The perils of procrastination. After E3 I had this thought that the clones were genetically engineered to unthinkingly respond to Order 66, perhaps through a flaw in their Force signature that allowed the flaw to be filled with the dark side. I even had several chapters written of a story centered around two Jedi who discovered this themselves, too late of course...

Turns out that season 6 of TCW is going to address this:

http://www.jedinews.co.uk/news/news.aspx?newsID=15107

• Clone cadet Tup is undergoing a medical examination in the sterile laboratories of Kamino to find the motives for his shocking attack on the Jedi master. For the examination to succeed, cadet Fives must enter the depth of Tup’s mind, where he finds a secret code manipulation in the cloning program of the Republic.

Well, I suppose I can console myself with some kind of "great minds think alike" story, but ... but ... waaah! Just because it will never see the light of day, I'm going to post the first chapter here. As the Jedi begins her descent to the dark side, the Clones rally...

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Mirala ran through the dense foliage, light-saber ignited and in hand. Sweat dripped from her hair, but it did not keep her cool. The air was hot and humid, with only a rare breath of wind.

All around her she could hear the crunch and swish of heavy footfalls as she and the clone troopers fled from the latest battle. Far away, but not far enough, battle droids, destroyers and wheeled missile tanks were searching for them. Three times now they had been overrun. What had appeared to be a small scouting group somehow always turned into a larger force, and though she slashed and parried and destroyed droid after droid after droid, somehow there were always more.

Mirala was unsure of the terrain. The clones were still obedient, but she could sense their frustration. She knew their situation was desperate. She knew that most of the clones, had she given the order, would have gladly turned on their enemies, preferring to go down in a blaze of fire and glory rather than run like this. But she did not give the order, and they obeyed, for now.

They came to a low rise. The foliage broke somewhat. Up ahead she could see a narrow ravine, and behind it, rough hills. This must be the western edge of Doldun Heights, she thought. She wished she knew, but their long-range communications were jammed.

“Jenec!” she shouted. She could hear the clones around her, but couldn’t see most of them, and not their leader. Jenec had been Sergeant three days ago. They’d lost Captain Maric and three Lieutenants though, and he was now the leader.

“Yes Ma’am?” A clone with a smudged red stripe on his shoulder stepped out from the undergrowth.

“Does that look like Doldun Heights to you?” She waved her light-saber towards the break in the trees.

“I’ve never been to Doldun Heights, ma’am.”

She sighed inwardly and gritted her teeth, but kept her voice calm. “Yes, but, given our last known position, and the direction we’ve been heading, does it seem reasonable to you that the rise ahead of us is Doldun Heights?” You had to be pretty specific with these clones, at least with those in the lower ranks. Captain Maric would have understood her, but they had left his body behind days ago.

Jenec appeared to process this. “Yes ma’am, that does seem reasonable,” he said finally. Then unexpectedly he added, “If that is Doldun Heights we should be able to lose them in the ravines, and it should be no more than ten kilometres to the nearest base.”

Mirala felt a tension in Jenec lift slightly. It had been there growing slowly for some time, but she had been so busy she hadn't noticed. But a breath of hope seemed to lift Jenec.

“We might make it out of this yet,” she commented, to see where that thought led. “To fight another day…?”

Jenec nodded.

“How many are we?” she asked, before he could lose the mood.

He answered after a moment. “We are fifty-seven, and you. Five troops carry heavy rockets with proton grenades. The rest are armed as I, with repeating blasters. A few of us have throwing grenades. We have no communications at present, but we do have one active comm unit, and if we can get to high ground, we might be able to evade the jamming signal.”

Mirala considered for only a few seconds before giving her orders. “We make for that ravine. I do not know the terrain, so we can only hope it leads to higher ground. However, at worst it should be defensible, and we can make a stand.” She did not say ‘final stand’. She felt it was best to leave the option open. “If we find the ravine leads to higher ground, we will need six volunteers: four standard troopers to support two rockets. Choose them now. They will make a stand, and drive them off any pursuit, if possible.”

