According to the latest rules insert Enhance effects last till the end of the enhance phase unless otherwise stated or contextually implied, and Form and response effects last till the end of the turn unless otherwise stated or contextually implied. This can be found under the effect durration heading.

So this leads to not very clear things with Seigfried's support so allow me to list out my questions.

No Forgiveness! - Does the context of "if it does damage" and the fact that this is a enhance ability imply that this will last till end of turn or that it will never expire?

Soul Calibur* - Am I correct in assuming, acording to the effect duration explanation in the rules sheet, that this lasts only to end of turn? If not, what causes it to continue on, or end sooner?

Attoning for His Wicked Deeds - Am I correct in assuming, acording to the effect duration explanation in the rules sheet, that this lasts only to end of turn? If not, what causes it to continue on, or end sooner?

Regretful Existance - Am I correct in assuming, acording to the effect duration explanation in the rules sheet, that this lasts only to end of turn? If not, what causes it to continue on, or end sooner?

Am I right here? Wrong? If so what am I missing?

it is permanent unless it says otherwise.

mastermajora said:

Why? According to the rules insert that is not correct.

BlindProphet said:

it has no reason to flip back. also can you post this rules insert?

theres a part about effect ending at the end of the turn unless they say otherwise, but its effect is that it flips a card. once it flip the card the effect is over and theres no reason to say it'll flip back.

do you think abilities like olcadon's mentoring or any "destroy 1 of your opponents foundations" should be undone at the end of the turn too?

Stamp for Ziepnir. Once the foundation gets converted, it's gonna stay that way, much like if a foundation gets destroyed by Mentoring... (i mean it's true, Mentoring doesn't specify duration either, should the foundation be un-destroyed? same argument)

Tagrineth said:

Destroyed implys permanence so your argument is flawed.

Secondly this brings up a new question. Since effects expire at the end of the turn, even if the foundation doesn't return to its original state, does the effect that causes it to be considered a foundation end at the end of the turn per the rules?

again.....there is no effect persisting once the foundation is changed, the change stays and there is no effect left to stop at the end of the turn

Ziephnir said:

Yes there is. "That card is now considered a foundation with a blank text box." Just like "Change this attacks zone to any other zone" is a effect on/to a card. Its a effect, that has no specific duration.

the effect itself ends once the zone is changed in that case.

much like the ability is independant of the source once it is played, a change is independant of what changed it once the effect resolves.

Ziephnir said:

Except a change is not independant of what changed it. Enhances end after the attack resolves unless otherwise specified. Forms and responses end at end of turn unless otherwise specified. I'll concede that the cards won't flip back over at end of turn, but by card text and rules context it seems that their counting as foundations would end at the end of turn.

BlindProphet said:

This is where you are getting confused. Enhances for attacks end as soon as you resolve the totality of that enhance. If the enhance says "This attack gets +1 damage and then you may draw 1 card", after you draw that card the effect is over and the change has happened.

Yes the attack then reverts everything back to normal after it resolves. This is not due to the enhances ending. This is due to a game mechanic in the rules that says:

302.8.5 Any non-continuous changes to an attack’s base/printed values will end after the attack
has resolved.

notice it says the change not the enhance.

basically the point is that no effect has a duration unless the card says so. All F:'s that last through a turn say "Untill the end of this turn" or "For the rest of this turn". The rest of the F's go off and then resolve and they are done. They don't last at all. IN this case the foundation is flipped and now consudered a blank foundation untill its state is changed again. Again no lasting at all. No where in the rules does it say that effects only last till end of turn. We adopted that mostly to make things a little easier.

Guys... if there's a face down card in your staging area, and it was a foundation, now it's just a foundation with a bunch of null values.

Dragoku I was refering to that nifty little Effect Duration paragraph per the rules insert in the new starter decks, where it explicitly states that unless otherwise stated things end at the end of turn.

BlindProphet said:

Lets revisit Kunai. E add this card to your momentum: Add 1 card from your card pool or hand to your momentum.

wait! It doesnt say for it to stay there. Does that mean if a card went from hand to momentum it goes back to hand? of course not.

Ok that was a bad exaggeration but look at Yishan's new abilities, the old face up momentum mechanic. It goes in "upside down" compared to normally. And it stays that way. Its not till end of turn, and it never specifies a duration.

Here is a stick, makes it easier to beat a dead horse if you use a weapon

Smazzurco said:

I have conceded that the flipped card stays flipped. Just like a card added to momentum stays added, a card discarded stays discarded, and a destroyed foundation stays destroyed.

However, there is a floating effect outside of the flipping of the card that happens with the listed cards: "This card is considered to be a foundation with a blank text box." This is a effect, a change to what something is, without a listed duration.