, but complain. In comparison, we play awesome games that nobody else gets to experience. Like fighting vulture droids. I'd totally want to fight a swarm of these monsters.
Keep up the good work Vagrant.
Probably because for every 5 or even 10 threads about people developing stuff, only 1-2 will actually have decent, well thought out, reasonable content. Most of the stuff that you will see is people who struggle to play the game well, inventing ways to counter things that they struggle to deal with.
Apparently it's a game called Starship Battles. Aside from that I don't know anything else.
Bad game. Bad rules. Poorly balanced. Nice miniatures, though.
Apparently it's a game called Starship Battles. Aside from that I don't know anything else.Bad game. Bad rules. Poorly balanced. Nice miniatures, though.
Some... nice miniatures.
I love the concept of an extremely fragile fighter out there on the field, and the fact that they have 0 pilot skill makes them pretty interesting. They'd certainly have blocking on their list of perks.
What I was thinking was perhaps adding some more pilots for it. For example, I remember that Battle Droids have ranks, such as Captain and Major, so perhaps giving some ranked units with pilot skill would be an option. I also like the idea of having other models with different costs and features, such as the CIS variant/upgrade, but 15 points for 2 PS and a missile seems somewhat overpriced, in fact it's very overpriced. Why would I cut my fleet down from 11 of these things to say having some missiles, especially when there's no ability to Target Lock? Especially considering they could die in a single hit. It makes Academy Pilots look tough by comparison.
That said, I think their actions should be Boost, Barrel Roll, Evade, Target Lock, giving them plenty of maneuverability and chances to dodge hits due to their small profile.
First comment on the droid fighters:
Vagrant, I think you hit the nail right on the head. Great Job. The loss of the focus forces some tough decisions and 3 evade, with only evade, doesn't stop one hit from getting through here and there. I also like how you pointed out that you shouldn't use Howlrunner with the Droid Swarm. Does that mean for all intents and purposes you intend for this to be a separate faction? Do you have any ideas for the Tri-Fighters?
Yup. Separate faction, hopefully. But for now, it's like filler on our games.
Back on board, so, taking most of what's been said into account, I might just give the droids another test run in a small 50 point game, with this 1.1 setup:
------------------------------------------
Prototype A.I (V.1.1)
Droid Starfighter
Pilot Skill: '0'
Attack --- '1'
Evade ---'3'
Hull ---'1'
Actions:
- Evade
- Barrel roll
- Boost
- Barrage (New- with this action, increase your attack dice by +1 in this round, when using your Primary Weapon.)
Unit cost: '9'
------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------
Advanced A.I (V.1.1)
Droid Starfighter (Adv)
Pilot Skill: '2'
Unit ability: "Automatic Targeting: You can fire secondary weapons without having to acquire or spend Target Lock tokens on the defender."
Attack --- '1'
Evade ---'3'
Hull ---'1'
Actions:
- Evade
- Barrel roll
- Boost
- Barrage (New- with this action, increase your attack dice by +1 in this round, when using your Primary Weapon.)
Unit cost: '11'
This unit can field one Missile card.
------------------------------------------
Maneuver dial says the same. Thoughts?
I like this thread,
How about one of the droid ships is the " controller " ship and can hand out only one target lock to one of its fellow droid ships... That way if the controllership is eliminated the droids lose the ability of target lock. Alternatively, you could switch the controller status to another droid ship before executing manoeuvres say at a range of 2... And the droids would only be able to have one target lock in total... Just riffing on the idea...
Never really posted but thought I'd drop my 2 cents in...
I like this thread,
How about one of the droid ships is the " controller " ship and can hand out only one target lock to one of its fellow droid ships... That way if the controllership is eliminated the droids lose the ability of target lock. Alternatively, you could switch the controller status to another droid ship before executing manoeuvres say at a range of 2... And the droids would only be able to have one target lock in total... Just riffing on the idea...
Never really posted but thought I'd drop my 2 cents in...