He relayed the command, and there were no shortage of volunteers. She let him make his choices. Then they were off again, running and sweating through dense dripping undergrowth, then open forest with a tall canopy overhead. As she stumbled across a narrow turgid stream, she felt the presence of the droids fade behind. It seemed they were losing them, yet she did not feel glad. Rather she felt a sense of foreboding. Three times now the mindless droids had seemingly disappeared, only to reappear unexpectedly in greater strength just where she had wanted to go. It was as if someone was reading her mind, knew her well enough to anticipate her movements.

And with that thought she knew, with the first true sense of clarity she had had in days, that the enemy was already waiting for them in the ravine ahead. They were close now, almost too close.

“Point! Enemy in the ravine!” she shouted. She felt the unit come to a stop in front of her, and she made her way up to the front. “I will take point,” she said, and plunged into the undergrowth. The clones followed. They were doing their best to move quietly, but she could still hear them.

Mirala tried to relax while she ran, but there was no time to think. Her sudden insight had made her aware of a nagging feeling at the back of her head: a goading, almost mocking presence. It was a like a cloud around her, and it had been making her efforts to feel the Force muddy and indistinct. Now it bore down even stronger, and made her feel closed in and claustrophobic. And that made her angry.

She wished Elan was here. If anyone could calm her down, or cut through this fog, it was he. They were so different, Elan and she, but on some odd level they complemented each other. They had done so ever since they were children. When the Jedi came for her, she insisted they bring Elan too. They had been reluctant, but she had stamped her little four year old foot and refused to budge until they tested him, surprised to find him worthy, and took him along. The Jedi had tried to keep them separate, but somehow they always managed to find each other, get in trouble, cause the elders headaches, and later, work together. It was her fault he had been in the Order at all. But she had made it impossible for him to stay, and now she was alone. The thought of that sent a spike of rage through her. She needed to move, to vent. All this thought was just getting in the way. She charged forward headlong into the bush, on a tide of fury.

And there they were, a whole company of droids. They seemed as surprised as she was, and she felt her presence explode. All the pent up frustration came to a head, and she let it take over. Saber hissing, she vaulted into the air, straight into the midst of their ranks, and began to lay waste. The air filled with red streaks as the droids tried in vain to bring her down.

The clones followed. Some new energy seemed to have galvanized them into action. They emerged from the bush firing, not in a random panic, but controlled short precision bursts. A few well-placed grenades and the droids were in retreat. The clones followed like a landslide. Mirala could see the central droid tank, probably the source of the comm jammer. The were retreating further into the ravine.

Like a landslide… she thought. “Pull back, pull back!” she yelled. “Jenec, everybody pull back!”

It took a minute for her order to be processed, and slowly the sound of firing faded. “Stay here,” she commanded.

They weren’t going to get away this time. The anger she felt was in no way assuaged by destroying so many droids and sending them on the run. They needed to be annihilated. When she was sure every clone had retreated, she ran forward after the fleeing droids. A small part of her wondered why the droids fled. It was rare for them to do so, and usually only because a human agent so ordered it. But she had no time to consider nuances. There was work to do. She chased after the droids, reaching out and letting the Force lend its strength to her. A small part of her knew she was drawing on the dark side...always perilous for her. Yoda always said she danced too close to it. But she was beyond caring. She ran, she flew, over the ground and very quickly caught up. They turned at bay, and she could hear the whine as they armed their weapons. She laughed.

Reaching into the Force, she saw the terrain around her, the high steep and unstable walls of the ravine. A small nudge here or there would have done the trick, and brought the walls down on the droid army, but she wanted a cataclysm. She felt her presence expand outward and poured forth all the frustration and anger that had been building over the past few days. There was a sudden silence, then a feeling, a sound that started below hearing and quickly grew to a rumbling roar. Boulders began to rain down and the walls closed in. The droid’s computing could not cope. They began firing everywhere.

Mirala laughed again. “Mirala!” she heard, in her head, and in her ears, voices of horror and adulation. She ignored them both. Fury sent rocks flying and boulders sliding. There was a huge crash and boom, and she knew with a certainty that the droid tank jamming their communications had been destroyed.

Finally it was over and the echos faded away. “Mirala!” she heard again, many voices shouting. “Mirala Ne Dorn! Mirala Ne Dorn!” It was the clones. They gathered around her, and then knelt as one, presenting arms. “Mirala!”

