I ran my Dual Narwhals of Doom at the tournament this past weekend - 2x OGP with Adv Sensors and a few crew, and 2x PTL Sabers. It's done relatively well for me locally in casual play, but a lot of that can probably be chalked up to shock factor, because people have started getting a handle on it.

Here's the real problem I ran into, that has me ready to put it back in the box. It has no come-from-behind capability. Honestly, that undersells it - if you're down to just a shuttle, you're done. It's over.

My second game in the tournament was against a well-flown Chewie/Dutch/Blue list. I handled my Sabers badly, but the shuttles turned out a respectable amount of damage. At one point towards the end I had the Blue dead, Chewie down to 1 hull, and Dutch intact. On my side I was left with a single OGP left (with Rebel Captive) that had not been touched.

And that's what he had left when the game ended. I was never able to put guns on a target again. When a freaking Y-wing can wipe you out without ever taking a single point of damage, you've got a problem. It's not that just a weakness - it's a complete wipeout between two ships that are comparably pointed.

I've started down on the Shuttle, found something that kind of worked with it, but I'm quickly moving back into the "horrible" range. I know it's got its fans, but I don't see how having a quarter or even half the points in your list in the "If this is all that's left, you might as well give up" category is competitive. So, to all the shuttle gurus out there who defy convention by loving it: Am I wrong here? Is there something you can do when you're down to just the a shuttle facing... well, anything?

Well, my first question is as to whether you had Engine Upgrades on the shuttles. They're pretty much mandatory if you want any kind of maneuverability with them.

If i use a shuttle I generally make it so the opponent actually wants to kill it first, to draw fire off my other ships and to ensure i am not left with just a shuttle in the endgame. You can do this with either a FCS/gunner shuttle that is quite a damaging death beam if ignored or a cheap Vader shuttle that will all but kill itself anyway.

Some people may recommend the advanced sensors/engine upgrade shuttle but I have yet to try it to see if it can actually keep pace at all in a dogfight. You can mix and match this with the gunner/FCS or even Vader but at that point you are dumping so many points into a shuttle that I would rather just take a firespray personally.

When flying against squads with a shuttle I try to leave them for last whenever possible because of that very fact. Sometimes that doesn't always work due to available targets, or sometimes if a shuttle has vader i'm tempted to take it down sooner.

Even a shuttle with engine upgrade I'd leave for last as it's still takes a couple turns to completely turn around.

As Audio Weasel mentioned, Engine Upgrade is all but essential for this craft. Let's take the situation you found yourself in. You have a ship behind you. You move first.

Now, if you move 3 forward and boost, you will travel further than the distance of a range ruler. So, if they want to hit you, they have to move. If they don't, you can begin your turn by moving 3 forward than boosting on a bank. Follow this with another such maneuver and you will b across the map from them. Pull a two hard turn and your guns may well be on them.

On the other hand, if they've seen this before, they may know about this possibility. If you then stop, they will either bump you, putting you right back where you were, or sail passed you, at which time fun happens.

The other trick is setting up decision points. You need to put yourself in positions where they have to choose which way they think you are going to go. If they choose correctly, the status quo remains. If they don't you'll have enough time to turn around before they catch you. This is best when you have the ability to bank 1 and boost 1 in either direction. The amount of ground covered means that if they split the difference, they won't have a shot.

You're right, when you are down to a shuttle, even with engine upgrade, you are in serious trouble.

However, you might want to try a different Lambda loadout. I know you've seen chatter about:

OGP + FCS + Gunner + Engine Upgrade

32 points. It's really, really brutal. If they want to leave it for last, that's a mistake as it will deliver reliable, heavy damage the entire game. Flank with it. Never set up a shuttle in the middle of the map.

I know Lambda+Advanced Sensors has its proponents. I am not one of them. You lose a significant amount of firepower for the chance to turn a bit harder. Again, Engine Upgrade is critical here. However, it is not terrible and it does give you a few more movement options.

When a freaking Y-wing can wipe you out without ever taking a single point of damage, you've got a problem. It's not that just a weakness - it's a complete wipeout between two ships that are comparably pointed.

I agree with the general responses - one of the things I was realizing with the Narwhals is that the game turned on how well my Interceptors survived and performed - if they lived, the list did well. If they died early, either due to back luck or bad flying, I was toast.

