I think this should have been done sooner: Everything else follows the established naming scheme, but the Imperial Guard doesn't. It's not going to change anything since the common name will still be "Imperial Guard" (much like Adeptus Astartes and Space Marines), but there will be an enhanced fluffyness.
more like enhanced-due-to-legal-reason-and-copyright-applicable-branding reasons
The IIUP is funny but it makes no sense from an in-universe POV, in which Eldar for instance as very rare and so would not be mentioned. A real IIUP would spend all its time talking about human traitors, sin ce that is the primary enemy) and foul unnamed xenos.
Which is another way of saying that its target auience is not fictitious Imperial guardsman, but 40K players.
The IIUP is funny but it makes no sense from an in-universe POV, in which Eldar for instance as very rare and so would not be mentioned. A real IIUP would spend all its time talking about human traitors, sin ce that is the primary enemy) and foul unnamed xenos.
Which is another way of saying that its target auience is not fictitious Imperial guardsman, but 40K players.
In universe there are several versions of the IIUP which are made locally for the Guardsmen fighting in the region/crusade/whatever. This is because in some crusade where the enemies might for example be mainly Hrud and human traitors there is no need for a book about Orks, Tyranids and Eldar. So the IIUP has some common themes that are fitting for all regions but also much localized information. The IIUP which is for sale from GW has Orks, Eldar and Tyranids, but no Hrud, Loxatl, Tau, Rak Gol or other threats that the Imperium has also faced.
Which is another way of saying that that its target audience is the fictitious Imperial guardsman fighting in a battlefront where he is likely to face Orks, Eldar and Tyranids.
The IIUP is funny but it makes no sense from an in-universe POV, in which Eldar for instance as very rare and so would not be mentioned. A real IIUP would spend all its time talking about human traitors, sin ce that is the primary enemy) and foul unnamed xenos.
Which is another way of saying that its target auience is not fictitious Imperial guardsman, but 40K players.
In universe there are several versions of the IIUP which are made locally for the Guardsmen fighting in the region/crusade/whatever. This is because in some crusade where the enemies might for example be mainly Hrud and human traitors there is no need for a book about Orks, Tyranids and Eldar. So the IIUP has some common themes that are fitting for all regions but also much localized information. The IIUP which is for sale from GW has Orks, Eldar and Tyranids, but no Hrud, Loxatl, Tau, Rak Gol or other threats that the Imperium has also faced.
Which is another way of saying that that its target audience is the fictitious Imperial guardsman fighting in a battlefront where he is likely to face Orks, Eldar and Tyranids.
If it only features the xenos that have armies in the tabletop game, and none of the ones that don't, that's a screaming admission that it is specifically targeting 40K players and not actual Guardsmen...
I've been wondering about this news since it was leaked. Is it going to the be High Gothic name for the Imperial Guard or does it represent a more overreaching organisation, perhaps including Tech Guard and PDF. Until they announce it and put some official fluff out there I don't know.
If it is just the High Gothic name for Imperial Guard (which would be: *** magistro militiae according to google translate, so I can understand them not using that) then it's not going to change anything for us RP'ers. Next to no Guardsmen actually speak High Gothic and the game isn't called Imperial Guard.
It isn't like this is the first Codex to get it's name changed, after all. Adepta Soroitas used to be Witch Hunters and Sisters of Battle (the didn't use ), Grey Nights used to be Deamon Hunters. This is different in that it's an unknown phrase.
If anyone has ever looked for Imperial Guard mini's on eBay or other places you'll understand the difficulties when most of your results are some Napoleonic stuff. That must present legal difficulties. After all, it's not about phrases, words and ideas being used elsewhere it's about being used in the same media that it presents confusion. For example you can use Candy and Saga anywhere you want as long it's not in a computer game... because that company are d!cks.
If anyone has ever looked for Imperial Guard mini's on eBay or other places you'll understand the difficulties when most of your results are some Napoleonic stuff.
That is an excellent point that didn't come to my mind, actually.