A sudden fear shook her, and her fury faded. She had embraced the dark. She had used it. Against droids, to be certain, but used it she had. No! she thought. I can not do this! And there, somewhere in the back of her mind, was that presence again, the one that had been dogging her all this time. It seemed she almost heard faint mocking laughter. Then it was gone, and her sense of the Force flooded back, clear and pure.

Had the clones not been there she would have wept. Instead she closed her eyes. She thought of Elan, and felt shamed, and yet thought of him also calmed her down. She felt the fury fade. When she looked up again the clones were staring at her, and at each other. Unsure.

Slowly Jenec rose from his knees, and shook his head as if to clear it. “What are your orders ma’am?”

“Do we have communications?”

“Yes ma’am.”

“Then radio base, get our co-ordinates from the satellite, and let’s plot a course out of here.”

“Yes ma’am!” He sounded relieved to be back to business.

What was that all about? she wondered. One thing she knew, she had to get off this rock, and back to Coruscant. She was in serious danger, from herself. “Next flight out,” she said aloud.

“What was that ma’am?”

“Nothing Jenec. Just get us out of here.”

Are you talking about their obedience to Order 66 when it was issued, the Jedi Order's inability to sense the danger in time, or both?

The first, but I also eventually get into the second issue. There are two Jedi in the story, the second one left for a variety of reasons, one of which was the way the Jedi handled the war and how isolated they'd become from the travails of the inhabitants of the rest of the galaxy.

Reading this makes me glad I started my EoE campaign with Palpatine having his head removed by a rusty kitchen knife.

i like the chapter. i didn't intend to read the whole thing, but then found myself at the end.

it sounds (from the very brief JN blurb) like you explore this in much more depth than they will get into in TCW. certainly worth pursuing.

One of my players made a former clone character that refused order 66. Given genetic diversity it seems likely some 'aberrations' would not have complied.

I prefer the older explanation that the Clone Troopers were so conditioned to obey orders without really thinking about it that when they were given General Order 66, most of them simply compiled with the order. The lack of malice involved is what enabled the majority of them to catch the Jedi they were accompanying by surprise. In short, the analogy was made to having a very sharp knife; make it sharp enough, and the knife will cut anything whether you want it to or not.

In the case of Yoda, Commander Gree and that other Clone Trooper were far enough away that by the time they got close enough to the Jedi Master, they'd formed an opinion of the order, and in deciding to go ahead with it in spite of reservations they may have had (along with the massive spike of Jedi deaths that Yoda had sensed) gave the little green guy enough warning for him to prevent his own assassination.

it was also mentioned that the degree of "creative thinking" a Clone Trooper was permitted played a role as well. The rank and file troopers had very limited creativity afforded to them, while special forces units like the ARC Troopers and Clone Commandos had a great deal more latitude when it came to interpreting orders given the propensity for those soldiers to wind up in situations far outside their initial mission parameters. In the Darth Vader: Rise of the Dark Lord novel (taking place in the wake of RotS, written by James Lucano), Vader had to "discipline" (read: execute) a squad of Clone Commandos who balked at Order 66, because they thought that it might be an enemy trick and tried to get confirmation that the order was indeed legitimate.

It is possible that other Clone Troopers didn't comply with Order 66, but I'm inclined to think that most of those instances were ones where there wasn't a Jedi in immediate shooting distance, giving them time to consider the order and its implications, so that by the time there was, the Clone Troopers had come to decide that Order 66 was bunk or decided to side with the Jedi they'd been serving with for some time rather than obey a Chancellor they'd never met.

Okay, well, there's lots of reasons for both. Obedience first:

- Clone Troopers ARE genetically engineered for obedience, not specifically to Order 66 but to orders in general. Taun We says as much to Obi-Wan Kenobi in Episode II. This engineering is not as strong in purpose-bred Commanders and Commandos, and purpose-bred ARC Troopers are basically unaltered.

- All types of clones are also trained and psychologically conditioned for obedience, literally since birth.

- At first glance, Order 66 is hardly unique amongst the 150 Contingency Orders of the GAR. In fact, Order 65, if issued by the Senate or Security Council, requires the detainment of the Chancellor with lethal force if necessary. The only difference is that Order 66 can be issued by the Chancellor alone, and that it mandates lethal force in all cases. As neither the Jedi nor the Clones are known for their ability as lawyers, it's threat goes unnoticed and unappreciated, respectively.