One of the reasons I prefer the Advanced Sensors is that after trying several variations on shuttles, I've settled on cheaper being better - I just don't think the ship can't perform well enough to be worth 32+ points, nor can it outperform other options at that points level. If we compare it to a Bounty Hunter, the Engine Upgrade is a wash because you need it to have any prayer of manevuer but it still handles worse than the Firespray, and any firepower improvement from FCS/Gunner is offset by the number of shots you won't have.

I'll give that one a shot though and see how it goes. I have a fondness for underdogs, and I'd really like to see the shuttle work.

When a freaking Y-wing can wipe you out without ever taking a single point of damage, you've got a problem. It's not that just a weakness - it's a complete wipeout between two ships that are comparably pointed.

I'm no expert, but I was able to take down an undamaged Soontir Fel with PTL and Stealth Device with just a lone undamaged Y-Wing+Ion in a 1:1 endgame. Was a Y-Wing that much better than Soontir? No. Was I lucky? Perhaps. But there are more variables in combat than just point cost, and I'm sure you know that. SableGryphon has some great advice in his post.

Can it happen? Yes - but this is a fluke. It's either very bad flying on the part of Fel, or very bad dice.

The problem is that the other side is reversed. Barring very bad flying on the part of the Y-wing, it should demolish the shuttle very, very reliably. Holding up a fluke and saying anything can happen is all well and good, but once you get any fighter behind a shuttle, the game's basically over.

I agree with the general responses - one of the things I was realizing with the Narwhals is that the game turned on how well my Interceptors survived and performed - if they lived, the list did well. If they died early, either due to back luck or bad flying, I was toast.

Had that happened, Interceptors snipped at max range. Sort of made me wonder if just wedging the shuttle into everything first would work better since being alive at the end isn't useful (and they can take some hits). I've had decent games with them though if I can get them to take some fire off other things somehow.

Though beyond Shuttle herd silliness XWing seems geared for small scale dog fights at 100 pts. I would guess some wiggle room would let support ships shine easier.

The problem is that the other side is reversed. Barring very bad flying on the part of the Y-wing, it should demolish the shuttle very, very reliably. Holding up a fluke and saying anything can happen is all well and good, but once you get any fighter behind a shuttle, the game's basically over.

I think you missed sable's advice. The shuttle is toast if it moves predictably. However with the Engine upgrade, it does not need to move predictably. Stalls, or really long boosts, use the HP to suck up a hit or two and then do the unexpected and turn the tables. A shuttle can take a lot more punishment than a Y wing, and can deal out more hurt to boot.

The Great White Fins are support, pure and simple. Now IF they have a shot that lines up, yes 3(4) dice are nice to roll, but with a normal arc, alls anyone as to do is take down you attack force and work the supports after the fact. unless your in a shoot out with the HWK(with a broken turret), you maneuvers are few.

They have their uses, but its fairly easy to get behind them if its down to 1 on 1

One tactic that is t getting enough press with the shuttle is bumps. Ram that thing into other ships to stop its movement. Hell, chance an asteroid overlap if it will leave you in better position next turn. Also makes you a pain in the arse to follow. Fly through the asteroid to overshoot or overlap on one if you undershoot is a bad bad choice.

Also, the placement of the rest of your ships is vital. If they are ignoring your shuttle for last (especially vs. ties and interceptors) range 3 with evade and focus if you can get it in front of your shuttle is all win for you. Put on the breaks and let em blow by into the maw of Mmoooom!

It really boils down to never letting the shuttle be the last ship left unless you've got them now and are about to end them up close and personal. If you'll take squints and shuttles, you need to not fly your squints bad. Keep them on the move and do all you can to stay out of fire arcs, that is the best defense. Let your dog fighters, dog fight.

If they ignore the shuttle get into range then move slow and shoot as long as possible, make them pay for ignoring it. If they focus on the shuttle( s ) first, then just play them defensive, get shots in, make them bump you, and flank them with your squints, and as I said, dog fight. It doesn't matter if your shuttle falls, it should take a good amount of a beating before it does then, by then with any luck and good flying you've killed at least one or more of his ships.

They can oddly enough support each other well, you just need to fly hard with your squints and not allow your shuttle to be the last thing left alive.

Further if they follow your squints, you can use their movements to draw the enemy into fire lanes for your shuttle(s). Play it right and the shuttle might be able to follow them all the way around the board if you pull the ships tailing your squints in wide angles away from the shuttle, lead them on a merry chase. Yes it isn't the most stable battle plan, however it Is workable, fluffy and very fun.

I prefer to run my squints a bit extra skilled and tooled up, over quantity but I can see both ways honestly.