It isn't like this is the first Codex to get it's name changed, after all. Adepta Soroitas used to be Witch Hunters and Sisters of Battle (the didn't use ), Grey Nights used to be Deamon Hunters. This is different in that it's an unknown phrase.
Though that's a bit different as the "... Hunter" codices were not just Battle Sisters and Grey Knights, but also Inquisitors and their retinue. The books had an overlapping, somewhat uniform Inquisition-focused theme, and the SoB in particular were only temporarily thrown into it to give the Ordo Hereticus Marine-level troops.
A third book called "Codex: Alien Hunters" featuring the Ordo Xenos and the Deathwatch was planned (mentioned in the WD Designer Notes) but ultimately never saw the light of day, and as we know the focus of the Sisterhood has reverted back to their Ecclesiarchal duties with the 5E White Dwarf Minidex.
There is the theory that the temporary Inquisitorial focus was solely the result of GW's own d100 "Inquisitor" project (the origin of the Deathwatch, originally conceived by GW as a way to deploy Space Marines alongside human characters).
If anyone has ever looked for Imperial Guard mini's on eBay or other places you'll understand the difficulties when most of your results are some Napoleonic stuff. That must present legal difficulties. After all, it's not about phrases, words and ideas being used elsewhere it's about being used in the same media that it presents confusion. For example you can use Candy and Saga anywhere you want as long it's not in a computer game... because that company are d!cks.
Hence why you add '40k' after writing Imperial guard."
Really, it's a legal mvoe to splat a copy right on their products, nothing more, nothing less. They'll try to cook up a way to explain it in the fluff, but it'll be pure BS no doubt.
Even if it is 'just a legal move, nothing more, nothing less', then it certainly does not merit the level of belligerence weighed against it by the fanbase. Thankfully, their is an in-universe explaination that meshes well organically with the update. So...the question remains is why there is so much vehemence against it?
Because
-it's a silly sounding name.
-It was never demanded or wanted
-In a universe where everything is going slow (bureaucracy, decisions, 'new ideas') the concept of having a cornerstone organisation, (the second largest, if not the largest no less) having a name change out of the blue like a bad PR move is ridiculous.
-We know it's because of legal reasons
-After price jacking every kits for years, rebranding a major big selling army for no solid reason is really a slap in the face to the consummer base.
To be fair, we can safely assume that any change towards a new name would be presented in a "it has always been called that way" manner. And I would admit that "never demanded or wanted" is not only subjective, but may also not be current anymore - several posters have already remarked that they simply did not consider that it is weird for the Imperial Guard to be one of the very few institutions that does not have a latin-sounding name, but that it might indeed be fitting for it to have one.
I'd say let's just see what time brings, and how they present this change (if it actually occurs and is not just another rumour). My opinion is based heavily on it being an alternate name for the IG rather than a replacement , for example.
I'd say let's just see what time brings, and how they present this change (if it actually occurs and is not just another rumour). My opinion is based heavily on it being an alternate name for the IG rather than a replacement , for example.
I agree, and I think it'll almost be done in passing: "The Imperial Guard are part of the vast Imperial war machine controlled by the Munitorum, all branches of which are collectively known formally in High Gothic as the " Astra Militarium ..." And with that, in one fell swoop, GW solve copyrighting/IP issues...
And with that, in one fell swoop, GW solve copyrighting/IP issues...
Welllll... not really - others would still be free to call their whatevers "Imperial Guard", and this
is
the more established name which the majority of the fandom will stick to - which is why I'm not sure I can buy copyright or IP infringement issues as the reason. Perhaps this bit was just made up by word of mouth, by players who were looking for reasons but missed the most likely explanation: "because the studio felt like it".
It'd be rather funny if all this hubbub and worry ends up being about a single line in the 6th Edition "Codex: Imperial Guard" that off-handedly mentions the latin name of the organisation in some small fluff box.
Though I have to admit, re-branding Codex:SoB into Codex:AS was a strange move. I mean, if they were somewhat consistent about all this, we should expect to see the next Marine book being called Codex: Adeptus Astartes, no?