- Finally, in the last year of the war Palpatine began supplementing Kaminoan clones with his own, bred in secret facilities near the Core with hyper-acelerated aging. These could have been manipulated by the Force or even Sith alchemy, as Joruus C'Baoth proved it was possible to do during the Thrawn Campaign.

Now as for how the clones could take down Jedi, it gets a little murkier. None of the following applies in EVERY case, but enough of them apply in each individual case to allow Order 66 to be incredibly successful:

- The GAR is one of the most capable non-Force-wielding militaries the galaxy has ever seen. Much of their doctrine comes from the Mandalorians, who are the only more-or-less conventional force known to defeat Jedi with any regularity.

- The Jedi Order is already stretched to the breaking point by war on a scale they have no experience with or training for, while the clones were literally born for this moment.

- The ability of Jedi to sense danger is mitigated by the constant threats to them. Also, many Jedi rely on being able to sense emotions to augment their awareness, while the clones have both incredibly strong discipine and are not attacking the Jedi out of hate or fear, so there is less to alert them.

- The clones have surprise, initiative, coordination, numbers, technology, and firepower on their side, while in many cases the Jedi were totally isolated, and were often relying on the very clones that slew them for protection.

EDIT: Welp, Donovan ninja'd me on about half of this. Stupid browser crashed three times while I as typing.

Deferring the responsibility for Order 66 to "They were bred for it" seems like a lazy justification for people who don't want to accept that their clone "heroes" committed what we perceive to be a pretty evil act. If the above idea is genuinely in step with the level of maturity that The Clone Wars has sunk to, then, well, I didn't realize that my opinion of the show could have gotten any lower.

Is it so hard to accept that a group of highly trained and disciplined soldiers were capable of obeying some pretty nasty orders?

Deferring the responsibility for Order 66 to "They were bred for it" seems like a lazy justification for people who don't want to accept that their clone "heroes" committed what we perceive to be a pretty evil act. If the above idea is genuinely in step with the level of maturity that The Clone Wars has sunk to, then, well, I didn't realize that my opinion of the show could have gotten any lower.

Is it so hard to accept that a group of highly trained and disciplined soldiers were capable of obeying some pretty nasty orders?

Didn't mean to leave the impression that I was making excuses for them. Whafrog was interested in the reasons behind the clones' obedience of Order 66. I tried to avoid bringing up materiel from EU sources (I know the Republic/Imperial Commando series is controversial for some). He asked about genetic engineering, and it is the only relevant factor explicitly discussed in the movies.

I know it's more complex than that, and personally I find the other details more interesting. The clones fascinate me precisely because of their complexity, as well as the moral ambiguity surrounding their creation and use.

Didn't mean to leave the impression that I was making excuses for them. Whafrog was interested in the reasons behind the clones' obedience of Order 66. I tried to avoid bringing up materiel from EU sources (I know the Republic/Imperial Commando series is controversial for some). He asked about genetic engineering, and it is the only relevant factor explicitly discussed in the movies.

I know it's more complex than that, and personally I find the other details more interesting. The clones fascinate me precisely because of their complexity, as well as the moral ambiguity surrounding their creation and use.

Please don't misunderstand- my comments weren't directed at you specifically. By and large, I agree with your post. It's just that there are a lot of prevailing ideas about the clones that just don't sit well with me. The first is that they're somehow "less than human" or "biological droids" and therefore have no (or little) inherent value as humans. ("Who cares? They're only clones.") This diminishes the gravity of the Jedi Order's decision to accept (and use) this army with no questions asked. The second is that their conditioning went so far as to deprive them of free will. This second idea removes any responsibility from the clones for the actions that they took. "It's not Captain Rex's fault that he murdered children in the Jedi Temple. He was just following orders programmed to do it."

I think there is a great deal of moral ambiguity to explore surrounding the creation and use of the clones. The Republic/Imperial Commando series is an excellent resource for that, Traviss' constant axe-grinding against the Jedi and mandophilia notwithstanding. In my opinion, however, suggesting that the clones had no "choice" as to whether or not they executed Order 66 only serves to skirt that moral responsibility that they all share. It removes moral ambiguity and excuses murderous acts so people can feel better about liking characters who did bad things.*

* Your opinion may vary.