To expand upon this you could have an upgrade option (EPT or modification, not sure) for droid ships only called "Droid Leader" All friendly droid ships of the same type (including the ship it is equipped to) ending their moves within range 1 (maybe 2 or 3) gain the focus ability action. So squad leaders can help to focus their squad mates, but can't do anything for more elite droids, or droids of a different type since they wouldn't be part of their squad. It would be a useful upgrade but you would want to find the balance between giving to lots of ships or very few.
Let Us know how it goes.
I like this thread,
How about one of the droid ships is the " controller " ship and can hand out only one target lock to one of its fellow droid ships... That way if the controllership is eliminated the droids lose the ability of target lock. Alternatively, you could switch the controller status to another droid ship before executing manoeuvres say at a range of 2... And the droids would only be able to have one target lock in total... Just riffing on the idea...
Never really posted but thought I'd drop my 2 cents in...
To expand upon this you could have an upgrade option (EPT or modification, not sure) for droid ships only called "Droid Leader" All friendly droid ships of the same type (including the ship it is equipped to) ending their moves within range 1 (maybe 2 or 3) gain the focus ability action. So squad leaders can help to focus their squad mates, but can't do anything for more elite droids, or droids of a different type since they wouldn't be part of their squad. It would be a useful upgrade but you would want to find the balance between giving to lots of ships or very few.
Lesse..
-------------------
• Droid Leader
Modification
Droid Starfighter only.
All friendly ships within range 1-2 of the same type (Including Droid Leader) gain the Focus Action.
Card cost: 1
-------------------
I wonder how effective this would be, to be honest, with the Barrage action giving you an extra die. Say, why not have them gain a Target Lock action instead? Or a free action.
Or instead of cluttering the field with actions or Target Lock tokens, how would it be if it went the Howlrunner way? One re-roll per droid in Range 1 of the Leader. And it's not as if it'll be that much difficult to take down the leader, at 1 hull, and 0 Pilot Skill. It gives the droids that first "overwhelm' moment before the scatter.
Notice the bullet next to the name. There can only be one. At 11 droids outlining the horizon, it's 99 points plus a leader.
Also, here's another.
-------------------
Coordination
Modification
Droid Starfighter only.
At the beginning of the activation phase, you may choose one friendly ship within range 1-2 of you, of the same type. During this round, increase the pilot skill of that ship by +3.
Card cost: 3
-------------------
Droids communicate with each other and transmit/process data seemingly instantly. So it makes sense that they'd be equipped to cooperate with each other to move in a way as what a high Pilot Skill implies. As an example, you'd use this to get the upper hand on an Academy Pilot or a Rookie Pilot, who'd usually move last and shoot first.
Edited by VagrantPossible sets on my head right now that could work, for testing:
If any of you guys want to try this, then awesome. More reference for further refinement.
Droid Starfighter + Droid Leader
Droid Starfighter (x10)
-----------------------------------------
= 100 Pts
It's the "It's raining droids, run for the hills" OH SHI- set.
Droid Starfighter + Droid Leader
Droid Starfighter + Coordination
Droid Starfighter + Coordination
Droid Starfighter + Coordination
Droid Starfighter (x6)
-----------------------------------------
= 100 Pts
In this one, fly 10 droids with 3 of them possibly getting the 3 Pilot Skill bonus, putting them above all those Academy/Rookies. And the Leader of course.
I don't have enough ship bases with me right now to fly these things, lol. So I'll have to test-run with a 50 Point game:
Droid Starfighter + Droid Leader
Droid Starfighter + Coordination
Droid Starfighter
Droid Starfighter
Droid Starfighter
-----------------------------------------
= 49 Pts
If they play as fun as I'm thinking, I'm sure as hell buying/taking more of those "Starship Battles" droids and scarabs. Actually, as many as I can find. I swear, the droid models were like the only ones in the series who didn't look horribly pathetic, quality-wise. Did I mention the other ship models in the series were even painful to watch?
Gotta be quick and grab them off of Ebay before word spreads of how well they go with X-wing, I say. while they're still dirt cheap.
Edited by Vagrant