Sometimes I think GW has a split personality. Either that, or they have deluded themselves into thinking that their current business practices will see the company continue to exist in another 20 years, when another generation of 40k gamers has grown up that has never heard of something like "Codex: Imperial Guard" or "Codex: Space Marines", but only their copyrighted latin names.
Edited by LynataTo be fair, we can safely assume that any change towards a new name would be presented in a "it has always been called that way" manner. And I would admit that "never demanded or wanted" is not only subjective, but may also not be current anymore - several posters have already remarked that they simply did not consider that it is weird for the Imperial Guard to be one of the very few institutions that does not have a latin-sounding name, but that it might indeed be fitting for it to have one.
I'd say let's just see what time brings, and how they present this change (if it actually occurs and is not just another rumour). My opinion is based heavily on it being an alternate name for the IG rather than a replacement , for example.
It still sounds stupid, though. Makes me think of the Adeptus Astra Telepathica more than anything. The Astra Militarium sounds like the military attachment to the Astra Telepathica, nevermind that if *anything* is going to be named the Astra Militarium, I'd expect it to be the Imperial Navy, not the guard.
It's double weird-sounding considering that you have the Adeptus Astra Telepathica, but the Astra Militarium is not an Adeptus (which makes in-universe sense, because the Imperial Guard was never an Adepta of the Adeptus Terra, it's a subdivision of the Departmento Munitorum, part of the Administratum - but it meshes poorly with settled naming conventions, if there can be said to be such a thing; if nothing else, it implies a naming convention that isn't - and shouldn't - be there).
Mhm. You have a point regarding the "sound", though this is just because we of the Old Guard (hah!) are used to there only being one name. The focus of the Astra Telepathica (I often omit the "Adeptus" here as well, though this is technically incorrect) lies on Telepathica, not the Astra - which means nothing more than "stars", and makes sense insofar as the majority of its members end up using their telepathic abilities to establish a communications network between Imperial planets.
In this sense, Astra Militarium basicaly means "space military".
There are also the Cardinals Astra of the Ecclesiarchy, by the way. Psykers never had a monopoly on this term.
I do agree that the Navy ought to have its own name as well, though it could just as well be " Astra Classis " to complement the Guard's new byname.
tl;dr: matter of habit - I can empathise, seeing as I am "stuck" on certain old/established facets of 40k fluff as well, but in this case at least it is not a replacement but just an optional alternative that we are essentially free to ignore altogether but is still "nice to have" somewhere in the background because it just makes
sense
. We've suffered and survived worse changes.
Space Marine actually is copyrighted by Games Workshop, and has been the source of contention between the company and others who have used the term before (Such as Director James Cameron in relation with Aliens, who was forced to change the marines into Colonial Marines).
Knowledge is Power! Guard it Well!
Edit: This is more along the lines of development, rather than a change for changes sake. They won't suddenly stop being Imperial Guard. They just will also have the high title of Astra Militarium as well.
Gw have tried to claim copyright on Space Marine a few times but haven't really been successful other than in a 'don't use the term or we will invovle you in litigation' kind of way rather than a 'Yes an actual judge has ruled we own this term' kind of way.
When movie companies etc have changed scripts it is just to avoid the former rather than being forced to because of the latter.
Actually Space Marine as either a copyrighted term or as a trade mark isn't owned by anyone. Wiki for example has got a long list of movies and literature and games which have used the term up to present.
Edited by Visitor QThere are birdies with pictures flying on the internet, with new Transport named Taurox, Militarium Tempestus Scions/Command Squad and online only Codex: Militarium Tempestus... as in Codex: Storm Troopers?
Here's the link Torog refers to:-
What an incredibly ugly vehicle! I rather like it...
Looking just at that link seems to me to suggest that Stormtroopers are now called Militarum Tempestus and that the Taurox is a Stormtrooper transport...
EDIT: Or maybe Militarum Tempestus refers to the military of the Segmentum Tempestus?
Edited by Lightbringer
It is listed as Militarium Tempestus/Astra Militarium Taurox, so maybe the Astra Militarium aka IG Codex is on other page which is not photographed? And yeah, Taurox is fugly, it is probably here to fill armored car niche. To play with words some more, is it an oxen version of Tauros?