One of my players made a former clone character that refused order 66. Given genetic diversity it seems likely some 'aberrations' would not have complied.

What stats did you use for clones? Did you give them any special abilities? I was debating doing static stats that the players can't change too much, and a special ability of something like Corellian's piloting, but with something more soldier (haven't decided a skill yet). What about force sensitivity? Are your clones allowed to take it? I haven't allowed mine to, and probably wont, as it's supposed to be a had it at birth thing, and the clones are not birthed in the traditional sense. In addition, I would think any abnormality would see them destroyed, and they are mentally far too young to "hide" it.

OP-

As others have pointed out- the first few batches of clones had virtually, free thought, so I don't know that genetic diversity would be a better option then what the requirements of their respective placements in the batches, and their careers (MoS) are. Certain careers would need more of an ability to make changes on the fly (to accomplish the mission, of course), then others. Commando's certainly require this, as well as platoon leaders, snipers, and a handful of others. Anyone in their intelligence communities too.

The cloners were rather definite in making the perfect clone, to the point where an extra nipple would see hundreds of clones (the entire batch), destroyed.

In regards to "moral ambiguity", I wouldn't think they'd need it. They have the brain of a 10 year old. Most of them are still questioning the concept of Santa Claus. In our courts, we wouldn't be able to take them to adult court, because they are incapable of knowing that capacity of right and wrong. (Not using the court for anything other then an psychological status/capacity argument).

The Clone Wars episode "The General" (and the connecting ones)- certainly shows the clones, including Rex, struggling with orders they believe are suicide missions. So at least we know that self preservation will give them pause. I would think they had the ability to question orders. However, they were told the jedi had betrayed them (the Galactic Senate/ Republic), and that is everything they were made to defend. That gave the clones an instant reason to dispatch the jedi. I think without that, results would have been a bit different, not in regards to the common clone, but for the commandos that had been with the jedi for long periods of time... cody/Obi, Bacara/Ki-Adi-Mundi, etc...

All said, right from wrong, is a adopted from the culture in which you are raised. What is right, and legal in the U.S., isn't in Arab countries. Just as stoning your wife, isn't legal in the U.S. Viking culture glorified death, thus vikings had no real fear of it. The clones were kept separated from everyone except their own... for the most part. Their culture is whatever they were told it was.

Clones make most jedi feel uncomfortable, because they are aberrations, morally wrong in so many ways, and the kid's brain too boot. Hence the why so many jedi treat them like cardboard cut outs.

Lastly, and correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the Jedi have to make a point of reading someone's emotions? If that is true, then the ideas that the clones disguised intention wouldn't be necessary unless one could argue why the Jedi would be doing a "random" check at that moment (most are in battle, or otherwise occupied).

It removes moral ambiguity and excuses murderous acts so people can feel better about liking characters who did bad things.*

Whaa-aat? That's quite a stretch to suggest such a motive. When I wrote the chapter in the OP, post E3, there were no likeable clones, and I had no need to invent a reason to like them. I just couldn't figure how somebody could hand over a lightsaber one minute, and start shooting the next. There was no confusion, no hesitation, which does suggest a less-than-human capacity for strict obedience. TCW softened that quite a bit...clones desert, contest orders, question their purpose, but when it came to Order 66, the vast majority, maybe all, of them complied. Seems like there's space in there for more than just "conditioning".

It removes moral ambiguity and excuses murderous acts so people can feel better about liking characters who did bad things.*

Whaa-aat? That's quite a stretch to suggest such a motive. When I wrote the chapter in the OP, post E3, there were no likeable clones, and I had no need to invent a reason to like them. I just couldn't figure how somebody could hand over a lightsaber one minute, and start shooting the next. There was no confusion, no hesitation, which does suggest a less-than-human capacity for strict obedience. TCW softened that quite a bit...clones desert, contest orders, question their purpose, but when it came to Order 66, the vast majority, maybe all, of them complied. Seems like there's space in there for more than just "conditioning".

Note the disclaimer at the bottom of my post. It wasn't my intention to put words in your mouth. I was simply stating some of the reasons behind such justifications that I've seen in other places.

