Dam said:

So you see Arkham Horror as a solo version of the Call Of Cthulhu roleplay game? Like having an Earthdawn board game and killing Vergigorm in a fight? Well ... technically speaking, even in the RPG it's possible to kill the Ancient Ones - you just have to prepare thoroughly *g*. But for me, the board game is another reflection of the stories, not of the RPG. I've played Star Wars RPG and Star Wars Minis and Star Wars CCG in my time, I see them all as different off-shoots of Star Wars - not as reflections of each other. In the CCG, Operatives were completely crippling (before they were errataed) but that doesn't mean that Operatives are the best in the Minis game. You can't take one philosophy from one game based on a fictional universe and apply it to another game based on the same universe. It's the current game that counts, not the previous one *g*.

And as I've said before, I agree that some players munchkin the game. But so what? That doesn't mean that you have to or that anyone even vaguely preparing for the Final Fight is doing so. I think the theme of the game is to save mankind by stopping the Ancient One - it doesn't matter how you achieve that, it's still a win. I agree that it's boring twinking the game to get maximum cash and just spend all game hoping fo get the best weapons - but that doesn't mean that it's an invalid strategy, I just think anyone who plays like that is missing out on a lot of what the game has to offer. But getting Blessed is just sound tactics *g*.

Dam said:

What would you do on your last turn, Dam, if you knew that this was the last turn because of Arcane Insight? You weren't winning, and the ancient one was going to wake up at the end of this turn? Would this change your "no preparation" rule at all? Or would you continue to collect clues in an effort to seal? Or do you just not use Arcane Insight?

MECCG for the win! My gccg isn't working properly right now...

flamethrower49 said:

I'll start at the end for this. I've used Arcane Insight in a game once, totally random draw. But as it happened, Kate Winthrop was also in this game. Suffice to say, made for a really boring 4 gates closed win (vs. Cthulhu IIRC). Never again would I bother with that crap. If I saw the writing on the wall, I'd probably grab Clues (except vs Tsathoggua, where it's useless). Most likely would try to hit Curiositie Shoppe and South Church BUT in both places (well Church vs Tsat is useless for special ability anyway) would take a random encounter. Going on a limb here, but it's my recollection that both locations offer an encounter that let's you remove a doom token from the GOO. Are there any others? Can't remember, but my goal would be to delay the final combat as long as possible. Naturally, if some investigator(s) had 5+ Clues at that point in time, they'd still dive in gates (which tends to result in some LiTaS devourings, but them's the breaks).

flamethrower49 said:

Totally! What's your nick on gccg?

We might be in danger of getting a little bogged-down here, but...

I don't think it contradicts the themes of the Cthulhu Mythos for the investigators to go up against an AO and triumph. Some of the Elder Gods in the Mythos are cosmic beings so vast and incomprehensible that it's impossible to imagine what their 'awakening' would look like. Azathoth, for example, is a bubbling mass of nebulous matter from the centre of time; it's not a big creature you can shoot at.

Cthulhu is though. Hitting him with a boat worked pretty well. Likewise, Armitage knobbled the Dunwich Horror just using good old-fashioned American know-how, and Titus Crow blew up Shudde-M'ell with an atomic bomb.

The truth is that most of the time, these creatures aren't described in precise enough terms to make it possible to assess how dangerous they are. That's sort of the point; once you move the monster out of the shadows and show everyone exactly what it is and how it works, it's less scary. Also, the Cthulhu mythos incorporates at least a dozen authors, most of whom weren't paying that much attention to each other (on account of living in different times), so it's not always that coherent.

Dam said:

Honestly, our group hasn't gotten a lot of mileage out of Kate/Arcane Insight. She has saved some games, of course, but it sure looked like the only way to win - and took some doing anyway. Ten move to travel from Gardner's Place to Historical Society was not easy. Casting the spell is a production, of course. Even with dedicated shopping, it can be hard to come up with the tomes for that. And that's if you draw Arcane Insight. I can hardly fathom a game with her where you're able to properly cast it from the start. It would be pretty boring, I suppose.

Needless to say, the majority of games won't have Kate in them, seeing as she's one of 24 (for you and me) investigators. When you draw and can cast AI in games without her, it can still be very useful. Obviously, you're not stopping all the gates, but a simple warning and possible delay of harmful things is very nice. Props to Jacquline, who can prepare to discard dangerous cards, and Mark, who can spend less time in gates that open on him.

I seem to recall you saying you cast Call Ancient One once. Surely that is the epitome of preparing for the Ancient One? Actually calling him into the game?

Cyberiad49. Yours? I'll look you up once I can get back on there. I've collected them happily since the game came out. It's rare I get an opponent. But I'm still optimistic.

flamethrower49 said:

I had an investigator with Mi-Go Brain Case in that game, so travel between say Uptown and DH didn't take that long. Additionally, Kate had a Tome and +1 Lore skill, so she was IIRC rolling 3 dice for AI and then getting 2 dice for each Clues spent on it.

flamethrower49 said:

Yep, it was against my nemesis Glaaki. Writing was on the wall, terror was up around 5 already IIRC, 2 of 4 investigators had Broken Hands. At that point the gamer in me wanted a draw over loss. I claim temporary insanity on that . Especially after checking the session log, I had Dexter Drake in that game (with Bob Jenkins and Wilson Richards having the Broken Hands, darn Gug actually beat all 4 investigators in that game). And it was with BGotW Herald, so Outskirt overflowing happened a lot.

flamethrower49 said:

I'm Dam pretty much everywhere. Boardgamegeek doesn't allow 3-letter nicks, so had to go with "Dam the Man" there. Did a /whois on that nick, got a "unknown user" message .

funny in my group I'm Dan and my friend is Stenum...