Maybe Militarum Tempestus is a spinoff Codex? Like the Farsight Enclaves book is a spinoff for Codex Tau?
Yeah, Taurox is definitely a tracked armoured car, I agree, Torog. And you're right, there's quite possibly some Tauros/Taurox thing going on here... I wonder if there's a different configuration for the Taurox? Most GW plastic kits have two configurations these days...maybe a wheeled version?
Maybe Militarum Tempestus is a spinoff Codex? Like the Farsight Enclaves book is a spinoff for Codex Tau?
Given it is a digital-only release, that would seem to be the case. It's an interesting idea to give the Guard forces of the different segmentae more character - though probably still a bit redundant, given that the differences between regiments even of the same sector can be ridiculously large. Personally, I'd thus have rather seen a sort of "construction kit" for greater customisation of the standard regiments.
Still, it's an opportunity to shine some more light on famous individual regiments (= recruiting worlds) of the Segmentum Tempestus, so ... why not?
But, eww, the Taurox looks hideous. I've always defended GW's idea of the Imperial Guard preferring tracks over wheels, but ... really ... yuck!
But, eww, the Taurox looks hideous. I've always defended GW's idea of the Imperial Guard preferring tracks over wheels, but ... really ... yuck!
That Taurox looks totally like a 40k'd MRAP. For me, it is 7.5/10, would operate with. Now, I just need a squad of an Operator/Driver, an Operator/Vox, a Sarge and a Weapon Specialist/Dedicated Marksman and call in Avenger/Marauder strikes and/or artillery on everything that moves while riding a Taurox.
Maybe Militarum Tempestus is a spinoff Codex? Like the Farsight Enclaves book is a spinoff for Codex Tau?
Given it is a digital-only release, that would seem to be the case. It's an interesting idea to give the Guard forces of the different segmentae more character - though probably still a bit redundant, given that the differences between regiments even of the same sector can be ridiculously large. Personally, I'd thus have rather seen a sort of "construction kit" for greater customisation of the standard regiments.
Still, it's an opportunity to shine some more light on famous individual regiments (= recruiting worlds) of the Segmentum Tempestus, so ... why not?
But, eww, the Taurox looks hideous. I've always defended GW's idea of the Imperial Guard preferring tracks over wheels, but ... really ... yuck!
I think that Militarium Tempestus is dog latin translation of Stormtroopers rather than Imperial Guard/Astra Militarium forces of Segmentum Tempestus, but as there is nt much we know right now, your theory is also interesting.
Oh FFS...when will GW's legal dept. stop screwing over my army?..and Scions? What Storm troopers are now some sort of nobility?
Really, I'm half mad/half eager to read the fluff in the next codex just to see how much they flipped over backward to explain all the now trademark naming
a) "Astra militarium is doglatin" The imperial nobles (which make up the majority of Imperial Guard command and most if high ranking people in the Imperium in general) speak High Gothic (which is represented by doglatin) and therefore it makes sense for there to be a high gothic name for the organisation. This does not mean that "Imperial Guard" would not see any use, it would probably be the name that the commoners use, just like it is with Adepta sororitas aka Sisters of battle.
b) Storm troopers are referred to as tempestum militarium (see a) and as scions. Well, they are scions aren't they? The Mirriam Webster online dictionary defines Scion as: "a person who was born into a rich, famous, or important family ." The Stormtroopers -just like Commissars, Arbites and Sisters of battle- are orphaned children of Imperial officers and officials who had given their life in service to the emperor so that last bit seems accurate. Actually some of their parents might have been rich and famous as well.
Assuming this actually is about the Storm Troopers...
... I'm fine with giving the various organisations an alternate latin name. As mentioned before, one could argue that it was about time. However, I certainly won't bother memorising names for a hundred individual troop types such as "Astartes Assilio" or "Equestris Asper" or something silly like that.
And if this "latinisation" is not applied to everyone equally, we'd have a rather awkward inconsistency.
Sigh.