You might not be able to understand the "hand over a lightsaber one minute, and start shooting the next," but that same situation happens with some regularity in Afghanistan, among other places. Afghan soldiers (most often Taliban sleeper agents) will be sitting in a meeting, joking, or eating a meal with American soldiers one minute, and shooting them the next.

Furthermore, obedience to an order without confusion or hesitation does not make one "less than human." Numerous studies demonstrate that this type of behavior is, in fact, very easy to elicit in us non-cloned normies. Were the subjects of Milgram's experiments "less human?" Methinks you've never been in the military, where immediate compliance is often heavily conditioned because the alternative could be catastrophic.

This is where we approach some nasty morally gray areas. We know that human beings are naturally inclined to obey someone with perceived authority. We know that soldiers are often conditioned to obey orders immediately. So what happens when an unethical or illegal order is given, and the soldiers obey? Who is to blame? The one giving the order? Is the soldier relieved of any responsibility because he was "just following orders?"

"Sorry about blasting all of those kids back there. Of course, it's not my fault. I was ordered to do it by General Skywalker."

To suggest that the clones had no choice in the execution of their orders is to excuse every evil act they committed, and it diminishes every courageous act. Every selfless act of valor becomes meaningless because they ultimately had no choice in the matter. Nevermind the fact that the biggest selling point of clones over droids was supposedly their ability to think and act creatively.

Worse, if the clones are "less than human" biological automata, then their lives are ultimately worthless. This undercuts a huge issue in the Prequel Trilogy, namely the fact that the Jedi have accepted this clone army without question, and used it without reservation. Rather than demonstrating how far the Jedi Order has fallen from the ideals it once held dear, it becomes essentially meaningless. What this does is it takes a very deep, morally gray area of the lore and oversimplifies it to a childlike level.

And please, don't take any of this personally. I'm referring to The Clone Wars TV series teaser you posted, not your fanfic specifically.

This is where we approach some nasty morally gray areas. We know that human beings are naturally inclined to obey someone with perceived authority. We know that soldiers are often conditioned to obey orders immediately. So what happens when an unethical or illegal order is given, and the soldiers obey? Who is to blame? The one giving the order? Is the soldier relieved of any responsibility because he was "just following orders?"

I understand what you're saying here. Honestly, when writing my story it hadn't occurred to me, but then I only wrote about 1/3rd what I'd originally envisioned. But I think you're over stating it. Acknowledging that a being is "flawed" doesn't mean they get a pass. Since you're including RL in your examples...in our society we expect people to know right from wrong by age 18. They are adults and responsible for their own actions. But that doesn't mean we can't acknowledge that a kid born to a crack ***** with a dad in jail is going to have a monumental challenge developing a strong ethical sense.

Putting their situation into context is important, not so they can be given a pass, rather that we can find ways to mitigate the problem.

To suggest that the clones had no choice in the execution of their orders is to excuse every evil act they committed, and it diminishes every courageous act. Every selfless act of valor becomes meaningless because they ultimately had no choice in the matter.

No, the Order 66 capacity was designed for a one-time override.

Nevermind the fact that the biggest selling point of clones over droids was supposedly their ability to think and act creatively.

Well, that would be a fitting "last laugh" for Palpatine, wouldn't it...?

Glad we're on the same page Yoshi!

Lastly, and correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the Jedi have to make a point of reading someone's emotions? If that is true, then the ideas that the clones disguised intention wouldn't be necessary unless one could argue why the Jedi would be doing a "random" check at that moment (most are in battle, or otherwise occupied).

It varies, depending on the abilities of the Jedi and the type and strength of emotion. But a strong feeling of anger, hatred, or fear directed at a Jedi is described as one of the easiest emotions for them to sense, even passively.

Obviously, three years of warfare against a largely droid army meant that the surviving Jedi had plenty of situational awareness, so this is a relatively minor factor, but for those Jedi not actively engaged in combat at the moment Order 66 came through (like Yoda), the lack of malice from the clones would have given them less warning than they might otherwise have received. Obviously, Yoda himself was sensitive enough (and/or Commander Gree felt enough guilt, he is described as being very loyal to the ideals of the Republic in some source materiel) to be alerted in time.

Like I said, one factor of many.