I always go for a seal victory and him gearing for the final battle lol he does try to seal early in the game but when things start looking bad he goes and gears up... so usally I try to make it so the AO doesn't wake up so I can laugh at his futile attempt to fight the AO... sometimes it works sometimes not...

So I'm confused, Dam... You think a final battle is a draw. You want to do whatever you can to make sure the Ancient One doesn't wake up, and you don't use Arcane Insight to help you out? ;-)

That's like not using Epic Battle cards in Final Battle! ;-)

Well, in regards to the thought of a Draw after the Final Battle, Millmaster used to say, (not exact) "Even if you defeat the Ancient One in the Final Battle, the town of Arkham was severly damaged in the fight, practically destroying the town."

When FFG first released Arkham Horror, they strongly suggested that Yig be the first Ancient One that new players should play against in their first game, with Nyarlathotep for their second game. Both were made "weak" as a way to give new players a decent chance of winning while they are still learning the rules.

johnwatersfan said:

AI in itself isn't bad or game-breaking. It's when combo'd with Kate Winthrop that things get out of hand. Can't recall how many AIs there are in the Spell deck, 1 or 2, but so far haven't drawn the spell more than once. It's a hard spell to cast, though it has benefits.

johnwatersfan said:

€50 is a bit steep for EB cards and 4 GOOs, at least for me.

Dam said:

Well then use EVERYTHING! The items are all pretty interesting, the characters are all great (just house-rule or remove the "broken" ones—Daisy's spell ability only works once per turn; Wendy can't be Deputy) and the Kingsport board is—while a bit thematically kooky—still pretty fun to use. Even if you don't visit it often—or at all—it will inflict pain upon your game. It's only boring if you send someone there early and never leave or trade out. Only go when it's starting to look sketchy.

The Guardians are neat. But not as fun as the Heralds.

Don't you want an epic Kingsport-Dunwich brawl?

€50 is a fine price for a board expansion, after all. If a newbie came on these boards asking if he should buy Dunwich or Kingsport, I'd recommend Dunwich—but only if he had to choose

I know we've deviated so far from the intent of this thread... but as long as we are here...

Tibbs, why do you think Wendy shouldn't be able to be the Deputy? Is it for thematic reasons? While thematically odd, it really doesn't seem to me like it's too game-breaking. She gets a gun, but she's not a fighter. She gets a salary, which looks the same on her as it does on everybody else. She gets a truck, which lets her go where she wants to. The way I see it, she can already get where she wants to, and waltz past almost every monster on the way there. Sure, it's easy for her to get, but it doesn't provide her with a huge advantage (that I see). Why your insistence that she shouldn't be able to get the title?

To the OP:

Yeah, Yig is easy. We haven't lost a game against him either. Somebody always loses their curse, or happens to go in blessed, and then they whomp him with the best of the weapons. He just doesn't pose much of a threat. I can see a game ending horribly, though, if the "replay start of battle" epic battle card is drawn.

flamethrower49 said:

Mostly thematic. But since she starts with an Elder Sign and three clues, and can free-sneak monsters to get to a gate, she's usually the first one to be eligible to be Deputized.

In other words: it's bad enough that a little girl can be deputized; what annoys me is that she's usually the most qualified.

Yes. Back on topic. Yig is the 2nd easiest to beat overall, and 1st easiest to beat in final combat. If you're not using Kingsport's Epic Battle cards, then you can just focus on preparing for battle, which mostly consists of getting everyone blessed.

If you've got the Epic Battle cards, then every ancient one is tough in final battle; Yig is just merely that much harder because sealing is so difficult.

My best recommendation is:

When the AO awakens, add 6 doom tokens. Subtract 2 for each elder sign on the board. Yig will be made proportionally more difficult than Yibb, as it is harder to seal Yig than Yibb. In fact, Hastur will gain more than his share of difficulty, and so will Atlach-Nacha. But he's hard enough, so it doesn't matter anyway; this is just about battle anyway

Tibs said:

I still don't get it. Wendy would be the last one to become the deputy in my games, since she doesn't take any advantages of the patrol wagon.
Using the wagon, she can get to any gate she wants, but she can do the same simply by walking there. And she can't evade monsters guarding the gate that easily.. so, all together, the wagon does about as much as her usual ability... or am I missing something there?

Paddy Wagon can be traded. And Deputy gig offers her a steady income.

Still doesn't make her a better deputy than anyone else...

Vitus_Prem said:

Tibs' point was that Wendy with 3 Clues + ES to begin with is a faster Deputy candidate than anyone else.

AH! Got it now... I usually tend to keep the elder sign for the last gate (or if thinks are going really bad), so she's just as fast as any other investigator starting with 3 clue tokens in obtaining a gate (and she's quite worse in gaining monster trophies... as long as she hasn't got any handcuffs with her).

On a side note, since my group plays with final scores, we usually tend to ignore the chance to become a deputy completely...